Confirmed with Link: Columbus signs Kole Sherwood to a 3 year ELC

[blahblah]

"Idiotic".... Lol. Easy to say from an HF profile.

Why don't you set up a meeting with JK/JD and your buddy. I've got no problem stating to all of them that he got mid to late 1st round money and that we overpaid. As I said if he had been drafted in the 4th round, that deal wouldn't have happened and I suspect that there might have been other teams interested. Other reasons put our GM in a bad light. You don't go from undrafted to that term in a week.

So, yes, it's idiotic. So I recommend that you get rid of your man-crush and look at it objectively.

I'm happy for the kid and that nice signing bonus. Hopefully he doesn't do anything stupid with the cash, there's no guarantee that he'll see much of what that ELC pays at the NHL level. Historically his odds are long.

Cheers.

Oh and nice deflection; it wasn't a max deal if those numbers are accurate.

 

[The Press Express]

Why don't you set up a meeting with JK/JD and your buddy. I've got no problem stating to all of them that he got mid to late 1st round money and that we overpaid. As I said if he had been drafted in the 4th round, that deal wouldn't have happened and I suspect that there might have been other teams interested. Other reasons put our GM in a bad light. You don't go from undrafted to that term in a week.

So, yes, it's idiotic. So I recommend that you get rid of your man-crush and look at it objectively.

I'm happy for the kid and that nice signing bonus. Hopefully he doesn't do anything stupid with the cash, there's no guarantee that he'll see much of what that ELC pays at the NHL level. Historically his odds are long.

Cheers.

Oh and nice deflection; it wasn't a max deal if those numbers are accurate.

Thats why you're here and Jarmo is GM. There are plenty of things you are overlooking and unfortunately don't now about or understand in terms of how scouting works. London has guaranteed him a top line position with Marner. His stats are gonna be wicked this season at London. As I said before there are plenty of things you are unaware of or don't understand when it comes to this process. Let the numbers speak for themselves.

 

[Viqsi]

Why don't you set up a meeting with JK/JD and your buddy. I've got no problem stating to all of them that he got mid to late 1st round money and that we overpaid. As I said if he had been drafted in the 4th round, that deal wouldn't have happened and I suspect that there might have been other teams interested. Other reasons put our GM in a bad light. You don't go from undrafted to that term in a week.

So, yes, it's idiotic.

Given the risk/reward factor involved, to call it "idiotic" seems to me just a tad extreme. It may be more than is normally desirable, but "more" in this case is not overly severe. It's not like we paid multiple millions for the kid.

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

A six round pick+ or 250 000 $ signing bonus given away? Money or the tricycle?

PR-wise it was worth it which his agent knew and Sherwood arrives with more than enough potential to justify the deal in the first place.

I could think that the money received most importantly reflects upon the decision to have Sherwood fully pursuit pro career through CHL instead of the long and winding college route that provides better back-up option for your civilian life. Fair exchange.

 

[Fro]

Tulip is on to something...the PR aspect is 10fold here...

 

[blahblah]

Thats why you're here and Jarmo is GM. There are plenty of things you are overlooking and unfortunately don't now about or understand in terms of how scouting works. London has guaranteed him a top line position with Marner. His stats are gonna be wicked this season at London. As I said before there are plenty of things you are unaware of or don't understand when it comes to this process. Let the numbers speak for themselves.

Oh please. This one is pretty straightforward. If he was that in demand, he would have been drafted. If he had, he might not even have signed an ELC for a couple of years. There was something else going on here besides "I showed something in Development Camp that no one in the NHL saw the week before. Not one single team.". If he was sure-fire, he would have been drafted in the first round.

ELC's for drafted players are pretty cookie cutter; especially if they are signed immediately after the draft. There is variance for guys like college players; it starts to vary more the longer they take to sign.

He could put up good or even great stats in juniors; whatever agreement on where he plays in the lineup could last off of one game. Also, just ask the horde of players that never played more than a handful of games in the NHL what a big junior means for a pro career. The Jackets basically project him as the last player they would have taken in the draft. Now look at how many of those players actually play in the NHL. He has an uphill battle.

