Collapse of Regional Sports Networks (Diamond Sports Group files bankruptcy, Warner-Discovery looking to leave business, Xfinity drops Bally)

[rojac]

One problem was the 5% cap inflator the PA kept using. Artificially raising the cap.

Franchise fees paid by Vegas and Seattle have zero impact on the cap, since they are not part of HRR.

If you’ve been watching financials for 10 years. thought you would have known about the franchise fees.

Because the cap, pre-2020, was calculated from the previous season;s HRR. So, each year, the NHL would calculate what the previous season's HRR was. The NHL and NHLPA would then negotiate a 0-5% escalator for to represent an estimate of how much revenues would go up in the current season.

So, basically:

Current season's estimated HRR = Previous season's HRR + Escalator

The current season's estimated HRR is then divided by 2 to get the player share which is then divided by 32 to get the midpoint (halfway between the upper limit and the floor).

While we don't have HRR numbers (that I know of), I was able to find actual revenue numbers.

NHL Yearly Revenue Chart​

Year	Revenue (USD Billions)
2020/21	2.90
2019/20	4.40
2018/19	5.09
2017/18	4.86
2016/17	4.43
2015/16	4.1
2014/15	3.98
2013/14	3.7
2012/13	2.63
2011/12	3.37
2010/11	3.09
2009/10	2.93

If you look at the numbers, I think there are only two non-shortened years in which the real revenues didn't go up by at least 5%. In 2015-2016, revenues only went up 3.79% and in 2018-19, they went up 4.73%. I think it's fair to assume that HRR numbers follow a similar pattern. I also seem to recall that there were seasons where the PA and the league agreed on an escalator lower than 5%. So, I don't think the escalator has had as big an effect on escrow as some think.

What I think has had a bigger effect is the number of teams that have been spending well above the midpoint.
Basically, if the amount of money spent above the midpoint equals the amount spent below the midpoint, then escrow should be ~0 %. The more money spent above the midpoint, the higher escrow will be. I took a look at the archived info on CapFriendly for seasons since 2015-16. In that time, no season had more thn 5 teams below the midpoint. That's an awful lot of money above the midpoint.

 

[Byrddog]

One problem was the 5% cap inflator the PA kept using. Artificially raising the cap.

Franchise fees paid by Vegas and Seattle have zero impact on the cap, since they are not part of HRR.

If you’ve been watching financials for 10 years. thought you would have known about the franchise fees.

The franchise fees did in fact effect profitability. Each team was given number of dollars according to Daily from his presser when they had missed prediction that the cap would increase by 2.9 if I recall that number right. Daily said the fee distribution from the expansion team would allow the league to increase the cap by 1.5 mil that year because of the fee. He also indicated that it would need to be approved by the Board of Gov at there spring meeting that year. Now could all of that-be whitewash, I guess so.

As you point out the 5% was another issue. So was profit sharing and how the league distributed it.

 

[AintLifeGrand]

Could this lead to another wave of expansion to offset the lost revenue from the RSNs??

 

[Golden_Jet]

Because the cap, pre-2020, was calculated from the previous season;s HRR. So, each year, the NHL would calculate what the previous season's HRR was. The NHL and NHLPA would then negotiate a 0-5% escalator for to represent an estimate of how much revenues would go up in the current season.

So, basically:

Current season's estimated HRR = Previous season's HRR + Escalator

The current season's estimated HRR is then divided by 2 to get the player share which is then divided by 32 to get the midpoint (halfway between the upper limit and the floor).

While we don't have HRR numbers (that I know of), I was able to find actual revenue numbers.

