Proposal: Columbus - Tampa Bay

[FireGorton]

An honest and knowledgeable Tampa fan would admit they’d waive Killorn if they knew he’d be picked up. Just getting his $4.45mm off the books without any retention or costing a sweetener is a win at this point. Tampa can also win without him.

I know but Tampa fans keep overvaluing their players. Guy said on here that Rangers should trade Laf and Fox for Cirelli would be a fair deal citing Blake Coleman trade as an example...... He couldn’t comprehend the difference from desperate for a cup from a hockey trade. Tampa was getting a cheap bottom 6 forward for 2 years. Any team trading for Cirelli will have to trade good assets and pay him a minimum of 5.5 on a bridge deal. They also forget how COVID is affecting owners bottomline next season as well along with many teams not having cap space for him. It’s easy to offer sheet him for a 2nd. Tampa matches they have to clear cap.

 

[FireGorton]

Yes, it's possible Stamkos goes on LTIR to provide Tampa the room they need. Your trade proposal is advantageous for Tampa but not out of the realm of possibility with some tweaks. If Tampa added a 3rd or 4th, and Columbus took out either the 2nd or Hjorth there could be something there. As some have posted, it seems that Brisebois hasn't been interested in moving Killorn but that could change after Hoffman signs. Most likely they go the LTIR route in a short season with Stamkos, or they end up paying the 1st and change to move Johnson, plus move Paquette and Coburn for, after factoring in replacements and adding in what they have now, around 8.5 to 9 million. Depending on what deals are being discussed with the RFA'S, something could work with 2 year deals that seem more common with the current climate. Tampa may start the year with 21 if necessary, and if Stamkos does go on ltir, then 22 or 23 could be possible as well.

If Stamkos goes on IR it means the league is letting Tampa circumvent the cap. We saw him play during SCF. I don’t blame Tampa considering the league allows them to take advantage of tax loophole which allowed Tampa to offer 3 million less than Toronto did for Stamkos. Shame Tampa isn’t a “big market” or league would be all over that loophole

 

[JTBF81]

If Stamkos goes on IR it means the league is letting Tampa circumvent the cap. We saw him play during SCF. I don’t blame Tampa considering the league allows them to take advantage of tax loophole which allowed Tampa to offer 3 million less than Toronto did for Stamkos. Shame Tampa isn’t a “big market” or league would be all over that loophole

Stamkos could easily be on LTIR depending when the season starts and if there's any setback with his rehab. Ah yes, the 2:47 he played in one game in the SCF where he tore his core muscle again, you mean that game...Since then he has once again had a procedure to repair the injury for a 2nd time and so, while a full recovery is expected, it was last time as well. There will be no circumvention, if LTIR is required for Stamkos, it will just be Tampa once again intelligently doing what they need to do to ice a strong contender.

 

[Fogelhund]

Stamkos could easily be on LTIR depending when the season starts and if there's any setback with his rehab. Ah yes, the 2:47 he played in one game in the SCF where he tore his core muscle again, you mean that game...Since then he has once again had a procedure to repair the injury for a 2nd time and so, while a full recovery is expected, it was last time as well. There will be no circumvention, if LTIR is required for Stamkos, it will just be Tampa once again intelligently doing what they need to do to ice a strong contender.

Your GM states he will be ready... and yet, a bunch of fans say no??? Has there been an update from the team since this?

Last updated 10/1/20
Tampa Bay Lightning superstar Steven Stamkos missed 24 of 25 playoff games during the team's Stanley Cup title run, but general manager Julien BriseBois told reporters on Wednesday that the 30-year-old center should be good to go whenever the 2020-21 season starts.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

Your GM states he will be ready... and yet, a bunch of fans say no??? Has there been an update from the team since this?

Last updated 10/1/20
Tampa Bay Lightning superstar Steven Stamkos missed 24 of 25 playoff games during the team's Stanley Cup title run, but general manager Julien BriseBois told reporters on Wednesday that the 30-year-old center should be good to go whenever the 2020-21 season starts.

This is from the 10th of October same place from October 1st article.
Report: Lightning's Stamkos undergoes surgery

 

[cslebn]

Man you have some serious interest vested here for not being a fan of either team.

 

[FireGorton]

This is from the 10th of October same place from October 1st article.
Report: Lightning's Stamkos undergoes surgery

So Stamkos is done for next season? If he returns it means Tampa would still have cap problems during the season. Some Tampa fans think core muscle surgery means out for a season but why would the GM shop him if he is injured. I doubt he passes the physical if he’s that bad and very good chance he returns at some point during 20/21 season which means a team needs 8.5 in cap space.....

