blundluntman
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Conn Smythe Tournament (Post 2000's) Round 1: 2003 Giguere vs 2011 Thomas
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JaegerDice
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blundluntman
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Usually don't insert my opinions too much in my own tourneys but I really like Giguere's season here, IMO it's probably the best or 2nd best Conn Smythe so far this millennium. Anaheim had no business making it to the Cup Finals in a bracket that included the Red Wings and Dallas Stars.
Here was his sv% in Each Round
vs Detroit: .964 sv%
vs Dallas: .936 sv %
vs Minnesota: .992 sv%
vs New Jersey: .911 sv% (he definitely fell off a bit in this round but still forced a Game 7 against a very good New Jersey Team where the Ducks didn't exactly bring their A Game).
Thomas had an incredible post-season and definitely has a top tier smythe performance, but Giguere was otherworldly
Here was his sv% in Each Round
vs Detroit: .964 sv%
vs Dallas: .936 sv %
vs Minnesota: .992 sv%
vs New Jersey: .911 sv% (he definitely fell off a bit in this round but still forced a Game 7 against a very good New Jersey Team where the Ducks didn't exactly bring their A Game).
Thomas had an incredible post-season and definitely has a top tier smythe performance, but Giguere was otherworldly
tabness
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Thomas for me, now if this was Thomas vs Giguere pads then yeah the lopsided vote makes sense lol
Thomas seems to get lots of flack now after the fact. Boston was a powerhouse for sure, but strictly defensively are they really much better than what Anaheim under Babcock showed during the 2003 playoffs? Especially with the rules massively favoring Anaheim as compared to Boston on what could be done to defend.
Plus like Detroit peppered Giggy from afar for most of those super high shot totals, Lewis did not adjust as well as Bowman might have to Anaheim's style. Minnesota was not any offensive powerhouse neither.
Thomas let in some bad goals that Luongo would save easily and looked very awkward doing it, but if we just judging by the evolving evaluation of technique, there are a lot of good goalies who got chirped. Hasek's the obvious one and Roy at the start of his career in the standup milieu was criticized for going down so early and just leaving the top open to "shoot high" as the common refrain went.
Lastly despite all the critiques of Thomas's ugly ass style (no question he is one of the GUMPIEST mofos to ever play goalie lol makes Stu Skinner look like a figure skater), the fact of the matter is, he at least didn't go all Michelin man.
copying what I wrote about Thomas 2011 earlier:
Mostly long range/low quality chances? Well not really against Tampa which clearly took advantage of the slower Boston defense and got a ton of chances in the house area. Is it a fair assumption that Montreal (which was the other team that scored more proficiently against Boston/Thomas) did the same, assuming they were the same type of speedy team from last year? Beyond that, perimeter shots were exactly what Giguere had to deal with from Detroit, and it isn't like Thomas could wear the equipment that Giguere did. I'm not sure how this could be held against Thomas (ignoring for a minute that it wasn't the case against the Lightning at least) and not Giguere.
Boston scoring a lot? Sure, that was needed against Tampa. It's quite clear that it was superfluous against Vancouver though. Hasek in 1999 had a ton of goal support as well, I'm not sure how it directly matters to his performance.
Luongo was absolutely right that the bad goal Thomas gave up in game five was no doubt an easy save for him, but Luongo also correctly noted that Thomas would make saves that Luongo couldn't.
Thomas himself straight up said after that season and playoff that goalie is the most team dependent position. Obviously, there's no doubt that Boston played a way to limit his weaknesses, but this is almost banal to the point of being a vacuous tautology. I'm not sure why Thomas is being singled out for being a beneficiary of his defense. Roy in 1986 literally had his both his coach and opposing players say how fortunate he was to play behind the Montreal defense, yet somehow his run is still considered legendary...
(oh and just to be clear I am not part of Thomas's militia or whatever lol
just feeling the points being raised here are super selective at best)
Thomas seems to get lots of flack now after the fact. Boston was a powerhouse for sure, but strictly defensively are they really much better than what Anaheim under Babcock showed during the 2003 playoffs? Especially with the rules massively favoring Anaheim as compared to Boston on what could be done to defend.
Plus like Detroit peppered Giggy from afar for most of those super high shot totals, Lewis did not adjust as well as Bowman might have to Anaheim's style. Minnesota was not any offensive powerhouse neither.
