Proposal: Colorado - Ottawa | Mark Stone

[avsfan09]

So you'll be just as happy with Ottawa barely missing the playoffs as you would with them finishing dead last?

Obviously Avs fans wouldn't be as happy but weve already won this trade. The pick is just a bonus and is exciting for us to follow. Can't blame Avs fans for wanting what's best. Especially after some if Dorions comments last season.

 

[Hasbro]

Wow some really level headed and generally good Avs fans showed up in here. )

We’re trying to establish some etiquette about how to handle the Pick of Damacles over the next season.

 

[Duncstar]

We’re trying to establish some etiquette about how to handle the Pick of Damacles over the next season.

To tank, or to not tank - that is the Question

 

[Hasbro]

To tank, or to not tank - that is the Question

Not so much tank as is salvaging long term value out of three assets who could all realistically walk at the end of the year versus the backlash, hit at the gate and possibly hampering a new arena deal.

I think Karl forces his way out before the start of the season, I think they bite the bullet on on the at the deadline when he can sign an extension to juice his value. Duchene I'm in the air about, both he and the Sens painted themselves into a corner with the trade from the Avalanche, one of the parties will have to admit it's a sunk cost or Dutch will have to get ok with not making the playoffs for at least another couple years.

 

[Duncstar]

Not so much tank as is salvaging long term value out of three assets who could all realistically walk at the end of the year versus the backlash, hit at the gate and possibly hampering a new arena deal.

I think Karl forces his way out before the start of the season, I think they bite the bullet on on the at the deadline when he can sign an extension to juice his value. Duchene I'm in the air about, both he and the Sens painted themselves into a corner with the trade from the Avalanche, one of the parties will have to admit it's a sunk cost or Dutch will have to get ok with not making the playoffs for at least another couple years.

I'm ok trading everyone at the trade deadline. Finish at like 20th place, trade all of them to contenders... Do it. Rebuild this gong show already.

 

[Patagonia]

I'm ok trading everyone at the trade deadline. Finish at like 20th place, trade all of them to contenders... Do it. Rebuild this gong show already.

I agree this is the best course of action if the GM and Ownership are competent. Brassard trade was decent for a serviceable player flipped for a 3rd, goalie prospect, 1st and 3rd. Hoffman dumped for pennies. EK offered below market will be a UFA. Stone not extended beyond this season. Duchene likely walks. Terrible situation for the team and fans.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

The problem with Ottawa waiting until the deadline to see off Stone/EK/Duchene is that the value of those guys is going to plummet. Combined with the fact they're UFAs, it's pretty clear they want out of Ottawa and at the deadline it will be the last possible chance Ottawa has to get value for them. Teams will know this and will have a major position of advantage in negotiations. Similar to what happened with Kane in Buffalo last year, Moulson with the Islanders before that, and Vanek a few years before that.


Hard to get value at the deadline when its known around the league that a player doesn't want to stay and will be leaving as a UFA.


I think Ottawa's best course of action for the future is to trade those 3 guys before the season starts. That way it gives teams acquiring them a full year of those players instead of just the 20 games + playoffs from the deadline. That alone will increase the value they get back a decent bit. It also gives the acquiring teams an earlier head start on extension negotiations which again would increase value. Although Stone cant extend until January 1st so in his case waiting until the deadline might still be the better course of action.



What the Sens really need to do is just bite the bullet and rebuild right now. Dont worry about what will happen with the 2019 1st. That's a sunken cost and shouldn't be factored into decisions at all anymore. That is unless the Avs come calling looking for Karlsson or Stone and put that pick on the table. Otherwise just focus on what's best for the future of the Senators. Which to me is pretty clearly selling hardcore right now, rebuilding and stocking up for a future team in 3-4 years from now.

 

[Sensung]

Not so much tank as is salvaging long term value out of three assets who could all realistically walk at the end of the year versus the backlash, hit at the gate and possibly hampering a new arena deal.

I think Karl forces his way out before the start of the season, I think they bite the bullet on on the at the deadline when he can sign an extension to juice his value. Duchene I'm in the air about, both he and the Sens painted themselves into a corner with the trade from the Avalanche, one of the parties will have to admit it's a sunk cost or Dutch will have to get ok with not making the playoffs for at least another couple years.

Weird that EK's had since the TDL to ask for a trade and hasn't made a peep. His mentor Alfie is on record saying he wants to stay, but you probably know better.