NHL Yearly Revenue Chart​

Year	Revenue (USD Billions)
2020/21	2.90
2019/20	4.40
2018/19	5.09
2017/18	4.86
2016/17	4.43
2015/16	4.1
2014/15	3.98
2013/14	3.7
2012/13	2.63
2011/12	3.37
2010/11	3.09
2009/10	2.93

If you look at the numbers, I think there are only two non-shortened years in which the real revenues didn't go up by at least 5%. In 2015-2016, revenues only went up 3.79% and in 2018-19, they went up 4.73%. I think it's fair to assume that HRR numbers follow a similar pattern. I also seem to recall that there were seasons where the PA and the league agreed on an escalator lower than 5%. So, I don't think the escalator has had as big an effect on escrow as some think.

What I think has had a bigger effect is the number of teams that have been spending well above the midpoint.
Basically, if the amount of money spent above the midpoint equals the amount spent below the midpoint, then escrow should be ~0 %. The more money spent above the midpoint, the higher escrow will be. I took a look at the archived info on CapFriendly for seasons since 2015-16. In that time, no season had more thn 5 teams below the midpoint. That's an awful lot of money above the midpoint.

Yes that’s how it would still be done, if we didn’t have a pandemic.

ATM players are paying back, and yes with most teams above the midpoint escrow is higher, because revenues don’t match spending.

then add in the escalator , it became really inflated, and escrow ballooned.
Now it’s $1 million increase until paid off, assuming HRR above a certain threshold.
Escrow is now fixed number each year until MOU expires.

 

[Golden_Jet]

The franchise fees did in fact effect profitability. Each team was given number of dollars according to Daily from his presser when they had missed prediction that the cap would increase by 2.9 if I recall that number right. Daily said the fee distribution from the expansion team would allow the league to increase the cap by 1.5 mil that year because of the fee. He also indicated that it would need to be approved by the Board of Gov at there spring meeting that year. Now could all of that-be whitewash, I guess so.

As you point out the 5% was another issue. So was profit sharing and how the league distributed it.

Yes it increased owners profitability those years, never said it didn’t.

Expansion fee money was divided between the teams and does not count as revenues, zero affect on HRR or the cap. Money strictly in owners pocket, as I previously said.

35 % of profit sharing is from playoff revenues.

Edit:

Growth of revenues going to come from?​

Expansion fees – the NHL has recently increased their revenue through the expansion of the Vegas Golden Knights and Seattle Kraken, which accounted for $500 million and $650 million to their coffers. The owners swung a good deal as they did not need to count it is Hockey Related Revenue– this means they didn’t need to share it with the players.

 

[TheLegend]

I'm not saying like half the league but cut it to 26-28

Try selling that one to the players union.

 

[mouser]

Because the cap, pre-2020, was calculated from the previous season;s HRR. So, each year, the NHL would calculate what the previous season's HRR was. The NHL and NHLPA would then negotiate a 0-5% escalator for to represent an estimate of how much revenues would go up in the current season.

So, basically:

Current season's estimated HRR = Previous season's HRR + Escalator

The current season's estimated HRR is then divided by 2 to get the player share which is then divided by 32 to get the midpoint (halfway between the upper limit and the floor).

While we don't have HRR numbers (that I know of), I was able to find actual revenue numbers.

NHL Yearly Revenue Chart​

Year	Revenue (USD Billions)
2020/21	2.90
2019/20	4.40
2018/19	5.09
2017/18	4.86
2016/17	4.43
2015/16	4.1
2014/15	3.98
2013/14	3.7
2012/13	2.63
2011/12	3.37
2010/11	3.09
2009/10	2.93

If you look at the numbers, I think there are only two non-shortened years in which the real revenues didn't go up by at least 5%. In 2015-2016, revenues only went up 3.79% and in 2018-19, they went up 4.73%. I think it's fair to assume that HRR numbers follow a similar pattern. I also seem to recall that there were seasons where the PA and the league agreed on an escalator lower than 5%. So, I don't think the escalator has had as big an effect on escrow as some think.