 

[Maurice of Orange]

Man you have some serious interest vested here for not being a fan of either team.

Not sure if you were addressing me or another poster but it gets kinda redundant following one team in the offseason, I try to pick up knowledge from other knowledgeable posters about their teams and I read a lot about other teams and other leagues and watch other teams games, I’m a fan of the game but I do have one favorite team.

I’m on the east coast so I don’t have as good of an understanding about the pacific teams but I do try to catch games when they are on if it’s not too late.

I see a lot of minor trades where most people don’t know a certain player at all, I try to follow every team to a certain extent but it’s impossible to catch every game and follow everything that goes on during a season on a nightly basis.

 

[Fogelhund]

This is from the 10th of October same place from October 1st article.
Report: Lightning's Stamkos undergoes surgery

Your article says...

According to The Athletic, the team expects Stamkos will make a full recovery before the start of the 2020-21 season.

 

[Fogelhund]

So Stamkos is done for next season? If he returns it means Tampa would still have cap problems during the season. Some Tampa fans think core muscle surgery means out for a season but why would the GM shop him if he is injured. I doubt he passes the physical if he’s that bad and very good chance he returns at some point during 20/21 season which means a team needs 8.5 in cap space.....

No, he's expected back for the start of the season.

According to The Athletic, the team expects Stamkos will make a full recovery before the start of the 2020-21 season.

 

[FireGorton]

No, he's expected back for the start of the season.

According to The Athletic, the team expects Stamkos will make a full recovery before the start of the 2020-21 season.

I know but Tampa fans insist he could be put on LTIR

 

[PettersonHughes]

I wonder if CBJ could poach Cirelli's RFA rights? With solid two-way centers in Dubois and Koivu that would be a strong defensive core built for the post-season. That or poach Sergachev to have a top-4 of Werenski - Jones, Sergachev - Savard. Either way I doubt TB could do much of anything to retain their player

 

[Dr Danglefest]

What? I think you just have a really poor opinion on Killorn because he is an excellent person and great locker room leader. He is also a Players Association representative.

he probably has that opinion because as a fan of any team other than Tampa the viewer sees a player that plays like a dirtbag...every team has them, my team has one of the best in the game in Marchand

 

[Dr Danglefest]

I need a reality check? No I don't think I do.

Plenty of teams have 4.45M cap or more; Dallas, Nashville, Columbus (yes they do), Boston, Florida, St. Louis, NYR, and Winnipeg. I didnt even include the bottom feeder teams.

Then there are teams that would move an overpaid vet out with 1 year remaining to make the cap space for a Killorn caliber player.

Who exactly is "Team X?" are you talking about when the Rangers paid to move Marc Staal? You realize Staal is hardly NHL caliber right? Killorn is a top 6 winger on nearly every NHL team in the league. His contract is more than fair and 3 years works out perfectly with the next cap raise.

your reply wasn’t to me but I’d like to point out you are leaving out key RFAs to make that list work

columbus has 9 mil to sign PLD, let’s say PLD gets 6? Seems relatively conservative they are left with 3 mil or close to it, I doubt they have interest in going into the season with no cap space

Boston has 6.6 it’s Debrusk to sign, so they’ll had anywhere between 3-1 mil in space

Dallas, I know your post was before Hintz’s contract but that’s something you should have seen coming and falls in line with the other examples, they have 200K cap space

Nashville is the first realistic option on this list

Florida has some room as well

blues have literally no cap space

Rangers have just enough 4.8 but A) why use it all on Killorn and B) have several key RFAs in next two years which Killorn will take up space during


Jets also have no cap space

TLDR

your list isn’t accurate only Nashville or Florida could fit him without making moves detrimental to their roster, otherwise it’s a bottom feeder who isn’t goin to be in the market to give up assets to take on a 30+ year old forward

your options are quite limited in that sense which in theory drives up the price to unload him not drive up his trade value in a positive sense

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

your reply wasn’t to me but I’d like to point out you are leaving out key RFAs to make that list work

columbus has 9 mil to sign PLD, let’s say PLD gets 6? Seems relatively conservative they are left with 3 mil or close to it, I doubt they have interest in going into the season with no cap space

Boston has 6.6 it’s Debrusk to sign, so they’ll had anywhere between 3-1 mil in space

