Proposal: Colorado - Montreal

[hockeyheadlines]

Your two best players are in their absolute prime and the Habs cup window is 2 or 3 years. Getting Duchene now would exponentially improve your chances for the whole duration of that cup window. He'd become de-facto your best forward and would make a HUGE difference. Refusing to trade a prospect for him would be beyond dumb...you can always draft more defensive prospects but you won't draft another prime Price, Weber, Radulov and Duchene. Habs aren't rebuilding, the future is now.

Duchene is not the only center we could covet. No matter what your objective is (Cup or playoffs), you don't trade away your future for it. Sergachev will be an important piece for Montreal in a couple of years.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Duchene is not the only center we could covet. No matter what your objective is (Cup or playoffs), you don't trade away your future for it. Sergachev will be an important piece for Montreal in a couple of years.

Who do you think you could realistically get without giving up Sergachev?

 

[Freudian]

Are Habs fans figuring Pacioretty will bolt in two years or why is he in every proposal lately?

 

[hockeyheadlines]

Who do you think you could realistically get without giving up Sergachev?

At the trade deadline, if we're in a position to challenge, we'll see who is willing to drop a player.

Picks are usually the asking price for rentals and that's more likely to be, what we'd be looking to get.

 

[hockeyheadlines]

Are Habs fans figuring Pacioretty will bolt in two years or why is he in every proposal lately?

I seriously doubt they are bona fide Montreal fans. Zero reason to move Pacioretty.

 

[HOPE]

Who do you think you could realistically get without giving up Sergachev?

as a hockey fan and a guy who supports, the habs, sergachev would definitly be in the equation if duchene is coming back.

i've seen people suggest avs to fully rebuild.

what about

Plekanec
Sergachev
2nd

vs

Duchene
5th

 

[Michelangelo]

I'd give Sergachev for Duchene.

If we decide our window is now.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I haven't seen many trade proposals involving the Habs captain started by the teams that might be interested in acquiring him, but quite a few that are started by the team trying to get rid of him... Yet he has all this supreme value...???

 

[HOPE]

I haven't seen many trade proposals involving the Habs captain started by the teams that might be interested in acquiring him, but quite a few that are started by the team trying to get rid of him... Yet he has all this supreme value...???

he has a slow start in terms of scoring and he seems effortless, doesnt mean he is. still has 10 points in 14 games and hasnt been playing on the 1st line much and has played alot with plekanec where he needs to shutdown top offensive line and plekanec isnt a realy good play maker. What people need to understand is Pacioretty is an exellent shut down winger, with high end shot finish but hes a complimentary winger and doesnt realy creates his own chances, the only time he realy does his when he uses his speed to beat offwing and takes a good shot, beside that he needs a good playmaker. but do you need complimentary players with exellent finish? yes, because they are usally the one scoring. he has over 30+ nearly 40 goals in his last 4 season also 4 season of over 60+ pts while being good in his own end, do you know any player that isnt on his ELC or bridge contract who does that for 4.5M. Pacioretty is a VERY effective and close to elite player he just isnt spectacular to watch. hence is why most habs fan wants him out. i would only do it for an upgrade vs a team rebuilding.

 

[PTH]

Id love duchene but they wouldnt begin talks without galchenyuk on the table.

You know, a lot of fans have said things like that over the years, and been proven wrong.

For example, there was no way Rick Nash was going to NY without Kreider going the other way. Wasn't happening, no way.

 

[Avs44]

You know, a lot of fans have said things like that over the years, and been proven wrong.

For example, there was no way Rick Nash was going to NY without Kreider going the other way. Wasn't happening, no way.

Let me know when Duchene has an albatross contract, has a NMC, requests a trade, and highly limits the teams he will accept a trade to. Then I'll pretend to worry the Avs won't get a good return.

 

[Drydenwasthebest]

Pacioretty was born in 1988, duchene in 1991.
Duchene hit 67 points when he was 20. Pacioretty didnt come close to that until he was 24.

Duchene 0.76ppg as a C, Pacioretty 0.71 as a LW. 100% of people who think pacioretty is better are habs fans or hate the avs

Again, I want the proven 30 + goal scoring threat (4 times is proven, once is not). I want the proven 60+ point producer, not the one time 70 point producer.

Context is also important in relation to stats. Duchene was gifted top 6 minutes from the time he was drafted. Pacioretty was brought up in a system where he started in the bottom 6. Pacioretty plays for the Habs, a team that does not give kids top line minutes right out of the draft (Pacioretty had 12:37 toi/game and 49 minutes of pp time for that season. Duchene was given 17:43toi/g and 246.52 minutes of pp time that season.) whereas Duchene was given top six minutes right away...along with top 6 line mates. So, when you try and toss out foolishness like "Duchene hit 67 points when he was 20. Pacioretty didnt come close to that until he was 24" and forget that there are educated hockey fans on this site who know a lot more than what simple contextless numbers state, you look like a ... well, to be polite, someone being incredibly disingenuous in order to pretend to know what he is talking about.