What I think has had a bigger effect is the number of teams that have been spending well above the midpoint.
Basically, if the amount of money spent above the midpoint equals the amount spent below the midpoint, then escrow should be ~0 %. The more money spent above the midpoint, the higher escrow will be. I took a look at the archived info on CapFriendly for seasons since 2015-16. In that time, no season had more thn 5 teams below the midpoint. That's an awful lot of money above the midpoint.

By definition the Escalator couldn’t impact Escrow by more than 5% (times 1.15) in any single season as it doesn’t compound year over year.

I suspect a lot of posters (not you) incorrectly believe the Escalator compounds.

 

[mouser]

Correct me if I am wrong but the rights have been bought in order for the broadcasters to have sole right to that team to broadcast that teams games. And what you say is true the teams could buy back those rights. The issue still remains the monies paid by Bally for instance has been cooked into the P/L of the league and each team. Loss of that revenue impacts the financial stability of the league and the team resulting is less operations money and will impact how much teams can spend on salaries. It would impact the CAP in a negative way. Even if the Cap was to be frozen teams would have to impose spending limits individually in order to remain solvent.

Now many are going to say but the individual teams owning there rights would profit from controlling the advertising. Like I said before if these broadcasting networks are unable to sell enough advertising to remain profitable how can one expect 31 teams to buy back the rights spin up a broadcasting ability and be able to not just gush losses in the environment right now. There are just not enough fans that are going to pay for programming in each market. Even in huge markets like New York the fans are broken up into Rangers, Islanders Buffalo and even New Jersey fans making the fan pie sections smaller. Now could an agreement be made where the league owns the broadcasting rights and provides a product like Center Ice used to be? Yeah I guess that could happen but the problem would sill remain equipment personnel and even satellite costs would be prohibitive. The satellite cost alone would be astronomical. Then there is the fact that across the league there are 9 to 14 teams that show a profit for any given year, Forbes reports these numbers yearly. There is just no way to expect the teams and the league could produce the income to cover broadcasting but imagine if they could produce the same amount that broadcasting has paid the league in the past. I for one do not believe that the league could manage that money to a break even much less profit. How often have the bean counters I. The league been right since inception of the cap? Like this year in Oct They ran Bettman out to announce that the cap would increase 4 mil now what ten days or so ago he has to drop that number to 1 million if the last part of the season can finish well. Then the TV issues with Bally come to light which snowballs to all the TV revenue streams, the result is uncertainty. Personally if the chapter 11 comes out at 50% reduction there is going to be a cap reduction.. How much is big speculation I read one article that indicated best case a 1 mil reduction and worst case 11 mil reduction. Ones a really bad number the other a crippling number, like most things the final result will probably be in the middle. Some think this would just be for a year I just do not see it the impact is going to be at least 5 years before there will be any confidence stabilization has happened. Hopefully there is some moving parts we do not see that will for a better word save the league. Cost control must be established in every organization and spending like a drunken sailor is over. If not in the end the NHL could revert to a 12 team league.

There should be no need for a cap reduction. What we’ll see is the Escrow Balance payback extended a season or two and the $1m/year flat cap increases continue.

In a way it’s fortunate this is happening when the NHL and PA already have an agreement in place which is currently holding the salary cap lower than it otherwise would have been.

 

[Golden_Jet]

By definition the Escalator couldn’t impact Escrow by more than 5% (times 1.15) in any single season as it doesn’t compound year over year.

I suspect a lot of posters (not you) incorrectly believe the Escalator compounds.

Not sure if you’re including me in that list, if so, then that would be wrong,
I’m not sure why anyone would think it would compound, when each season, is a unique season, and finances are tied to that year only. Following year it starts a anew.

 

[mouser]

Not sure if you’re including me in that list, if so, then that would be wrong,
I’m not sure why anyone would think it would compound, when each season, is a unique season, and finances are tied to that year only. Following year it starts a anew.