From what it sounds like he has pretty good tools, I wish him well. But if he thinks he got that contract because the Jackets think he's a sure-fire NHL player, perhaps he needs to re-evaluate things. That might be more of your issue than his, however.

 

[blahblah]

I could think that the money received most importantly reflects upon the decision to have Sherwood fully pursuit pro career through CHL instead of the long and winding college route that provides better back-up option for your civilian life. Fair exchange.

Possibly; and that's why I wasn't that concerned about the bonus. As I said, it is quite possible he'll never see much of that NHL salary. Maybe the CBJ are just kind hearted teddy bears for a local kid and the publicity.

 

[DarkandStormy]

He's not going to make $833K/year on this deal in the OHL and Cleveland. Let's calm down about "overpaying."

 

[blahblah]

He's not going to make $833K/year on this deal in the OHL and Cleveland. Let's calm down about "overpaying."

Pretty damn sure I knew that since I said "in the NHL" in my previous posts. But thanks for bringing me down from the ledge; I was totally losing it.

Having said that, once again something is off about that contract. That's all I was saying. Mr. "I am Kole's buddy" decided to lern me somdin.

I hope he does well and makes almost 900k at the NHL level someday. Hell I hope we end up paying him a huge contract down the line somewhere. Still an undrafted player getting more than a 2nd rounder (Jenner) the week after he wasn't drafted? Yeah, something else is in play. Maybe it was a buy off from the Jackets to go Juniors. Why? Not sure. He probably would have been willing to forego a couple of years in college and turn pro earlier if both sides wanted him to. I understand that he gets in more games, but that's his decision. Sounds like he wouldn't have needed much motivation to go that route anyway.

Really it isn't a big deal. But I don't need a man-crush telling me that this is normal or justified. I certainly don't need the Internet coward card thrown at me. I'm more than happy to tell this or anything I post to anyone's face anytime they wish it.

 

[blahblah]

Yeah, duh. The guy I had quoted earlier kind of had it, although I don't think he had all the pieces.

I've really didn't think much about it, other than immediately seeing it was off.

This was, most likely, simply a way for the Jackets to eliminate the risk of someone else drafting him next season before we had the chance. We didn't have his rights, so we paid a premium for him to forego his amateur career.

I suspect it almost had nothing to do with what CBJ all the way was stating; all that scouting nonsense.

Was it worth it for the Jackets to burn another contract for a undrafted kid they could have used a 7th round pick on instead of Markus Nutivaara? We'll see. Let's keep in mind that the Jackets picked 9 other guys before him and I don't think one of them has an ELC yet.

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

Was it worth it for the Jackets to burn another contract for a undrafted kid they could have used a 7th round pick on instead of Markus Nutivaara?

Nutivaara was perhaps the highest performing player so far in that draft class along with Connor McDavid.

 

[blahblah]

Nutivaara was perhaps the highest performing player so far in that draft class along with Connor McDavid.

That's nice, he was also a 7th round pick. We know that the odds of a 7th rounder doing anything are quite remote. Obviously putting him in the same sentence as McDavid is pretty cringe worthy. One's considered a generational talent, the other was the 189th pick in the draft. Having said that, what did this 21 year old defensive player do that "highest performing player"? I'm having a hard time imaging what this about. I see a player that played 35 games with Karpat last season.

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

I see a player that played 35 games with Karpat last season.

+16 play-off games as they won the Finnish championship.

Nutivaara's profile significantly rose during that play-off campaign for Kärpät as the rookie filled in for their captain and Finnish Olympian defender Lasse Kukkonen playing some key minutes as they succesfully defended the title. I don't think there is actually a player in this latest draft that has done more in their career so far - of course he has the benefit of age although Nutivaara is a late bloomer himself.

 

[blahblah]

+16 play-off games as they won the Finnish championship.

Nutivaara's profile significantly rose during that play-off campaign for Kärpät as the rookie filled in for their captain and Finnish Olympian defender Lasse Kukkonen playing some key minutes as they succesfully defended the title. I don't think there is actually a player in this latest draft that has done more in their career so far - of course he has the benefit of age although Nutivaara is a late bloomer himself.

Umm.. Yeah.. As I said, good for him. I'm not saying anything good or bad about him, but to put him in same sentence as McDavid... Come on.