Thomas let in some bad goals that Luongo would save easily and looked very awkward doing it, but if we just judging by the evolving evaluation of technique, there are a lot of good goalies who got chirped. Hasek's the obvious one and Roy at the start of his career in the standup milieu was criticized for going down so early and just leaving the top open to "shoot high" as the common refrain went.
Lastly despite all the critiques of Thomas's ugly ass style (no question he is one of the GUMPIEST mofos to ever play goalie lol makes Stu Skinner look like a figure skater), the fact of the matter is, he at least didn't go all Michelin man.
copying what I wrote about Thomas 2011 earlier:
Mostly long range/low quality chances? Well not really against Tampa which clearly took advantage of the slower Boston defense and got a ton of chances in the house area. Is it a fair assumption that Montreal (which was the other team that scored more proficiently against Boston/Thomas) did the same, assuming they were the same type of speedy team from last year? Beyond that, perimeter shots were exactly what Giguere had to deal with from Detroit, and it isn't like Thomas could wear the equipment that Giguere did. I'm not sure how this could be held against Thomas (ignoring for a minute that it wasn't the case against the Lightning at least) and not Giguere.
Boston scoring a lot? Sure, that was needed against Tampa. It's quite clear that it was superfluous against Vancouver though. Hasek in 1999 had a ton of goal support as well, I'm not sure how it directly matters to his performance.
Luongo was absolutely right that the bad goal Thomas gave up in game five was no doubt an easy save for him, but Luongo also correctly noted that Thomas would make saves that Luongo couldn't.
Thomas himself straight up said after that season and playoff that goalie is the most team dependent position. Obviously, there's no doubt that Boston played a way to limit his weaknesses, but this is almost banal to the point of being a vacuous tautology. I'm not sure why Thomas is being singled out for being a beneficiary of his defense. Roy in 1986 literally had his both his coach and opposing players say how fortunate he was to play behind the Montreal defense, yet somehow his run is still considered legendary...
(oh and just to be clear I am not part of Thomas's militia or whatever lol
just feeling the points being raised here are super selective at best)
JackSlater
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Very easily Giguere. Without thinking about it too hard I'd say that Giguere had the best playoff run this century, or at least certainly the best among goaltenders. Thomas isn't close. Thomas let in five goals four different times against Tampa Bay in 2011, which usually would sink a team in any series, while Giguere let in 20 goals total through two rounds against strong Detroit and Dallas teams. To add for fun, Giguere only gave up 21 goals through three rounds. It's probably the best example of a goaltender (and his giant gear) carrying his team from the last several decades against an erratic goaltender carried by his team.
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Machinehead
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Giguere should win this whole thing. That Ducks team barely had any business being in the playoffs.
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Crazy that Thomas will easily lose this. He had an unreal run for the B's cup, but Giguere put up arguably the greatest playoff performance of the last ~30 years.
The Crypto Guy
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I Hate Blake Coleman
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Bruins4Lifer
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This should be a lot closer than the poll results are so far. Conn Smythes are earned in the Finals, not the first 3 rounds.
SCF stats:
2003 Giguere: 7 GP, 18 goals against, .911 sv%
2011 Thomas: 7 GP, 8 goals against, .967 sv%
SCF stats:
2003 Giguere: 7 GP, 18 goals against, .911 sv%
2011 Thomas: 7 GP, 8 goals against, .967 sv%
tabness
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It should be lopsided in favor of Thomas, too bad he didn't have them pads and a clutch and grab trap team and didn't get to face aging Detroit with no adjustment Dave Lewis, aging Dallas, and of course, the fearsome Minnesota Wild of 2003 that would try to bore you to death trapping.
18 goals in the finals lol, at least the Devils exposed the pads making the man.
Giggy got yanked in Dallas (who scored 13 of the 21 goals that Giguere let in for the first three series) whereas Thomas never gave up the net to a pretty good goalie in Rask.
Also not sure why Thomas is being blamed for empty net goals against, he gave up 5 twice to Tampa.
18 goals in the finals lol, at least the Devils exposed the pads making the man.
Giggy got yanked in Dallas (who scored 13 of the 21 goals that Giguere let in for the first three series) whereas Thomas never gave up the net to a pretty good goalie in Rask.
Also not sure why Thomas is being blamed for empty net goals against, he gave up 5 twice to Tampa.
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Voight
#winning
Thats debatable. Red Wings were the reigning champs in 2003, Stars were still in their competitive window and had some of the core guys from 99 still around (Turco was also arguably the best goalie in the league that year), Devils had been int he finals two years prior and still had many of the same key guys.
norrisnick
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That 63 save (20 saves in the 1st OT period alone) effort in game 1, was the most ridiculously frustrating game to watch.