I‘m not calling out anyone in this thread. Unfortunately it is a common misunderstanding on the forums, and not surprisingly so. It isn’t unreasonable to think the cap somehow compounds itself year to year like interest on a bank savings account.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I‘m not calling out anyone in this thread. Unfortunately it is a common misunderstanding on the forums, and not surprisingly so. It isn’t unreasonable to think the cap somehow compounds itself year to year like interest on a bank savings account.

That’s fair, numbers guy here.
There is a lot of misinformation or misunderstanding on subjects.

 

[Djp]

Cable and dish are becoming a thing of the past with their unaffordable prices (especially for sports) on top of internet. Thats why streaming has been the future.

I have to think literally no one but sports fans have cable or a dish anymore. Even as the years have gone by since streaming came out, sports fans are getting smarter and cutting the cord to save a $.

So im thinking (hoping) this is a good thing and hopefully blackouts will also be a thing of the past.

false….

streaming has a bunch of problems too.

look at the prices for streaming channels vs cable. Streaming prices are just going to go up for the same reason cable has gone up because you have to pay for all this extra content


a la cart cable if you could just choose the stations you want and not the 100+ others. For me it’s about 10-12 non network tv stations I watch.


many, I think, don’t realize the costs when they just want everything for cheap. Or free.

 

[Djp]

Cable and dish are becoming a thing of the past with their unaffordable prices (especially for sports) on top of internet. Thats why streaming has been the future.

I have to think literally no one but sports fans have cable or a dish anymore. Even as the years have gone by since streaming came out, sports fans are getting smarter and cutting the cord to save a $.

So im thinking (hoping) this is a good thing and hopefully blackouts will also be a thing of the past.

Also…if blackouts go away, the costs of streaming sports will increase significantly because those making the broadcasts possible will be getting revenue from national streaming.

What's coherent from that is a bunch of nonsense.

Cost control has worked as expected. And once they were able to determine that player salaries were tied to revenues, the owners can continue to reduce the percentage paid out in each CBA negotiation.

The purpose of the cap was not to give small market teams a chance. That's just so ridiculously silly to believe. First of all, small market teams had a chance in the pre-Cap era since the age of UFA was so high that teams controlled the prime years of players they drafted. Teams in Detroit, Denver and New Jersey dominated the league in the years leading up to 2004. None of those could be considered big market teams.

The cap (and related lower age of UFA) was designed to control costs, which it has surely done since top player salaries are only now exceeding the pre-2004 levels, and to help direct the very best players to the biggest markets like we see in the NBA. An Atlanta Thrashers executive, I believe it was Stan Kasten, stated as much. The movement of stars like Crosby and McDavid has sort of failed because hockey players are rather conservative with their contracts and would rather commit to long term deals as soon as possible instead of positioning themselves to move to the big markets.

The ten biggest US markets are NY, LA, Chicago, Philly, Dallas, Bay Area, Atlanta, Houston, DC and Boston. In the 17 Cup winners since the cap was implemented there's been a Cup winner from the biggest team in those markets 7 times. The 17 Cup winners prior to the cap had the biggest team from those markets win twice.

Assen na yo!

in the past, the good teams went out to buy the better players to keep their teams good. I believe it was Detroit I heard thst the playoff revenue covered operating costs ehere only if they made the conf finals would the team break even. Some of it wasn’t the market they were in, but the owners play money.

thr cap prevents the bigger markets who can make more local revenue from being all star teams.

the biggest market teams also sucked and got a few top 5 picks thst thry built very good teams from.

unlike other sports, hockey doesn’t tap into the ad markets like players in other leagues get into. Being in bigger markets, help market the player where being on finals teams gains popularity and ad revenue.

 

[varsaku]

Looking at MLS season pass today on Apple TV I was very impressed. It was a huge step up from the RSN production. MLS360 with its Redzone type show was brilliant. Definitely room for improvement but great to start. I actually expected a lot of hiccups but I didn’t notice any.

If that is what hockey fans might get and more with a deeper pocket league like the NHL. I am actively hoping RSNs fail and NHL with other leagues switches to this model. Yes, it is not great for the financials. But honestly being more accessible and providing great content is required for drawing in new fans or even keeping current fans happy.