I have to laugh at your Duchene take. It's like he has no track record of trying to get away from a shit organization by demanding a trade...oh wait! Funny, not a word from Matt either.

It's like your narrative is missing important facts.

 

[Sensung]

The problem with Ottawa waiting until the deadline to see off Stone/EK/Duchene is that the value of those guys is going to plummet. Combined with the fact they're UFAs, it's pretty clear they want out of Ottawa and at the deadline it will be the last possible chance Ottawa has to get value for them. Teams will know this and will have a major position of advantage in negotiations. Similar to what happened with Kane in Buffalo last year, Moulson with the Islanders before that, and Vanek a few years before that.

The problem Avs fans have with the Sens waiting for the TDL is that it hurts their plans for Hughes...

Hard to get value at the deadline when its known around the league that a player doesn't want to stay and will be leaving as a UFA.

Feel free to provide any evidence to suggest these players want out. (You know like when one of the 3 demanded a trade to get away from the Avs)

I think Ottawa's best course of action for the future is to trade those 3 guys before the season starts. That way it gives teams acquiring them a full year of those players instead of just the 20 games + playoffs from the deadline. That alone will increase the value they get back a decent bit. It also gives the acquiring teams an earlier head start on extension negotiations which again would increase value. Although Stone cant extend until January 1st so in his case waiting until the deadline might still be the better course of action.

Shocking that an Avs fan wants to see the Sens trade away their best 3 players...it is like you have an ulterior motivation.

What the Sens really need to do is just bite the bullet and rebuild right now. Dont worry about what will happen with the 2019 1st. That's a sunken cost and shouldn't be factored into decisions at all anymore. That is unless the Avs come calling looking for Karlsson or Stone and put that pick on the table. Otherwise just focus on what's best for the future of the Senators. Which to me is pretty clearly selling hardcore right now, rebuilding and stocking up for a future team in 3-4 years from now.

Something else is going on in Ottawa. Sorry the Avs faithful haven't clued in just yet, but things are not going to play out according to your fantasy scenario.

 

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

Yeah, Colorado's not getting Mark Stone lol.

And the organization isn't in much of a better position than the Sens (and that's coming from someone who believes the Sens are the worst run organization in pro sports). Remember, just a year ago Colorado was the definition of a Micky Mouse organization. They rode career years from Rantanen and MacKinnon to barelyyyyy make the playoffs, so they likely fall right back.

 

[agentblack]

I bear no I'll will to Ottawa fans, it's just a zero sum game and the more calamity for the Sens is inversely good news for the Avalanche.

Exactly. its just a fact that its going to benefit us if your team loses more often than not. Its not personal. We dont like hate your franchise or anything , i mean you got the Leafs and Habs for that.
Your GM agreed to this deal, i mean we kinda have to root against you. Dont we?

Honestly its probably gonna be late teens which is still great for a franchise that if you looked at our C level prospect base most of it has come in the last two years, so we still need all the talent we can get

 

[Freaky Styley]

Yeah, Colorado's not getting Mark Stone lol.

And the organization isn't in much of a better position than the Sens (and that's coming from someone who believes the Sens are the worst run organization in pro sports). Remember, just a year ago Colorado was the definition of a Micky Mouse organization. They rode career years from Rantanen and MacKinnon to barelyyyyy make the playoffs, so they likely fall right back.

A+ analysis

 

[Patagonia]

The problem Avs fans have with the Sens waiting for the TDL is that it hurts their plans for Hughes...



Feel free to provide any evidence to suggest these players want out. (You know like when one of the 3 demanded a trade to get away from the Avs)



Shocking that an Avs fan wants to see the Sens trade away their best 3 players...it is like you have an ulterior motivation.



Something else is going on in Ottawa. Sorry the Avs faithful haven't clued in just yet, but things are not going to play out according to your fantasy scenario.

AVs fan.

I will be honest, we should hope the Sens keep their UFAs and sell them for significantly less or lose them for nothing. Sens will still sink to the bottom and provide a Top 10 1st and high 3rd selections.

Surprisingly, many of us understand. AVs also suffered from having the worst season in decades and still lost the Top 3 draft selection. The difference is the Sens fans suffer for the incompetence of Mgmt and Ownership. We hope for the best regardless, but we’re not vindictive.