Let's keep this on Kole. You can gush to your hearts content in the draft thread.

 

[The Press Express]

Oh please. This one is pretty straightforward. If he was that in demand, he would have been drafted. If he had, he might not even have signed an ELC for a couple of years. There was something else going on here besides "I showed something in Development Camp that no one in the NHL saw the week before. Not one single team.". If he was sure-fire, he would have been drafted in the first round.

ELC's for drafted players are pretty cookie cutter; especially if they are signed immediately after the draft. There is variance for guys like college players; it starts to vary more the longer they take to sign.

He could put up good or even great stats in juniors; whatever agreement on where he plays in the lineup could last off of one game. Also, just ask the horde of players that never played more than a handful of games in the NHL what a big junior means for a pro career. The Jackets basically project him as the last player they would have taken in the draft. Now look at how many of those players actually play in the NHL. He has an uphill battle.

From what it sounds like he has pretty good tools, I wish him well. But if he thinks he got that contract because the Jackets think he's a sure-fire NHL player, perhaps he needs to re-evaluate things. That might be more of your issue than his, however.

Look mate, i'm just looking at the numbers. I by no means think he's sure shot. Hes got a big body and plays a nice finesse game. Hes extremely humble and very coachable. He has a lot of upside. He out skated Milano all camp. I feel like Jarmo realized how much potential Kole has after they were able to take him in and see him skate with some legit prospects which he has never done before. And since they had no rights to him they panicked and knew they had to lock him down before word got out. So maybe they overpaid him a little. But they obviously see a lot of upside in him.

 

[The Press Express]

blahblah youre gonna give me a heart attack man

im not calling you an internet coward. Im saying theres a reason why you aren't in the front office. Have some faith in the organization. Theres major factors that we all are unaware of that go into these deals. Chill out a bit lol.

 

[blahblah]

+16 play-off games as they won the Finnish championship.

Nutivaara's profile significantly rose during that play-off campaign for Kärpät as the rookie filled in for their captain and Finnish Olympian defender Lasse Kukkonen playing some key minutes as they succesfully defended the title. I don't think there is actually a player in this latest draft that has done more in their career so far - of course he has the benefit of age although Nutivaara is a late bloomer himself.

What part of this is the wrong thread did you not understand?

Kole is awesome.

 

[blahblah]

"Idiotic".... Lol. Easy to say from an HF profile.

im not calling you an internet coward. Im saying theres a reason why you aren't in the front office. Have some faith in the organization. Theres major factors that we all are unaware of that go into these deals. Chill out a bit lol.

Please. The insinuation was there.

As for the rest of it; oh goody thanks for telling me I wasn't in the office during the discussions. Trust me this wasn't a huge conversation with the front office and wasn't all that complicated. There wasn't "major factors". They wanted him in the 7th round, couldn't do, didn't want to risk him going to another team, and paid him.

The more I thought about it, the easier to see why this happened. Had he went college he would have been thrown in next years draft pool. I'm willing to bet we simply paid him to avoid that. There is also the outside chance that some other team wanted him.

Logic prevails over the silly thought that the scouts suddenly decided that he was worth the compensation of a mid-to-late first round pick a week after he wasn't drafted.

I, as respectfully as I can, ask that you quit name dropping; pretending that you have some special insight that the Jackets think he's next coming or whatever it is your dreaming about.

I'm happy for the kid. I don't care what his compensation is to be honest. Honestly, there's a real chance he won't see much of it outside of the bonus. I hope that isn't the case.

 

[blahblah]

Look mate, i'm just looking at the numbers. I by no means think he's sure shot. Hes got a big body and plays a nice finesse game. Hes extremely humble and very coachable. He has a lot of upside. He out skated Milano all camp. I feel like Jarmo realized how much potential Kole has after they were able to take him in and see him skate with some legit prospects which he has never done before. And since they had no rights to him they panicked and knew they had to lock him down before word got out. So maybe they overpaid him a little. But they obviously see a lot of upside in him.

Look "mate"; I'm willing to bet you virtually anything there wasn't some big revelation. Being local I'm sure they've seen him a lot. They admitted they wanted him at the draft. We all know he's a great skater. That was known going the draft.