 

[Byrddog]

There should be no need for a cap reduction. What we’ll see is the Escrow Balance payback extended a season or two and the $1m/year flat cap increases continue.

In a way it’s fortunate this is happening when the NHL and PA already have an agreement in place which is currently holding the salary cap lower than it otherwise would have been.

Ok how will the league make up for lost TV revenue? Also according to NHL.com. The number of ticket sold in 2000 and the number of tickets sold in 2021 was increased less than 300,000 . Just the two new teams should have added a little over 1 million tickets sold based on average attendance. This years ticket sales are projected to be down to just 20.5 million sold where at full capacity it would be just over 38 million. From a quick look it appears this is where the league continually misses it projection. The numbers reported honestly make no sense if they were true numbers attendance would equal 53% we know that is not true. The numbers the league reports are at best suspect. The numbers Forbes reports annually on market or team profitability I have more confidence in. And when you have more than half of the teams showing loss each year further muddies the water. From all sources of income the league gets X the players get Y and management of each side gets a cut. The players escrow in reality is a slush fund moving due to profitability a number that ghe players really does not trust t be reported accurately. Then again no Union ever thinks the company reports accurately. But when a reputable outside party like Forbes reports profitability it is far closer. If the league was a common stock which is appraised as Buy-Hold-Sell no year after 2004 would be considered a Buy. The business model has become brittle trust between mgmt and labor has been tenuous resulting in work stoppage and neither side considers cost to the consumer. This is a recipe for collapse, it always has been. It is the direct cause that non government unions have dropped from 48% in the 1950’s to only 8% in 2021. As it applies to the current situation with the cap. A 1 million rise in cap is just a 1.21 .% rise in the cap. And this is the foreseeable future optimistically. Something has to give. TV income is taking a hit now revenue from ticket sales has been flat to declining for years the other income streams are on shakey ground too from merch to concession sales are priced to the break point. 1.14% cap rise comes nowhere close to covering the ever increasing salary demands. Too many just glance and see a cap increase and believe and support the league is still healthy. I see it as a strung out crack addict missing teeth bags under the eyes and no openings in the rehab facility.

 

[Night Shift]

false….

streaming has a bunch of problems too.

look at the prices for streaming channels vs cable. Streaming prices are just going to go up for the same reason cable has gone up because you have to pay for all this extra content


a la cart cable if you could just choose the stations you want and not the 100+ others. For me it’s about 10-12 non network tv stations I watch.


many, I think, don’t realize the costs when they just want everything for cheap. Or free.

Yeah its expected that streaming will go up in the future. As it stands now its still cheaper than cable. I hardly know anyone that has cable anymore, even when I lived in PA (and now Florida). Especially non sports fans or people who don't watch tv.

Luckily for me being out of market I can watch all the Pens games through espn+, which had I still been in PA they would be blacked out.

It'll be interesting to see what happens and changes but it shouldn't suprise anyone this is coming to a head.

 

[mouser]

