Colorado Avalanche

[mooseOAK*]

Sure...

oh wait..

We built around Joe Sakic... I guess he was an UFA

We build around Patrick Roy... wow.. he too was an UFA

And that Rob Blake guy... gee.. him too?

Oh, the wings built around that slouch, think his last name started with a Y? Was he at one point an UFA?

How about that...

Sakic had Roy and Blake around him, Roy had Blake and Sakic, Blake had Sakic and Roy. Yzerman had similar talent around him.

What will Hejduk have that is remotely similar?

 

[Hasbro]

Denver as a market pulled the best TV ratings for hockey in the last Olympic games (Olympic hockey rates about halfway down the page). But I'm still suspect as well. Denver has been twice tested. When they had an awful team, no one showed up. When they had a great team, people showed up in droves. Let's see what happens when they have a mediocre team. That tends to be the true test of support.

Minnesota and the Bay area made the most of their second chance. Of course the ex-Rockies still couldn't draw when they become great in their new city.

The city was alot different then. The government isn't antagonistic towards sports now either (we have the distinction of giving back the winter Olympics in 1976.)

Why don't people ask these questions about Dallas?

 

[wazee]

Just for the record, I am going to re-post my 'history of the Colorado Rockies' . I post this about once a year so if you read it last year, just scroll on by. I generally post this in response to a whole bunch of negative posts bashing Avs fans, but I am pleased to see this thread has not degenerated into that...

Anyway...here is the sad story of the Colorado Rockies...

In August of 1976, the NHL announced that Jack Vickers, a Denver businessman, had purchased the expansion Kansas City Scouts and the team would be moving to Colorado to become the Colorado Rockies. The timing could hardly have been worse. Not only was it late to begin a season ticket drive. It also marked the beginning of the Broncos first winning season. Yep. It was the year of the Orange Crush, ‘Make them Miracles Happen’ at Mile High. From the first game of the season until the Super Bowl loss to Dallas in January of 1977, Denver was totally wrapped up in their love affair with their football team. I have not seen anything quite like it in Denver before or since. Still, there was a solid core of hockey fans who turned out game in and game out despite the poor level of play.

Unfortunately for the loyal Rockies fans, after two years, Jack Vickers sold the team. The new owner, Auther Imperatore immediately announced his intent to move the team to New Jersey. The NHL refused to allow the team to leave until the Meadowlands was completed but that announcement doomed the Rockies. It is nearly impossible to build a fan base for a team that has announced they are leaving even if the ownership tries to do so…and these owners did not.

Two years later, in 1980, Peter Gilbert purchased the team and again petitioned the NHL to allow the team to be moved to New Jersey. The NHL again blocked the move…but when Gilbert’s mafia ties hit the headlines, the NHL approved the sale of the Rockies to John McMillan in 1982 and gave him permission to move the team to the Meadowlands.

The Rockies owners did more to discourage attendance that did the owner of the Cleveland Indians in the film Major League. Actually, she was a huge upgrade over the Rockies owners. At least, she wasn’t married to the mob.

 

[Jester]

the avs are the most popular hockey team in the world...they have fans in canada and many of them across the seas. there have been articles in the DP trying to legitimize these statements.

tv ratings suggest the flyers and detroit are the two most popular teams in the US...

 

[wazee]

Sakic had Roy and Blake around him, Roy had Blake and Sakic, Blake had Sakic and Roy. Yzerman had similar talent around him.

What will Hejduk have that is remotely similar?

Who knows. It will be a far different NHL when it finally comes back. I have always thought the owners would trade a salary cap for a lower UFA age and I still think that will be the case. If so, the Avs will be able to fill the gaps around Hejduk. If not, they will have to rebuild. Happens to all teams eventually...

 

[Drury_Sakic]

Sakic had Roy and Blake around him, Roy had Blake and Sakic, Blake had Sakic and Roy. Yzerman had similar talent around him.

What will Hejduk have that is remotely similar?