 

[Brodeur]

I'm trying to think of the last time that an undrafted player signed an ELC right out of the first rookie camp.

Kings had Martin Jones in 2008 and word was that they would have liked to have signed Radko Gudas in 2009 but he wasn't eligible to be signed. Sharks signed Michael Sgarbossa and J.P. Anderson in 2010. Carolina signed Sergei Tolchinsky in 2013. Winnipeg signed Axel Blomqvist in 2013 as well. I think there were a couple other guys in the last ten years.

It was an interesting sight at the end of the 2011 Draft. When things ended, I remembered seeing a couple of Kings scouts race up into the stands to talk to (presumably) an undrafted prospect.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Kings had Martin Jones in 2008 and word was that they would have liked to have signed Radko Gudas in 2009 but he wasn't eligible to be signed. Sharks signed Michael Sgarbossa and J.P. Anderson in 2010. Carolina signed Sergei Tolchinsky in 2013. Winnipeg signed Axel Blomqvist in 2013 as well. I think there were a couple other guys in the last ten years.

It was an interesting sight at the end of the 2011 Draft. When things ended, I remembered seeing a couple of Kings scouts race up into the stands to talk to (presumably) an undrafted prospect.

All of them, like Oliver Gabriel with Columbus, were signed during or shortly after the regular training camp (in September and, in Blomqvist's case, October).

This is still with training camp on the horizon; that's what intrigues me so much.

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

What part of this is the wrong thread did you not understand?

You might want to read others replies bit better if we are having a discussion... You replied twice to my (still the same) post while I was happily sleeping. Good morning.



I don't actually see why it is such a wonder. It ain't like seven rounds of drafting can find and secure all the potential in the world since even youngsters already playing at pro level are left out.

Sherwood got reasonable amount of money for stepping off what could bring him reasonable amount of money going through college if hockey doesn't work out. It ain't like he wouldn't have also given something away, something far more valuable than 250 000 dollars to a NHL organization. Without the money which he would could have received even more (?) in the open market (if he reaches his potential) what's the reason in there for Sherwood to sign and lock himself to a team that might have some competition for offensive roster spots in years to come?

The sooner, the better: the contracts go.

 

[KeithBWhittington]

Thats why you're here and Jarmo is GM. There are plenty of things you are overlooking and unfortunately don't now about or understand in terms of how scouting works. London has guaranteed him a top line position with Marner. His stats are gonna be wicked this season at London. As I said before there are plenty of things you are unaware of or don't understand when it comes to this process. Let the numbers speak for themselves.

I share blah's sentiment. It is overpayment for where he was even slotted in the draft. If you want to argue Jarmo deemed this "necessary" to do this for future potential numbers and a future draft position that Kole could have put himself in next season and the CBJ would miss drafting him and would have to hear about missing on the hometown kid (ahem, Roslovic)then I can understand it. I too, though, am highly skeptical that what was essentially a glorified Allstar scrimmage at the Ice Haus is what sealed th deal on this....

CBJ overpaid for a new line of good PR and potential returns on that investment in the form of Kole bettering his draft position substantially from this year.

 

[Viqsi]

All I know is that if sometime in the future Kole doesn't pan out and someone starts trying to list this among "big mistakes" by Kekalainen I'm going to go a-murderin'.

 

[KeithBWhittington]

All I know is that if sometime in the future Kole doesn't pan out and someone starts trying to list this among "big mistakes" by Kekalainen I'm going to go a-murderin'.

I don't think that's the case, but it does make me ask a few questions: I.e: if Jarmo wanted him so bad in the seventh round, what was deemed, "too important" an asset to risk trading away for that? Never get the answer, but it's intriguing nonetheless. I doubt teams are asking for the moon for a seventh rounder. Maybe offer them a sixth next year, take your guy, then he is in the pipeline with no immediate need to sign him....Besides, the story here is bulletproof for Jarmo, it's good PR now and it's good PR in 5 years if Kole is on an ECHL contract or playing in Germany in some third tier Beer League.

I don't know.... Again, really happy for Kole, but I think the CBJ coughed up more than Kole was worth at the time for the "story" story first and future potential second, a far away second.