Well you tend to give up more shots when you have terrible rebound control, and Thomas faced more shots per game than his goalie teammates at pretty much every level.
HFpapi
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If Detroit gets past Anaheim they probably win the cup that year and if Dallas gets by them they probably go to the finals. They had no business losing those series to the Ducks. Giguere STOLE them in the truest sense of the expression. Letting in 1 goal in a 4 game sweep in the WCF was the cherry on top.
A mediocre finals is the only thing stopping this from being the GOAT playoff run by any player ever. He should win this entire tournament though.
A mediocre finals is the only thing stopping this from being the GOAT playoff run by any player ever. He should win this entire tournament though.
How does a team get to the finals without winning the first 3 rounds?
Macheteops
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Well, you see here it doesn't really fit my guys narrative as to why his Conn winner had the better run
JackSlater
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What you say is true, and it would be interesting to live in a world where JS Giguere has the greatest playoff run of all time.
I Hate Blake Coleman
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And he saved a lot of those rebounds. And unlike Giguere, he wasn't outplayed in the finals which is when he was needed most.
Giguere was arguably the greatest goaltending performance of all time.
Anaheim had absolutely no business being anywhere near the finals.
Only 4 players scored at a 0.5ppg or higher and the leading scorer was 13pts in 21 games. The mighty Peter Sykora
Anaheim had absolutely no business being anywhere near the finals.
Only 4 players scored at a 0.5ppg or higher and the leading scorer was 13pts in 21 games. The mighty Peter Sykora
SillyRabbit
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Thomas had a way better team in front of him, including the defencemen.
This allowed him to overplay and cut off angles extremely well and make the net look incredibly small to shooters.
Giguere did not have that luxury.
Boston had the ability to win a series even if Thomas had a bad game or let in a couple bad goals.
Anaheim did not.
This allowed him to overplay and cut off angles extremely well and make the net look incredibly small to shooters.
Giguere did not have that luxury.
Boston had the ability to win a series even if Thomas had a bad game or let in a couple bad goals.
Anaheim did not.
TruePowerSlave
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Giguere is the only sensible answer
Behind a mediocre team and carried them all the way to the cup final game 7
1 goal allowed in the conference finals
Just an all-time level goaltending performance that will be incredibly tough to match
Behind a mediocre team and carried them all the way to the cup final game 7
1 goal allowed in the conference finals
Just an all-time level goaltending performance that will be incredibly tough to match
KevinRedkey
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Anaheim's leading playoff scorers (21 games) were Ruccin (7 goals) and Sykora (13 points).
Their top-4 was Carney, Salei, Ozolinsh, and Havelid.
The swept the #1 seed in the west (DET), who also happened to be #1 in goals-for during the RS. Giggy held them to 6 total goals in almost 16 periods of hockey where Detroit dominated a lot of it.
The guy was an absolute monster for 3 series in a row, and leveled out a little in the finals, but had already done enough to earn the reputation of having one of the best overall playoffs of all time.
Thomas was amazing but this is Giggy without hesitation.
Their top-4 was Carney, Salei, Ozolinsh, and Havelid.
The swept the #1 seed in the west (DET), who also happened to be #1 in goals-for during the RS. Giggy held them to 6 total goals in almost 16 periods of hockey where Detroit dominated a lot of it.
The guy was an absolute monster for 3 series in a row, and leveled out a little in the finals, but had already done enough to earn the reputation of having one of the best overall playoffs of all time.
Thomas was amazing but this is Giggy without hesitation.
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I'm going with Thomas, yes with some bias.
I don't recall Gigure's run as well as I do Thomas' but that Bruins defense was porous in the playoffs and their lack of foot speed was exposed in every series in '11. Their size was great when cleaning up rebounds and protecting the net but the odd man chances against and the number of times Thomas had to bail them out when the other team was transitioning into the zone with the puck was ridiculous. Bruins get bounced out in the 1st round against Montreal if it wasn't for Thomas' heroics.
I don't recall Gigure's run as well as I do Thomas' but that Bruins defense was porous in the playoffs and their lack of foot speed was exposed in every series in '11. Their size was great when cleaning up rebounds and protecting the net but the odd man chances against and the number of times Thomas had to bail them out when the other team was transitioning into the zone with the puck was ridiculous. Bruins get bounced out in the 1st round against Montreal if it wasn't for Thomas' heroics.