Ok how will the league make up for lost TV revenue? Also according to NHL.com. The number of ticket sold in 2000 and the number of tickets sold in 2021 was increased less than 300,000 . Just the two new teams should have added a little over 1 million tickets sold based on average attendance. This years ticket sales are projected to be down to just 20.5 million sold where at full capacity it would be just over 38 million. From a quick look it appears this is where the league continually misses it projection. The numbers reported honestly make no sense if they were true numbers attendance would equal 53% we know that is not true. The numbers the league reports are at best suspect. The numbers Forbes reports annually on market or team profitability I have more confidence in. And when you have more than half of the teams showing loss each year further muddies the water. From all sources of income the league gets X the players get Y and management of each side gets a cut. The players escrow in reality is a slush fund moving due to profitability a number that ghe players really does not trust t be reported accurately. Then again no Union ever thinks the company reports accurately. But when a reputable outside party like Forbes reports profitability it is far closer. If the league was a common stock which is appraised as Buy-Hold-Sell no year after 2004 would be considered a Buy. The business model has become brittle trust between mgmt and labor has been tenuous resulting in work stoppage and neither side considers cost to the consumer. This is a recipe for collapse, it always has been. It is the direct cause that non government unions have dropped from 48% in the 1950’s to only 8% in 2021. As it applies to the current situation with the cap. A 1 million rise in cap is just a 1.21 .% rise in the cap. And this is the foreseeable future optimistically. Something has to give. TV income is taking a hit now revenue from ticket sales has been flat to declining for years the other income streams are on shakey ground too from merch to concession sales are priced to the break point. 1.14% cap rise comes nowhere close to covering the ever increasing salary demands. Too many just glance and see a cap increase and believe and support the league is still healthy. I see it as a strung out crack addict missing teeth bags under the eyes and no openings in the rehab facility.

The NHL doesn't have to to "make up for the lost TV revenue". The Players receive 50% of hockey revenue (HRR). If league TV revenue is reduced then HRR also goes down and the Players 50% share of that HRR also declines. The cap system is self correcting.

I'd also recommend using paragraphs to organize your thoughts.

 

[oknazevad]

Try selling that one to the players union.

Or to the fans of the teams proposed to be cut. Because you ever notice that people proposing this asinine concept never include their own team among the ones to be dropped?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Ok how will the league make up for lost TV revenue? Also according to NHL.com. The number of ticket sold in 2000 and the number of tickets sold in 2021 was increased less than 300,000 . Just the two new teams should have added a little over 1 million tickets sold based on average attendance. This years ticket sales are projected to be down to just 20.5 million sold where at full capacity it would be just over 38 million. From a quick look it appears this is where the league continually misses it projection. The numbers reported honestly make no sense if they were true numbers attendance would equal 53% we know that is not true. The numbers the league reports are at best suspect. The numbers Forbes reports annually on market or team profitability I have more confidence in. And when you have more than half of the teams showing loss each year further muddies the water. From all sources of income the league gets X the players get Y and management of each side gets a cut. The players escrow in reality is a slush fund moving due to profitability a number that ghe players really does not trust t be reported accurately. Then again no Union ever thinks the company reports accurately. But when a reputable outside party like Forbes reports profitability it is far closer. If the league was a common stock which is appraised as Buy-Hold-Sell no year after 2004 would be considered a Buy. The business model has become brittle trust between mgmt and labor has been tenuous resulting in work stoppage and neither side considers cost to the consumer. This is a recipe for collapse, it always has been. It is the direct cause that non government unions have dropped from 48% in the 1950’s to only 8% in 2021. As it applies to the current situation with the cap. A 1 million rise in cap is just a 1.21 .% rise in the cap. And this is the foreseeable future optimistically. Something has to give. TV income is taking a hit now revenue from ticket sales has been flat to declining for years the other income streams are on shakey ground too from merch to concession sales are priced to the break point. 1.14% cap rise comes nowhere close to covering the ever increasing salary demands. Too many just glance and see a cap increase and believe and support the league is still healthy. I see it as a strung out crack addict missing teeth bags under the eyes and no openings in the rehab facility.

Your Math is off

1312 games a year.
(32 teams x 82) / 2 = 1312

To get to 38 million that is about 29,000 fans a game. Sorry you had to type so much.

Should check first. Yesterday you thought expansion fee money counted as HRR.

Hope this helps

https://media.nhl.com/site/asset/public/ext/NHLPA_NHL_MOU.pdf

Especially first 6 pages or so.

 

[Byrddog]

The NHL doesn't have to to "make up for the lost TV revenue". The Players receive 50% of hockey revenue (HRR). If league TV revenue is reduced then HRR also goes down and the Players 50% share of that HRR also declines. The cap system is self correcting.

