Combine rosters outside the big 6 and tell me how they would fare?

[Namejs]

That's just not true. Denmark currently have more young talent (22 years or younger) playing in SHL, AHL and college hockey than Latvia.

The only fluke Denmark has is how on earth Andersen became so good. If you look at the goalie position, this is where Denmark struggles a lot. We just dont have any top tier goalie talents, at all.

Can you list those SHL/AHL/NCAA/etc. prospects? Also, 22 is somewhat arbitrary. You can just list everyone after Ehlers (1996), so that we can get a full picture.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Then I guess those fanbases are very easily insulted. Wouldn't bother me at all to imagine Sweden combined with anything.

No. You are being an elitist who thinks only certain teams rule the roost.

Obviously you care nothing about growing the game and only want certain countries to play each other.

 

[EK47]

I agree with you on everything but Denmark. Denmark has a flukey amount of top-end forwards, which is not indicative of the quality of their overall progamme or their depth. Once their generations change and the older guys retire, there won't be a bunch of Ehlers coming up. Latvia has more depth, Denmark has more top-end talent, but they're pretty much on par.

The top end talent Denmark has isn’t developed in the danish program for the most part, because they don’t really have one: Ehlers, Switzerland - Boedker, Sweden - Andersen, Sweden - Eller, Sweden - Nielsen, Sweden - Russell, Sweden. All active Danish NHLers except for Björkstrand except for one played a main part of their junior career abroad.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Czechs aren't "going more and more down", it's nonsense. Though still not particularly good, our situation is certainly better than 5 or 10 years ago. The weakest spot is obviously defense, there's only one player about whom I have little doubt that he's going to become a Top 4 D on his team in the NHL (Hronek), then Hájek, who by all accounts should have a very good shot of becoming a long-term NHL defenseman sooner or later. Then there's a grey zone of players who can make it to the NHL one day but who knows really (the likes of Zbořil, Mašín, Galvas...). Not an amazing pool but much better than in early 2010's when we had close to no one.

On offense, it's much better. Quite a few forwards between 17 - 21 years of age with a very realistic Top 6 potential: Nečas, Zadina, Chytil, Kaut, even the 2020 eligible Myšák and Pytlík, and possibly a few others. We also seem to have a ton of goaltending prospects. Lukáš Dostál, for instance, looks very promising though you never know with goalies.

 

[Elvs]

Czech's have clearly turned things around. Between 2008 and 2013 (six drafts) they only had two players drafted in the 1st round. In three of those drafts they had no player picked until the 3rd round, including one draft (2013) where their top pick was selected late in the 4th round.

Since 2014 they've had eight kids selected in the 1st round and another five picked in the 2nd.

 

[Namejs]

The top end talent Denmark has isn’t developed in the danish program for the most part, because they don’t really have one: Ehlers, Switzerland - Boedker, Sweden - Andersen, Sweden - Eller, Sweden - Nielsen, Sweden - Russell, Sweden. All active Danish NHLers except for Björkstrand except for one played a main part of their junior career abroad.

I'm aware of that. It wasn't really a question of whether their players are homegrown or not, the question is if they have more/higher quality U23 players

 

[NyQuil]

The Swiss play such a great system and team game that their team is certainly stronger than the parts it is comprised of.

It's very impressive - they always play Canada tough.

So their team ranking is probably higher than their talent ranking.

 

[gwh]

BTW Czechia changed the name recently.

 

[Namejs]

That's just not true. Denmark currently have more young talent (22 years or younger) playing in SHL, AHL and college hockey than Latvia.

The only fluke Denmark has is how on earth Andersen became so good. If you look at the goalie position, this is where Denmark struggles a lot. We just dont have any top tier goalie talents, at all.

Still waiting for those players.

 

[AB13]

That’s a gold contender there.

Btw, Switzerland is on par with Czech Republic, in my opinion

Switzerland is close to being on par with Finland too

 

[Jakk123]

Switzerland is close to being on par with Finland too

How so? I mean, they are very well capable of playing with anyone at the WC and they definitely can medal, but in terms of producing players, the gap between Finland/Czech Republic and Switzerland is still apparent. All you have to do is look at the numbers of drafted players. NHL player counts are still not close. However, Switzerland has definitely overtaken Slovakia in every aspect and they are on the right track to get even better.

 

[slovakiasnextone]

Switzerland is close to being on par with Finland too

I don't get hfboards tendency to underrate Finland and overrate Switzerland?