Again, that 0.76 ppg vs 0.71 ppg stat is equally contextually trite when you look at the same thing I pointed out above. The reason it took Pacioretty until the age of 24 has nothing to do with his skill, and everything to do with how the Habs as an organization develop their players. When Pacioretty FINALLY got top 6 ice time, he PRODUCED CONSISTENTLY: 4 out of 5 seasons he scored 30+ goals and 60+ seasons. The one season in that time frame he did not produce was because it was strike shortened: he played 44 games and produced 39 points which might have turned into a 72 point season if you believe pro-rated stats ( am not a fan of them). Duchene has not proven to be able to outproduce Pacioretty with similar ice time.

Are you starting to see why tossing out contextless numbers is meaningless tripe?

By the way, this in NO WAY means Duchene is not a stud young player with even more potential to get better. He IS! He has one 70 point season, and was "on pace" to get an even better one. He is a consistent 20+ goal scoring threat who might have just turned the corner and become a consistent 30+ goal scoring threat. There is nothing wrong with getting Duchene...unless it comes at the cost of Pacioretty and you are making a lateral move in terms of productivity. The age vs salary cap considerations balance out a bit, but we need a proven goal scoring threat and that is Pacioretty.

So, I would hope that the Habs would not make this trade. I feel Pacioretty IS the better player CURRENTLY, and with our deal to get Weber (giving up the younger and arguably better Subban in terms of production in order to get the Leadership and strength of Weber for a Cup run) we are trying to win the Cup NOW. Pacioretty is more proven for the NOW.

 

[Drydenwasthebest]

Sergachev is not included in any talks and Duchene is not moving to Montreal. Canadiens stay the course.

Wrong.

If the Avs wanted Sertgachev, a 1st and something else for Duchene, Bergevin would and should make that deal immediately. Sergachev might be astounding. Duchene IS astounding. If we could add Duchene to our current roster without giving up Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, or Gallagher, then we do it without an instant of hesitation. Put Duchene on this roster with the other 3 players and a healthy Price and we are so close to winning the Cup it can be tasted. Sergachev looks like he will be great, and I am glad we got him, but I move him for Duchene right now with a smile...and so would Bergevin.

 

[Drydenwasthebest]

At the trade deadline, if we're in a position to challenge, we'll see who is willing to drop a player.

Picks are usually the asking price for rentals and that's more likely to be, what we'd be looking to get.

Which has not exactly been great for us so far, under Bergevin. If the Avs would move 3 years of Duchene right now and wanted Sergachev + for him, I would do it in an instant. That is 3 years of incredible top 6 productivity towards winning the Cup over who knows how many years of whatever Sergachev may, OR MAY NOT, become. It is why I do not move Pacioretty for Duchene. Give me the guys we need to win a Cup now and over the next 3 seasons over a guy who might pan out to be something great later on.

 

[Legend123]

Wrong.

If the Avs wanted Sertgachev, a 1st and something else for Duchene, Bergevin would and should make that deal immediately. Sergachev might be astounding. Duchene IS astounding. If we could add Duchene to our current roster without giving up Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, or Gallagher, then we do it without an instant of hesitation. Put Duchene on this roster with the other 3 players and a healthy Price and we are so close to winning the Cup it can be tasted. Sergachev looks like he will be great, and I am glad we got him, but I move him for Duchene right now with a smile...and so would Bergevin.

Wrong, we learnt our lesson from the Gomez trade. Sergechev is a better prospect than McD was. He became a #1D and the Habs regret that horrible trade. Sergechev has the potential to become a lot better and even impressed the Habs as the youngest player in the NHL. NO way they make the same mistake. Habs dont deal Sergs for Duchene. Avs dnt trade Duchene for any other MTL prospects. No deal will be made. As simple as that.

 

[ryan callahan]

Wrong, we learnt our lesson from the Gomez trade. Sergechev is a better prospect than McD was. He became a #1D and the Habs regret that horrible trade. Sergechev has the potential to become a lot better and even impressed the Habs as the youngest player in the NHL. NO way they make the same mistake. Habs dont deal Sergs for Duchene. Avs dnt trade Duchene for any other MTL prospects. No deal will be made. As simple as that.

Except Duchene is not even 26 yet and is a consistent 60 pts scorer who on some seasons hover right around PPG. I'd do Serg + 1st vs Duchene in half a heartbeat. And the fact that McD panned doesn't mean Serg will. Duchene is a near guaranteed 1C (unless massive injury problems) for many years to come.

 

[PTH]

Except Duchene is not even 26 yet and is a consistent 60 pts scorer who on some seasons hover right around PPG. I'd do Serg + 1st vs Duchene in half a heartbeat. And the fact that McD panned doesn't mean Serg will. Duchene is a near guaranteed 1C (unless massive injury problems) for many years to come.

I have to agree.... Duchene would give us another cornerstone in his prime, which fits well with the current core's prime, as well.

Sergachev might well be another McDonagh, but Duchene is no Gomez.

I'd compare this to Iginla for Niewendyk - I don't think the Stars ever regretted that deal, given that it gave them a core piece that helped get them a Cup.