Tanguay, Liles, Abby, Vanny(turning into a footish type player), Svatos

All are valid..

Granted, the Avs have about a 2 year gap in tallent due to Nedorost, and other poor 1st round picks that did not pan out...

But there is far from a lack of big time players...

 

[Drury_Sakic]

tv ratings suggest the flyers and detroit are the two most popular teams in the US...

I thought I read somewhere that the Avs brought in the best ratings...

But I could be wrong..

I think the article stated that the Avs, Stars, Wings, Rangers, and Flyers(might be missing one or two) brought in roughly 3 times the ratings of the other teams in the league.

That partly due to winning... and partly due to marketing and player familiartity(sp)..and mostly due to band wagoning... but most fans start out as a band-wagon fan.. Honestly, its rare to start liking a team that is a loser, unless you like one or two particular players.. The hope is that you keep 1 out of those 5 fans when the team suffers from a decline in talent and rebuilds..

 

[ColoradoHockeyFan]

tv ratings suggest the flyers and detroit are the two most popular teams in the US...

Denver, Detroit, and Philadelphia are all great hockey markets. In any given year, you can find examples of Denver and Detroit (and I imagine Philadelphia) at or near the top in ratings, in no particular order. For example:

http://www.detnews.com/2002/sports/0206/03/a01-505146.htm

"Detroit was second in playoff ratings this year with a 9.8 rating, behind just Denver, which had a 14.7."

This was, of course, in 2002 after the Wings had eliminated the Avs. Still great overall playoff viewing numbers, though.

 

[Drury_Sakic]

Why don't people ask these questions about Dallas?

Dallas will be a great case study for the Avs to monitor.. The way I see it, they are about 2-3 years ahead of the Avs in relation to the winning-rebulding model.. Their core is older on average, and they are starting to let some core guys go(Hatcher)....

But the market is arguably different in relation to "other things to do" in dallas/texas vs. Denver/colorado.

 

[Hasbro]

Dallas will be a great case study for the Avs to monitor.. The way I see it, they are about 2-3 years ahead of the Avs in relation to the winning-rebulding model.. Their core is older on average, and they are starting to let some core guys go(Hatcher)....

But the market is arguably different in relation to "other things to do" in dallas/texas vs. Denver/colorado.

Of course for all the bricks hurled at our market head to head Dallas comes out worse in just about every case.

 

[ColoradoHockeyFan]

Of course for all the bricks hurled at our market head to head Dallas comes out worse in just about every case.

There certainly does seem to be a difference. The Stars have had a run of success that very much parallels what the Avs have had. Yet during that time, the Stars still seem to be at the bottom of the sports totem pole in Dallas. In addition, what have non-Stars ratings (overall NHL ratings) for playoff and regular season hockey been like in Dallas? What were Olympic hockey ratings like there? What is overall community/regional interest in the sport? There are also some inherent differences in the environment itself, of course. Here in Colorado we can play hockey outdoors every winter... whether it's to the west on the more organized lakes or throughout the metro area on ponds in places like Boulder, Longmont, Arvada, southwest of Denver off of highway 285 (just to name a few that I've personally either played or known others who've played). I don't imagine there's outdoor hockey in Dallas, so that's a natural disadvantage.

 

[Shadder]

tv ratings suggest the flyers and detroit are the two most popular teams in the US...

While I agree with you, I also think that there is much more to it than that. You have to factor other things into the mix such as jersey sales as just one example. I seem to recall seeing something that had those stats, not just jerseys but overall team stuff that put the Wings on top of the league in overall sales.

You might also want to take a look at how a given team draws on the road. For example, two years ago the Wings paid a visit to Atlanta to play the Thrashers. The entire arena was a sea of red and white . You would have thought that you were at the Joe. Granted a large part of the pouplation of Atlanta is made up of midwestern transplants but still that was one of the few sell outs the Thrashers had that season.