If you still seriously believe AVs fans are hoping for the Sens continued failure, try visiting our Board. The fans have suffered enough and deserve better. Just don’t assume we’re clueless or believe in fantasies, you just insult yourself.

 

[McMetal]

Feel free to provide any evidence to suggest these players want out. (You know like when one of the 3 demanded a trade to get away from the Avs)

Duchene's formal trade request didn't leak out until after the trade was complete, so your comparison doesn't really hold a lot of water. There was massive media speculation about the Avs wanting to move him, but the trade request was kept under wraps by both player and team in order to make the best of an ugly situation.

So the best you can say is that we don't know for SURE that such a request has been made, which is correct, but that doesn't mean we can't use our brains to figure out that them wanting out is more likely than not.

And as my fellow Avs fans have said, I wish nothing bad on Sens fans. We know what it's like to feel like your org is a bus on fire headed for a cliff with no brakes. But as somebody who loves the top 5 in next year's draft, I kind of hope you guys lose more than you win next year. After that, I hope Melnyk is given a one-way ticket to the Moon and Chabot, Tkachuk, Brown, and Gustavsson form a bright new young core to build from by a GM without a learning disability.

 

[tucker3434]

Yeah, Colorado's not getting Mark Stone lol.

And the organization isn't in much of a better position than the Sens (and that's coming from someone who believes the Sens are the worst run organization in pro sports). Remember, just a year ago Colorado was the definition of a Micky Mouse organization. They rode career years from Rantanen and MacKinnon to barelyyyyy make the playoffs, so they likely fall right back.

The 2019 UFA situation alone makes that statement just so so wrong. All of our best players are either already locked up long term or will be by the end of the ELC’s.

And I don’t know that 22 year old MacKinnon and 21 year old Rantanen combining with Landeskog to form one of the best lines in the NHL last year is a good reason to say we’ll have trouble in the future.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

The problem Avs fans have with the Sens waiting for the TDL is that it hurts their plans for Hughes...



Feel free to provide any evidence to suggest these players want out. (You know like when one of the 3 demanded a trade to get away from the Avs)



Shocking that an Avs fan wants to see the Sens trade away their best 3 players...it is like you have an ulterior motivation.



Something else is going on in Ottawa. Sorry the Avs faithful haven't clued in just yet, but things are not going to play out according to your fantasy scenario.

go ahead and continue living in your fantasy land.


Honestly for the sake of the rest of your fan base I hope you're right, despite literally everything suggesting otherwise.


It really doesn't matter what happens with the Sens next year. That trade was already a massive, franchise altering win for the Avs. Anything extra out of the trade is icing on the cake for Colorado.

 

[Sensung]

Honestly for the sake of the rest of your fan base I hope you're right, despite literally everything suggesting otherwise.

Feel free to post the extensive evidence to support this position. Should be really easy with EVERYTHING on your side.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Feel free to post the extensive evidence to support this position. Should be really easy with EVERYTHING on your side.

The evidence has been discussed ad nauseam already in this thread and countless other thread. You simply choose to ignore it or like I said live in this fantasy land where none of it is real.


Why do you think Karlsson hasn't signed an extension yet? Why did Stone sign a 1 year deal instead of taking a long term deal? Why hasn't Duchene signed an extension yet?


Just because a trade request hasn't been made public does not in any way mean these guys want to be in Ottawa. Matt Duchene's trade request was never once made public until after the trade had actually happened and Sakic mentioned he had actually requested a trade almost a full year prior.



If you want to ignore the facts that are presented in front of you then go ahead. You're only setting yourself up for disappointment when the fairly obvious actually comes to fruition.

 

[Sensung]

The evidence has been discussed ad nauseam already in this thread and countless other thread. You simply choose to ignore it or like I said live in this fantasy land where none of it is real.

Well let's see what you can bring to the table...

Why do you think Karlsson hasn't signed an extension yet? Why did Stone sign a 1 year deal instead of taking a long term deal? Why hasn't Duchene signed an extension yet?

Wonderful job of making my case for me.

The pending sale explains the lack of trades, signings and complete cone of silence.

What is YOUR explanation for the bizarre way the Sens have been behaving?

Just because a trade request hasn't been made public does not in any way mean these guys want to be in Ottawa. Matt Duchene's trade request was never once made public until after the trade had actually happened and Sakic mentioned he had actually requested a trade almost a full year prior.