Dallas, I know your post was before Hintz’s contract but that’s something you should have seen coming and falls in line with the other examples, they have 200K cap space

Nashville is the first realistic option on this list

Florida has some room as well

blues have literally no cap space

Rangers have just enough 4.8 but A) why use it all on Killorn and B) have several key RFAs in next two years which Killorn will take up space during


Jets also have no cap space

TLDR

your list isn’t accurate only Nashville or Florida could fit him without making moves detrimental to their roster, otherwise it’s a bottom feeder who isn’t goin to be in the market to give up assets to take on a 30+ year old forward

your options are quite limited in that sense which in theory drives up the price to unload him not drive up his trade value in a positive sense

You are not factoring in LTIR;
Columbus has Nyquist out for 6 months and Dubinsky is done for the year
Dallas as both Seguin and Bishop out until March and April respectively
Blues has Tarasenko out until April and Steen also out long term
Jets have Little out for the entire season.
Boston has a lot of unknowns on Pasta and Marchand

 

[Dr Danglefest]

You are not factoring in LTIR;
Columbus has Nyquist out for 6 months and Dubinsky is done for the year
Dallas as both Seguin and Bishop out until March and April respectively
Blues has Tarasenko out until April and Steen also out long term
Jets have Little out for the entire season.
Boston has a lot of unknowns on Pasta and Marchand

for this season perhaps but what about the 2 years after that are left on Killorns deal?

 

[McJedi]

You are not factoring in LTIR;
Columbus has Nyquist out for 6 months and Dubinsky is done for the year
Dallas as both Seguin and Bishop out until March and April respectively
Blues has Tarasenko out until April and Steen also out long term
Jets have Little out for the entire season.
Boston has a lot of unknowns on Pasta and Marchand

So what happens in March when it’s halfway thru the season and these guys are ready to return? Deadline may or may not have passed? It’s risky for any team.

here is an honest question for Tampa fans. If Tampa could waive Killorn today and know with certainty he’d be claimed, would you do it? What about a month from now with no movement on your RFAs and training camps on the horizon. It’s safe to say we’re in the dead of offseason so probably very few roster moves will be made between now and the time the nhl decides to pick a start date.

would Tampa give away Killorns 4.45mm cap hit for no return but also no retention?

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

for this season perhaps but what about the 2 years after that are left on Killorns deal?

All those teams have some fairly major contracts coming off the books next year. Plus there is the expansion draft

 

[cslebn]

I wonder if CBJ could poach Cirelli's RFA rights? With solid two-way centers in Dubois and Koivu that would be a strong defensive core built for the post-season. That or poach Sergachev to have a top-4 of Werenski - Jones, Sergachev - Savard. Either way I doubt TB could do much of anything to retain their player

Nope, the Cirelli ship moore than likely sailed when Columbus got Domi. They picked him up to be the 2C. As for Serg, we have Gavrikov in that spot just fine.

If I wanted a Tampa RFA, I'd probably try for Cernak at this point as the cheapest of the three (contact and to acquire). And that's really if Columbus doesn't feel Peeke is ready (ELC RHD) or wants to trade him. Cernak is certainly better than Peeke or Harrington today. The rest just becomes asset management.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

So what happens in March when it’s halfway thru the season and these guys are ready to return? Deadline may or may not have passed? It’s risky for any team.

here is an honest question for Tampa fans. If Tampa could waive Killorn today and know with certainty he’d be claimed, would you do it? What about a month from now with no movement on your RFAs and training camps on the horizon. It’s safe to say we’re in the dead of offseason so probably very few roster moves will be made between now and the time the nhl decides to pick a start date.

would Tampa give away Killorns 4.45mm cap hit for no return but also no retention?

Only 1 of those listed players might be back in March and that's Seguin, 3 may return in April and 2 are out for the entire season. The remaining names have not had their injuries fully disclosed so their return time tables are unknown. I was making a point that there are competing teams that do have cap space and if they wish to fill the holes in their rosters left by injuries they may look at Tampa. As for why that hasn't happened yet, for 1 Hoffman is still available, 2 the league hasn't announced a schedule out yet. There is still over a month and half left before the expected start time of January 1st takes place, there is still plenty of time for moves to be made. Also, If a team is afraid of a player coming back and would like to accrue cap space before then I don't think Tampa has an issue with Taking back one of those permanent LTIR contracts like Dubinsky. They already won their cup, they don't need to go all in at the deadline again.