The Finns competed for medals regularly even in years when they had bad years in terms of player development.

Now they also have the top end talent.

NHL players
41 Finns > 13 Swiss

Finns had around 30 players drafted in top 100 in the last three drafts alone, Swiss have only 14 in the last 11 drafts.

Finland last 5 years in WC
2018 5th
2017 4th
2016 2nd SILVER
2015 6th
2014 2nd SILVER

Finland in last 5 WJCs
2019 1st GOLD
2018 6th
2017 9th
2016 1st GOLD
2015 7th

Finland in last 5 u18s
2019 7th
2018 1st GOLD
2017 2nd SILVER
2016 1st GOLD
2015 2nd SILVER

Switzerland in the last 5 WCs
2018 2nd SILVER
2017 6th
2016 11th
2015 8th
2014 10th

Switzerland in the last 5 WJCs
2019 4th
2018 8th
2017 7th
2016 9th
2015 9th

Switzerland in last 5 u18s
2019 9th
2018 9th
2017 8th
2016 8th
2015 4th

Switzerland can beat Finland in a game, but they are not close to Finland at all.

 

[AB13]

I don't get hfboards tendency to underrate Finland and overrate Switzerland?

The Finns competed for medals regularly even in years when they had bad years in terms of player development.

Now they also have the top end talent.

NHL players
41 Finns > 13 Swiss

Finns had around 30 players drafted in top 100 in the last three drafts alone, Swiss have only 14 in the last 11 drafts.

Finland last 5 years in WC
2018 5th
2017 4th
2016 2nd SILVER
2015 6th
2014 2nd SILVER

Finland in last 5 WJCs
2019 1st GOLD
2018 6th
2017 9th
2016 1st GOLD
2015 7th

Finland in last 5 u18s
2019 7th
2018 1st GOLD
2017 2nd SILVER
2016 1st GOLD
2015 2nd SILVER

Switzerland in the last 5 WCs
2018 2nd SILVER
2017 6th
2016 11th
2015 8th
2014 10th

Switzerland in the last 5 WJCs
2019 4th
2018 8th
2017 7th
2016 9th
2015 9th

Switzerland in last 5 u18s
2019 9th
2018 9th
2017 8th
2016 8th
2015 4th

Switzerland can beat Finland in a game, but they are not close to Finland at all.

Fair enough, I was only talking about this years WC rosters though, Finland are obvioulsy a larger hockey nation

 

[AB13]

How so? I mean, they are very well capable of playing with anyone at the WC and they definitely can medal, but in terms of producing players, the gap between Finland/Czech Republic and Switzerland is still apparent. All you have to do is look at the numbers of drafted players. NHL player counts are still not close. However, Switzerland has definitely overtaken Slovakia in every aspect and they are on the right track to get even better.

I was only talking about the rosters in this years WC, as a hockey nation the finns are obviously still larger

 

[NoMessi]

The top end talent Denmark has isn’t developed in the danish program for the most part, because they don’t really have one: Ehlers, Switzerland - Boedker, Sweden - Andersen, Sweden - Eller, Sweden - Nielsen, Sweden - Russell, Sweden. All active Danish NHLers except for Björkstrand except for one played a main part of their junior career abroad.

To be honest this is not my experience at all. I have played tournaments in Rodovre and all 4 age groups ive played have had good quality. 88-91 (Bödker, Eller and Lauridsen x2) was pretty good teams and could easily compare to a team like Malmo.

They were all standout players even at a young age, so im not sure Frolunda can get all the credit for their success.

 

[Bagge]

That's just not true. Denmark currently have more young talent (22 years or younger) playing in SHL, AHL and college hockey than Latvia.

The only fluke Denmark has is how on earth Andersen became so good. If you look at the goalie position, this is where Denmark struggles a lot. We just dont have any top tier goalie talents, at all.

The goalies are coming. Andersens arrival in NHL have made a lot of young people want to be a goalie. Mads Søegaard being the first one of many to most likely be drafted in the coming years.

 

[Bagge]

The top end talent Denmark has isn’t developed in the danish program for the most part, because they don’t really have one: Ehlers, Switzerland - Boedker, Sweden - Andersen, Sweden - Eller, Sweden - Nielsen, Sweden - Russell, Sweden. All active Danish NHLers except for Björkstrand except for one played a main part of their junior career abroad.

You make it sound like Swedish clubs take a bunch of Danish youth and train them from scratch.