Alfie says EK wants to stay. Posters who know EK say he wants to stay, but not under Melnyk.

Duchene is on record stating he wants to stay. Compare that to his comments at the beginning of last year about being "open to a trade".
Stone has made zero comments either say.

All three are now pending UFA's with nothing to lose by voicing a trade demand and yet none have...weird.

If you want to ignore the facts that are presented in front of you then go ahead. You're only setting yourself up for disappointment when the fairly obvious actually comes to fruition.

The next fact you post will be the 1st one you've brought to the discussion.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Well let's see what you can bring to the table...


Wonderful job of making my case for me.

The pending sale explains the lack of trades, signings and complete cone of silence.

What is YOUR explanation for the bizarre way the Sens have been behaving?


Alfie says EK wants to stay. Posters who know EK say he wants to stay, but not under Melnyk.

Duchene is on record stating he wants to stay. Compare that to his comments at the beginning of last year about being "open to a trade".
Stone has made zero comments either say.

All three are now pending UFA's with nothing to lose by voicing a trade demand and yet none have...weird.


The next fact you post will be the 1st one you've brought to the discussion.

And yet Melnyk is on record multiple times as saying the team is not for sale and he does not want to sale it.



Like I said, if you want to choose to ignore everything being presented in front of you go ahead. I'm done replying to someone who's just going to refute everything that gets posted with nonsense because it doesn't fit your bubble.


I hope the Sens do figure things out for the sake of the rest of your fan base. On the other hand, I cant wait for you to be wrong to see how you twist things again for your own fantasy.

 

[CDN24]

Well let's see what you can bring to the table...


Wonderful job of making my case for me.

The pending sale explains the lack of trades, signings and complete cone of silence.

What is YOUR explanation for the bizarre way the Sens have been behaving?


Alfie says EK wants to stay. Posters who know EK say he wants to stay, but not under Melnyk.

Duchene is on record stating he wants to stay. Compare that to his comments at the beginning of last year about being "open to a trade".
Stone has made zero comments either say.

All three are now pending UFA's with nothing to lose by voicing a trade demand and yet none have...weird.


The next fact you post will be the 1st one you've brought to the discussion.

What pending sale? EM is on the record as saying he is not selling. Or is it only Duchene's on the record comments that count.

I agree if the Sens are sold before they become UFA's it is likely that all three resign. If EM is still the owner then you will be lucky to start 19-20 with one of the 3 in your roster. All three seem to be in wait and see mode.

 

[Crosside]

In December at the radio he said Melnyk sold to the owner of red black team. Why the deal not happened

 

[Sensung]

What pending sale? EM is on the record as saying he is not selling. Or is it only Duchene's on the record comments that count.

I agree if the Sens are sold before they become UFA's it is likely that all three resign. If EM is still the owner then you will be lucky to start 19-20 with one of the 3 in your roster. All three seem to be in wait and see mode.

Perhaps you should ask yourself why...

 

[CDN24]

Perhaps you should ask yourself why...

I have asked myself why EK and MD have not signed an extenion? I have asked myself why MS signed a 1 yr extenion? The answer i get is they do not want to be part of the status quo in Ottawa and will leave after this year if nothing (ownership) changes. They know one year and I am UFA, I can wait out one year- no need to ask for a trade and look like the bad guy.

You seem to think that because they have not publicly asked for a trade it means they know an ownership change is coming. That IMO is a stretch. don't hold your breath.

 

[Eltuna]

Feel free to post the extensive evidence to support this position. Should be really easy with EVERYTHING on your side.

To me the most damning evidence has always been that Ryan was quoted after the trade deadline stating his agent told him that a trade had been made with him and Karlsson in it and that he thought he was gone. If Melnyk wanted to sell I don’t see why he would trade Karlsson as Karlsson would presumably be a big draw for a potential buyer, and there’s absolutely no way a deal wasn’t extremely close to being finalized going by the Ryan quote. The hiring of a new COO, extension to Dorion, and refinancing of debt also would be strange moves by Melnyk if a sale was imminent and less than a year away like some would suggest. I do think Melnyk is eventually going to sell but I don’t think it happens before the trade deadline of this year, which is when it would need to happen to retain Karlsson/Stone/Duchene as I don’t think another team is going to risk getting Tavares’d, if they won’t sign they’ve got to be traded.