As for would I waive Killorn? At this current time? Not a chance, he is the 4th or 5th best forward on the team and a great locker room leader. If there was a day before the season started and Killorn was the only waivable asset for Tampa to get under the cap I would consider it but probably not do it. I doubt it will come to that anyways.

 

[HoseEmDown]

So what happens in March when it’s halfway thru the season and these guys are ready to return? Deadline may or may not have passed? It’s risky for any team.

here is an honest question for Tampa fans. If Tampa could waive Killorn today and know with certainty he’d be claimed, would you do it? What about a month from now with no movement on your RFAs and training camps on the horizon. It’s safe to say we’re in the dead of offseason so probably very few roster moves will be made between now and the time the nhl decides to pick a start date.

would Tampa give away Killorns 4.45mm cap hit for no return but also no retention?

Why do you keep making these outlandish suggestions in every Tampa thread? We are not going to waive Killorn or trade him for a conditional 2030 7th. We are not going to add two 1sts to move Johnson. We need to free up cap but we aren't going to give players away or give a ton of futures away. There's not a lot of cap left out there and the RFA's didn't sign offersheets which tells you they most likely want to stay. We will try to pay them but they need to realize that we aren't going to be held over a barrel to do it. So if we can't free up enough cap they need to realize they will have to take a cheap 1 year deal, sit out of ask to be traded.

 

[HBK27]

Rangers have just enough 4.8 but A) why use it all on Killorn and B) have several key RFAs in next two years which Killorn will take up space during

Rangers have the cap space currently to afford Killorn, but they also they also have $3.95M in potential bonuses that could be achieved this year (largely from Lafreniere & Kakko) that I highly doubt they want carried over into next season (as they should be getting more competitive each year), especially as 6 RFA's will need new contracts. That would seem to take them out of the running for Killorn.

 

[Mal Reynolds]

Rangers have the cap space currently to afford Killorn, but they also they also have $3.95M in potential bonuses that could be achieved this year (largely from Lafreniere & Kakko) that I highly doubt they want carried over into next season (as they should be getting more competitive each year), especially as 6 RFA's will need new contracts. That would seem to take them out of the running for Killorn.

They're loaded on the left wing as well

 

[McJedi]

Why do you keep making these outlandish suggestions in every Tampa thread? We are not going to waive Killorn or trade him for a conditional 2030 7th. We are not going to add two 1sts to move Johnson. We need to free up cap but we aren't going to give players away or give a ton of futures away. There's not a lot of cap left out there and the RFA's didn't sign offersheets which tells you they most likely want to stay. We will try to pay them but they need to realize that we aren't going to be held over a barrel to do it. So if we can't free up enough cap they need to realize they will have to take a cheap 1 year deal, sit out of ask to be traded.

You think they’ll all sign 1 year $1mm deals? That may be all they can get offered this year if Tampa can’t move Killorn. And if they can, it’s a three $2.1mm 1-year deals. Seems impossible to see Tampa sign any of their RFAs for more than one year at this point.

I could see it go down this way at the $2.mm figure.

I don’t think Tampa gets any kind of return trading away Killorn but if they can that frees up a little less than $6.5mm in total cap space to sign those three.

Unless the RFAs want money in a place like NJ or Detroit, I’m also not sure where else your RFAs sign. There isn’t much cap space to trade your player nor lose RFAs to offer sheets. I don’t think a Detroit or NJ wants to give up a 2021 1st either.

Nashville and Florida are about the only interesting teams with cap space to use an OS. They both have all their picks and are no tax states. Florida a really easy move. These two teams could try it.

Boston or Philly could move on a Cernak at the second round level.

a team was never going to use an OS early in UFA. It’s later in the process you’d try that. Once options dry up.

 

[Mal Reynolds]

Why do you keep making these outlandish suggestions in every Tampa thread? We are not going to waive Killorn or trade him for a conditional 2030 7th. We are not going to add two 1sts to move Johnson. We need to free up cap but we aren't going to give players away or give a ton of futures away. There's not a lot of cap left out there and the RFA's didn't sign offersheets which tells you they most likely want to stay. We will try to pay them but they need to realize that we aren't going to be held over a barrel to do it. So if we can't free up enough cap they need to realize they will have to take a cheap 1 year deal, sit out of ask to be traded.

No no noooooo.... you're gonna trade Sergachev and Johnson to my team for a 7th, and you're going to like it