 

[Hasbro]

There certainly does seem to be a difference. The Stars have had a run of success that very much parallels what the Avs have had. Yet during that time, the Stars still seem to be at the bottom of the sports totem pole in Dallas. In addition, what have non-Stars ratings (overall NHL ratings) for playoff and regular season hockey been like in Dallas? What were Olympic hockey ratings like there? What is overall community/regional interest in the sport? There are also some inherent differences in the environment itself, of course. Here in Colorado we can play hockey outdoors every winter... whether it's to the west on the more organized lakes or throughout the metro area on ponds in places like Boulder, Longmont, Arvada, southwest of Denver off of highway 285 (just to name a few that I've personally either played or known others who've played). I don't imagine there's outdoor hockey in Dallas, so that's a natural disadvantage.

That's one area where I think we lack a bit, given we don't have any water.

 

[Hasbro]

While I agree with you, I also think that there is much more to it than that. You have to factor other things into the mix such as jersey sales as just one example. I seem to recall seeing something that had those stats, not just jerseys but overall team stuff that put the Wings on top of the league in overall sales.

You might also want to take a look at how a given team draws on the road. For example, two years ago the Wings paid a visit to Atlanta to play the Thrashers. The entire arena was a sea of red and white . You would have thought that you were at the Joe. Granted a large part of the pouplation of Atlanta is made up of midwestern transplants but still that was one of the few sell outs the Thrashers had that season.

Lot of Detroit fans here too (maybe it has something to do with Detroit being a Bladerunneresque hellhole.)

 

[nyrmessier011]

comparing the Avs to the Cubs is just insane

Haha that's what I thought too. I think the Avs will always be fine. Denver is a good market and there's plenty of Colorado fans around the country. There definetly one of Americans favorite teams. Besides that fact, more importantly they sell out basically every game whether there playing well or not. And it's Colorado, it's a good market to begin with for sports and they have a good youth hockey base

 

[Drury_Sakic]

As far as the Cubs comparison goes..

Give it at LEAST another 30 years and a few strings of suckeyness before we get that far..

 

[Tap on the Ankle]

I think it's true that a good chunk of the Avalanche's long-distance fans will diminish with the eventual departure of Sakic, Forsberg, Blake, etc. However, I don't think the Avs will run into any serious financial troubles whenever they go into rebuild mode. They've had a lot of success in the past ten years and have built a strong local fanbase as a result of it.

 

[Belgican]

Another aspect comes the Avs history, they also have a very large fans assets in Quebec, Sweden (Forsberg), and Europe in general (France, Belgium, Tchech Republic) due to the fact there were winners, all over the way. These guys are very loyal, and wil remain Avs fans for a long time, sure they still have to suffer losses and missing playoffs, but the fact is, most fans are loyals, and the Avs are very popular in Quebec and in Europe, from father to son.

 

[ColoradoHockeyFan]

Plus, Forsberg could have another 5-6 season with the franchise if he comes back from Europe.

Doesn't sound likely anymore. This story is now breaking all over Denver radio, newspaper, etc.

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~84~2755649,00.html

 

[demonic]

Wow, you people are touchy. I thought it was pretty obvious that I was speaking from my personal experiences in dealing with the 20-25 Avs fans that I talk to, but I guess I need to be more obvious in the future. How's this? Of all the friends and coworkers that call themselves Avs fans, maybe one or two of them watch games involving other teams, watched the World Cup, and really seem to miss the game. Only one has actually played the game, and I couldn't find anyone that watched the WJC. Also, there isn't a rink within 5 miles of my house, and I had to try 6 different sports stores to find a pair of skates my size last year. Yeah, it's not Canada, but it's not Minnesota, Michigan or New England either. This is probably why John Grahame might be the best player to ever come out of Colorado.