I'd also recommend using paragraphs to organize your thoughts.

I graduated college over 40 years ago. I have long since gotten away from the laws of grammar. I have tried to create paragraphs here with little success , see I was educated prior to the electronic revolution. And I have little to no interest in retraining.



Now broadcasting leagues wide radio TV both north and south of the border results in about 1 billion per year in revenue to this sport that reports it is a 4.5 billion per year league.




Now I know where your coming from the players in the CBA were given 50% share. Ant way you look at it 50% of a billion is a large chunk . When broadcasting is 1/4 of your revenue.



How is the 50% looked at by the players association? 50%gross or net? Since there is up to 5% escrow it’s net. The loss of any revenue stream will result in a drop in $$$$ available for cap purposes or and 50% payout. At some point accounting does come into play.


My point is the league is not as financially stable as many promote it to be. I have given resources where the PL statements or gone over. What I find on the boards here are a majority that fail to understand the significance of poor habits with money.

From the owners are swimming in money and can lose millions per year , they can not put themselves in that position what if it were there money. Outlandish money theory’s from people making blue collar money imagining what to spend on player x or y and why they are deserving. There is little that is rational. Just people behind a telephone or PC. Pontificating on a situation they have never been in. Pretending to be able to manage millions of dollars when they in real world live paycheck to paycheck paying thousands of dollars in interest each year and unable to afford one life emergency.



Here’s the bottom line. There is going to be a drop in revenue as a result of Bally and others overpaying for rights. The industry is in flux as cable and satellite die and streaming try’s to figure out the costing of there programming. The idea that the teams will be better off owning there own rights sounds good in theory but they will have two choices then. Sell the rights again or self produce there content and both are risky in the current environment.

How this will turn out is still unclear. At this point the losses look to be up to 10 mil per team . Future is so uncertain the talk is flat cap for a while. Done define a while as two or three more years some say five to ten. The leagues Poor growth over the last 20 years 1.14 percent per year average has not kept up with inflation but player salaries sure have.

There is a price point where people will stop buying. In my area 6 weeks ago eggs hit $7.39 a dozen. Sales fell at that price point actually about stopped. Yesterday the price of a dozen eggs was $5.29. Now some will say good people showed protest and stopped paying that high rate. Or could it just be that at $7.39 they did not fit in the budget anymore?


That’s where the league is. It will rest but there will be carnage left behind.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I graduated college over 40 years ago. I have long since gotten away from the laws of grammar. I have tried to create paragraphs here with little success , see I was educated prior to the electronic revolution. And I have little to no interest in retraining.



Now broadcasting leagues wide radio TV both north and south of the border results in about 1 billion per year in revenue to this sport that reports it is a 4.5 billion per year league.




Now I know where your coming from the players in the CBA were given 50% share. Ant way you look at it 50% of a billion is a large chunk . When broadcasting is 1/4 of your revenue.



How is the 50% looked at by the players association? 50%gross or net? Since there is up to 5% escrow it’s net. The loss of any revenue stream will result in a drop in $$$$ available for cap purposes or and 50% payout. At some point accounting does come into play.


My point is the league is not as financially stable as many promote it to be. I have given resources where the PL statements or gone over. What I find on the boards here are a majority that fail to understand the significance of poor habits with money.

From the owners are swimming in money and can lose millions per year , they can not put themselves in that position what if it were there money. Outlandish money theory’s from people making blue collar money imagining what to spend on player x or y and why they are deserving. There is little that is rational. Just people behind a telephone or PC. Pontificating on a situation they have never been in. Pretending to be able to manage millions of dollars when they in real world live paycheck to paycheck paying thousands of dollars in interest each year and unable to afford one life emergency.



Here’s the bottom line. There is going to be a drop in revenue as a result of Bally and others overpaying for rights. The industry is in flux as cable and satellite die and streaming try’s to figure out the costing of there programming. The idea that the teams will be better off owning there own rights sounds good in theory but they will have two choices then. Sell the rights again or self produce there content and both are risky in the current environment.