My only reservations are about Duchene himself, does he have character or is he a problem, etc. Habs have a strong team spirit right now, we shouldn't add a problem child. I'm not saying Duchene is one, just that due diligence is required.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

I have to agree.... Duchene would give us another cornerstone in his prime, which fits well with the current core's prime, as well.

Sergachev might well be another McDonagh, but Duchene is no Gomez.

I'd compare this to Iginla for Niewendyk - I don't think the Stars ever regretted that deal, given that it gave them a core piece that helped get them a Cup.

My only reservations are about Duchene himself, does he have character or is he a problem, etc. Habs have a strong team spirit right now, we shouldn't add a problem child. I'm not saying Duchene is one, just that due diligence is required.

The only complaint anyone has ever had about Duchene is that he briefly celebrated his 30th goal during a loss. There is a reason he gets picked to pretty much every tournament team.

That is also why the Avs would need a lot of incentive to move him.

 

[Hennessy]

Wrong, we learnt our lesson from the Gomez trade. Sergechev is a better prospect than McD was. He became a #1D and the Habs regret that horrible trade. Sergechev has the potential to become a lot better and even impressed the Habs as the youngest player in the NHL. NO way they make the same mistake. Habs dont deal Sergs for Duchene. Avs dnt trade Duchene for any other MTL prospects. No deal will be made. As simple as that.

This is delusional to a worrying degree.

 

[Legend123]

Except Duchene is not even 26 yet and is a consistent 60 pts scorer who on some seasons hover right around PPG. I'd do Serg + 1st vs Duchene in half a heartbeat. And the fact that McD panned doesn't mean Serg will. Duchene is a near guaranteed 1C (unless massive injury problems) for many years to come.

You pretty much described Gomez lol. Nice try though. The only difference at that time was Gomez would be 3 years older when both trades are to be made.

 

[Habitant le colon]

Again, I want the proven 30 + goal scoring threat (4 times is proven, once is not). I want the proven 60+ point producer, not the one time 70 point producer.

Context is also important in relation to stats. Duchene was gifted top 6 minutes from the time he was drafted. Pacioretty was brought up in a system where he started in the bottom 6. Pacioretty plays for the Habs, a team that does not give kids top line minutes right out of the draft (Pacioretty had 12:37 toi/game and 49 minutes of pp time for that season. Duchene was given 17:43toi/g and 246.52 minutes of pp time that season.) whereas Duchene was given top six minutes right away...along with top 6 line mates. So, when you try and toss out foolishness like "Duchene hit 67 points when he was 20. Pacioretty didnt come close to that until he was 24" and forget that there are educated hockey fans on this site who know a lot more than what simple contextless numbers state, you look like a ... well, to be polite, someone being incredibly disingenuous in order to pretend to know what he is talking about.

Again, that 0.76 ppg vs 0.71 ppg stat is equally contextually trite when you look at the same thing I pointed out above. The reason it took Pacioretty until the age of 24 has nothing to do with his skill, and everything to do with how the Habs as an organization develop their players. When Pacioretty FINALLY got top 6 ice time, he PRODUCED CONSISTENTLY: 4 out of 5 seasons he scored 30+ goals and 60+ seasons. The one season in that time frame he did not produce was because it was strike shortened: he played 44 games and produced 39 points which might have turned into a 72 point season if you believe pro-rated stats ( am not a fan of them). Duchene has not proven to be able to outproduce Pacioretty with similar ice time.

Are you starting to see why tossing out contextless numbers is meaningless tripe?

By the way, this in NO WAY means Duchene is not a stud young player with even more potential to get better. He IS! He has one 70 point season, and was "on pace" to get an even better one. He is a consistent 20+ goal scoring threat who might have just turned the corner and become a consistent 30+ goal scoring threat. There is nothing wrong with getting Duchene...unless it comes at the cost of Pacioretty and you are making a lateral move in terms of productivity. The age vs salary cap considerations balance out a bit, but we need a proven goal scoring threat and that is Pacioretty.

So, I would hope that the Habs would not make this trade. I feel Pacioretty IS the better player CURRENTLY, and with our deal to get Weber (giving up the younger and arguably better Subban in terms of production in order to get the Leadership and strength of Weber for a Cup run) we are trying to win the Cup NOW. Pacioretty is more proven for the NOW.

You know that there fan base will ultimatly try to crush the player instead of try fitting him in the line up and that where this whole site is rigged from the start as the GOP !

 

[Avs44]

You know that there fan base will ultimatly try to crush the player instead of try fitting him in the line up and that where this whole site is rigged from the start as the GOP !

You have gone off a cliff. Get over it, your proposal isn't very good.

 

[Habitant le colon]

You have gone off a cliff. Get over it, your proposal isn't very good.

the value is there, only the fan are overreacting to it !

 

[Avs44]

the value is there, only the fan are overreacting to it !

It has been carefully explained to you why it does not work. If you still don't get it, it's your problem.

 

[Avsblitzkrieg]

the value is there, only the fan are overreacting to it !

You do realize it takes two to tango right?