Anyway, I think Denver will prove to be a decent American hockey town, but not in the top 5. There obviously are some real hardcore fans here, but for the most part, this city just loves a winner. That is why the Mammoth are setting NLL attendance records but the Rockies can barely get a crowd. If anyone disagrees with this statement, please name one losing team besides the Broncos that the city has stuck behind.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

as a Cubs fan, don't care the Avs with the Cubs...while they have alot of fans, I don't think they're even in the top 3 most popular teams (Leafs, Canadiens, Red Wings)

heck, hockey isnt even the number 1 sport in Denver..the Broncos are more popular
plus they haven't had to go through 96 years of not winning a championship

 

[Hasbro]

Wow, you people are touchy. I thought it was pretty obvious that I was speaking from my personal experiences in dealing with the 20-25 Avs fans that I talk to, but I guess I need to be more obvious in the future. How's this? Of all the friends and coworkers that call themselves Avs fans, maybe one or two of them watch games involving other teams, watched the World Cup, and really seem to miss the game. Only one has actually played the game, and I couldn't find anyone that watched the WJC. Also, there isn't a rink within 5 miles of my house, and I had to try 6 different sports stores to find a pair of skates my size last year.

5 MILES?!

Yeah, it's not Canada, but it's not Minnesota, Michigan or New England either. This is probably why John Grahame might be the best player to ever come out of Colorado.

Kevin Dineen.

Anyway, I think Denver will prove to be a decent American hockey town, but not in the top 5. There obviously are some real hardcore fans here, but for the most part, this city just loves a winner.

weren't here before 96 were you?

That is why the Mammoth are setting NLL attendance records but the Rockies can barely get a crowd. If anyone disagrees with this statement, please name one losing team besides the Broncos that the city has stuck behind.

Nuggets

 

[ColoradoHockeyFan]

Wow, you people are touchy. I thought it was pretty obvious that I was speaking from my personal experiences in dealing with the 20-25 Avs fans that I talk to, but I guess I need to be more obvious in the future. How's this? Of all the friends and coworkers that call themselves Avs fans, maybe one or two of them watch games involving other teams, watched the World Cup, and really seem to miss the game. Only one has actually played the game, and I couldn't find anyone that watched the WJC. Also, there isn't a rink within 5 miles of my house, and I had to try 6 different sports stores to find a pair of skates my size last year. Yeah, it's not Canada, but it's not Minnesota, Michigan or New England either. This is probably why John Grahame might be the best player to ever come out of Colorado.

Anyway, I think Denver will prove to be a decent American hockey town, but not in the top 5. There obviously are some real hardcore fans here, but for the most part, this city just loves a winner. That is why the Mammoth are setting NLL attendance records but the Rockies can barely get a crowd. If anyone disagrees with this statement, please name one losing team besides the Broncos that the city has stuck behind.

And I can drive 10 minutes in virtually any direction and hit a rink. I just don't see how you can feel that your tiny, limited, anecdotal set of observations can possibly trump mountains of substantial evidence (much of which has been discussed in this thread) when it comes to evaluating an entire hockey market. There is nothing of substance here to discredit this as a top hockey market in the US.

 

[ColoradoHockeyFan]

heck, hockey isnt even the number 1 sport in Denver..the Broncos are more popular
plus they haven't had to go through 96 years of not winning a championship

Football is the number one sport in the US, by miles, period. There's nothing special about Denver in this respect. Outside of a few (very few) cities in which baseball is the dominant sport (e.g., Boston), football is the most popular sport in every US market. There's no reason to single out Denver in this respect whatsoever. And this doesn't detract from Denver's standing as a terrific hockey market.

 

[Hasbro]

as a Cubs fan, don't care the Avs with the Cubs...while they have alot of fans, I don't think they're even in the top 3 most popular teams (Leafs, Canadiens, Red Wings)

TSN's last reader poll had us fifth 3rd out of the US, ESPN's sportsnation survey had us as 2nd US

heck, hockey isnt even the number 1 sport in Denver..the Broncos are more popular
plus they haven't had to go through 96 years of not winning a championship

And I'll tell you why Detroit is the lone exception in the US, THE LIONS!