How this will turn out is still unclear. At this point the losses look to be up to 10 mil per team . Future is so uncertain the talk is flat cap for a while. Done define a while as two or three more years some say five to ten. The leagues Poor growth over the last 20 years 1.14 percent per year average has not kept up with inflation but player salaries sure have.

There is a price point where people will stop buying. In my area 6 weeks ago eggs hit $7.39 a dozen. Sales fell at that price point actually about stopped. Yesterday the price of a dozen eggs was $5.29. Now some will say good people showed protest and stopped paying that high rate. Or could it just be that at $7.39 they did not fit in the budget anymore?


That’s where the league is. It will rest but there will be carnage left behind.

Or could it be eggs were $7.39 a dozen due to the avian flu outbreak.
Supply and demand.

Please read my previous post.

 

[Byrddog]

Your Math is off

1312 games a year.
(32 teams x 82) / 2 = 1312

To get to 38 million that is about 29,000 fans a game. Sorry you had to type so much.

Should check first. Yesterday you thought expansion fee money counted as HRR.

I took the numbers from nhl . Con on attendance so if there wrong that’s them. As far as the franchise money that statment was due to what Bill Daily said when asked about the profitability of the teams and cap implications as Seattle paid there pentnance to join the league. Daily indicated the Seattle money would soften the losses and stabilize the cap from having to be lowered that year.


As I understand the league gets a cut of that fee the teams then divide that equally among themselves.

The amount provided to each team to me seemed insignificant to do what Daily had claimed it would do. There are many things that I find odd when it comes to the league and how they spend and report profit.

Or could it be eggs were $7.39 a dozen due to the avian flu outbreak.
Supply and demand.

Please read my previous post.

It does not matter the causation. It points out that any product , service or object has value . And it has a point where people will not purchase.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I took the numbers from nhl . Con on attendance so if there wrong that’s them. As far as the franchise money that statment was due to what Bill Daily said when asked about the profitability of the teams and cap implications as Seattle paid there pentnance to join the league. Daily indicated the Seattle money would soften the losses and stabilize the cap from having to be lowered that year.


As I understand the league gets a cut of that fee the teams then divide that equally among themselves.

The amount provided to each team to me seemed insignificant to do what Daily had claimed it would do. There are many things that I find odd when it comes to the league and how they spend and report profit.


It does not matter the causation. It points out that any product , service or object has value . And it has a point where people will not purchase.

I said your 38 million is wrong, not 20.5 million, I didn’t check that.
NHL would never say 38 million, as it’s literally impossible.

Provide a link to Daly saying , the cap would go up because of expansion fees paid.
He would never of said that because that’s impossible.

Would teams be more profitable for 1 year because of expansion fees, yes because they got free money,
None of that counts in the cap calculation.

The free money from Seattle came at a good time during the pandemic with little attendance.

Check out the MOU I provided you.

 

[rsteen]

The leagues Poor growth over the last 20 years 1.14 percent per year average has not kept up with inflation but player salaries sure have.

This can't be the case. For the last 18 years players' salaries have been directly tied to hockey related revenue. They also went from a 57% cut to a 50% cut ten years ago.
How do you think salaries are rising at or above inflation but revenues are not? Are the owners overreporting HRR so they can give the players more out of their own pockets? The same owners that have locked out the league for a total of two seasons in order to get cost control in the first place?

 

[Golden_Jet]

This can't be the case. For the last 18 years players' salaries have been directly tied to hockey related revenue. They also went from a 57% cut to a 50% cut ten years ago.
How do you think salaries are rising at or above inflation but revenues are not? Are the owners overreporting HRR so they can give the players more out of their own pockets? The same owners that have locked out the league for a total of two seasons in order to get cost control in the first place?

Yep, Also salary cap implemented 05/06 at 39 million
22/23 it’s 82.5 million.