The youth program in both Herning, Vojens and Rødovre are known for their seriousness. Rødovre reguarly wins tournaments in Sweden in the U11-U15, which is why they get so many juniors after in the Swedish leagues. I would assume it is the same with Herning and other Danish clubs. It is true that most juniors will leave Denmark to play in either Sweden or NA, because of the lack of competitive surroundings, but they are getting there because of the youth program in Denmark.

 

[Speyer]

I was only talking about the rosters in this years WC, as a hockey nation the finns are obviously still larger

I would argue we cleary have a better roster than Finland on paper this year. As far as the whole programm goes the Finns are probably rather increasing their lead on us rather than we are catching up to them...

 

[AB13]

I would argue we cleary have a better roster than Finland on paper this year. As far as the whole programm goes the Finns are probably rather increasing their lead on us rather than we are catching up to them...

Yeah your roster might be better this year, it is close. I would say you are catching up to Finland because you reguraly manage to produce better defencemen.

 

[Speyer]

Yeah your roster might be better this year, it is close. I would say you are catching up to Finland because you reguraly manage to produce better defencemen.

After Josi we only managed to produce Kukan, Mueller and Siegenthaler as defenceman at the NHL level. Now I like those guys but I dont think they are as good as the likes of Heiskannen, Jokahariu or even Juolevi. I hope you are right though for our sake; time will tell.

 

[slovakiasnextone]

After Josi we only managed to produce Kukan, Mueller and Siegenthaler as defenceman at the NHL level. Now I like those guys but I dont think the are as good as the likes of Heiskannen, Jokahariu or even Juolevi. I hope you are right though for our sake; time will tell.

Are there any upcoming good Swiss D-men in the junior program?

I remember when everyone thought Phil Baltisberger would be a great one, though obviously he didn't work out.

 

[EK47]

To be honest this is not my experience at all. I have played tournaments in Rodovre and all 4 age groups ive played have had good quality. 88-91 (Bödker, Eller and Lauridsen x2) was pretty good teams and could easily compare to a team like Malmo.

They were all standout players even at a young age, so im not sure Frolunda can get all the credit for their success.

Surely, but I don’t think many of them would’ve ever made the NHL without the help of for example the swedish system, the main purpose of my post was to suggest that maybe Latvia for example doesn’t have as much NHL talent as Denmark because their prospects have less possibilities of playing junior hockey abroad. Maybe ”the most part” is a bit misleading, the talent still has to come from somewhere, but I don’t think its at all weird to suggest that after a certain point the swedish system is probably better at handling high end prospects.

 

[Speyer]

Are there any upcoming good Swiss D-men in the junior program?

I remember when everyone thought Phil Baltisberger would be a great one, though obviously he didn't work out.

Janis Moser, who played well in this tournament before he got injured and Tim Berni (both 2000) are generally consired to have NHL upside (not for the top pairing though). Noah Délemont (2002) has been heralded as the best d-prospect out of Switzerland of the last few years. He is a great skater and playmaker with good defensive IQ but has quite a few red flags as well (mainly being undersized and having a weak shot.) Giancarlo Chanton (2002) seems to be in pretty high regard of the federation as well, but I havent seen enough of him to have a viable oppinion.

Baltisberger seems to have stagnated in the last few years but I don't think he was really considered to have really high end upside as a prospect as far as I remember.

 

[AB13]

After Josi we only managed to produce Kukan, Mueller and Siegenthaler as defenceman at the NHL level. Now I like those guys but I dont think they are as good as the likes of Heiskannen, Jokahariu or even Juolevi. I hope you are right though for our sake; time will tell.

Finland have a very low amount of NHL level defensemen, and from what I have heard you have good defensive prospects coming up, which Finland don't.

 

[Namejs]

Surely, but I don’t think many of them would’ve ever made the NHL without the help of for example the swedish system, the main purpose of my post was to suggest that maybe Latvia for example doesn’t have as much NHL talent as Denmark because their prospects have less possibilities of playing junior hockey abroad. Maybe ”the most part” is a bit misleading, the talent still has to come from somewhere, but I don’t think its at all weird to suggest that after a certain point the swedish system is probably better at handling high end prospects.

It's actually the other way around. Denmark keeps a lot more of their talent at home, while Latvian kids have been honing their skills abroad since forever, which makes the Latvian hockey system more efficient than the Danish one.

So you've got it all wrong, I'm afraid.