Post-Game Talk: Cole's Plus/MINUS: Pens need a 40 goal lead to close it out! (Pens/Bs)

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

On the plus side we surely can't play much worse so maybe if we do still make the playoffs we will have already gotten our worst hockey of the year out of the way.

Maybe. Like I said... I think the core is just fine. I know Letang is having a rough go at the start of the year but I have confidence he can bounce back. Crosby and Malkin look generally strong for where they are in their career. Mostly like the majority of us figured. Malkin maybe even looks a bit better than expected despite looking like he had major brainfog like 50% of this past game.

But man... I really still hate some of the support pieces on this team. I hate how the top six is set up. And I hate the utter lack of any identity in the bottom six. So even beyond my gripes about the coach there are issues.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

People who are mad at Sid are going to be very sad to see what the team becomes without Sidney Crosby playing 20 minutes a night.

 

[Trade]

I hope Sully sports a fedora during the Winter Classic.

Go full Bylsma

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Have you all considered that maybe Rackell didn’t laugh loud enough at one of the coaching staff’s jokes once?

I have a theory about Rakell's ice time and it's the same theory about why Malkin gets the shit end of sticks and why Riikola and Kapanen get a shorter leash than NCAA graduates. I'll let you guess the rest.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I have a theory about Rakell's ice time and it's the same theory about why Malkin gets the shit end of sticks and why Riikola and Kapanen get a shorter leash than NCAA graduates. I'll let you guess the rest.

People will scoff at you but this is a league-wide thing and has been for some time IMO.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

People will scoff at you but this is a league-wide thing and has been for some time IMO.

Add Jan Rutta to the list as well.

 

[HandshakeLine]

People who are mad at Sid are going to be very sad to see what the team becomes without Sidney Crosby playing 20 minutes a night.

Losing by 2 a night instead of 1?

 

[BobCole]

People will scoff at you but this is a league-wide thing and has been for some time IMO.

I'm out of the loop. What is it?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

People who are mad at Sid are going to be very sad to see what the team becomes without Sidney Crosby playing 20 minutes a night.

As long as Sully's got Jeff Carter available to play 20+ minutes per night in all situations, I don't think we'll miss a beat.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'm out of the loop. What is it?

It's an old boys club run by dinosaurs.

95% (more?) of which are from North America.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Is there anyone really who wants to see Sid go? I mean, beyond the usual suspects. I thought most people just wanted him to get less minutes because he's been kinda garbo lately.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think the "woe is Geno" stuff is overblown. He's the 2C, he gets the 2nd line wingers.

But the constant switching back to Jake-Sid-Rust is aggravating as shit. Not because it leaves Geno with "scraps", but because Jake-Sid-Rakell is great and Geno-Rust is a great combo.

 

[BobCole]

It's an old boys club run by dinosaurs.

95% (more?) of which are from North America.

Not sure if I buy this. Can think of many Euro-born players that were given prominent roles in the Sullivan era.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Not sure if I buy this. Can think of many Euro-born players that were given prominent roles in the Sullivan era.

I don't think it's an overriding factor. But I don't think these biases ever completely went away, either. And this is a pretty old school regressive league.

 

[BobCole]

I don't think it's an overriding factor. But I don't think these biases ever completely went away, either. And this is a pretty old school regressive league.

Definitely agree with the bolded. But I think it's a bit of a reach to attribute Sullivan's TOI decisions to this. Just my $0.02.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think the "woe is Geno" stuff is overblown. He's the 2C, he gets the 2nd line wingers.

But the constant switching back to Jake-Sid-Rust is aggravating as shit. Not because it leaves Geno with "scraps", but because Jake-Sid-Rakell is great and Geno-Rust is a great combo.

I mean this is fine and all so long as we toss the idea of equity and duos out the window and stop pretending it's a thing. Just say "we're trying to load up our top line and whatever is left will have to make do regardless of fit and ability." This "what Sid and Malkin need" stuff is kind of insulting. So Malkin needs Jason Zucker? lol OK.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Definitely agree with the bolded. But I think it's a bit of a reach to attribute Sullivan's TOI decisions to this. Just my $0.02.

So what on earth do we attribute playing Rutta and Rackell 12 minutes a night to? Honest question here.

It's just such a bizarre thing that it could easily be for different reasons, but Sullivan being Sullivan, he's not going to address it.

This "what Sid and Malkin need" stuff is kind of insulting. So Malkin needs Jason Zucker? lol OK.

I'm pretty sure the reply in question had no mention of Geno, if I'm thinking of the same one.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Is there anyone really who wants to see Sid go? I mean, beyond the usual suspects. I thought most people just wanted him to get less minutes because he's been kinda garbo lately.

I definitely want to see either Sid or Geno on the shelf for 8-10 games, as the team typically rights themselves in the RS when it happens.

My pick is that either Poehling or DOC takes a star turn as this year's Erod (but less handsome)

 

[BobCole]

So what on earth do we attribute playing Rutta and Rackell 12 minutes a night to? Honest question here.

It's just such a bizarre thing that it could easily be for different reasons, but Sullivan being Sullivan, he's not going to address it.

I don't have an answer. I just haven't seen enough of a pattern from Sullivan to draw the conclusion that it's a Euro thing.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I don't have an answer. I just haven't seen enough of a pattern from Sullivan to draw the conclusion that it's a Euro thing.

I mean, there's other weirdness too. Riikola was an unspectacular #6 but was fine who was benched in order to play Jack Johnson. Zohorna got 8 games and was a net positive in every one while Lafferty was a liability on the ice until he got traded. So on and so forth.

There could certainly be alternate explanations here, but when it keeps happening to other players over and over, it does raise some questions. And Occam's Razor being a thing and all, it seems less likely that it's always Euro players who can't grasp Sullivan's system and more something else.

It's just so weird. And it's not to say that Sully doesn't play favorites with other players, he absolutely does, it's just that for whatever reasons, a large chunk of our European players here get the brunt of it.

 

[Gurglesons]

So what on earth do we attribute playing Rutta and Rackell 12 minutes a night to? Honest question here.

It's just such a bizarre thing that it could easily be for different reasons, but Sullivan being Sullivan, he's not going to address it.


I'm pretty sure the reply in question had no mention of Geno, if I'm thinking of the same one.

Rakell is averaging 18:23 and Rutta is averaging 16:23 for clarification.

I mean, there's other weirdness too. Riikola was an unspectacular #6 but was fine who was benched in order to play Jack Johnson. Zohorna got 8 games and was a net positive in every one while Lafferty was a liability on the ice until he got traded. So on and so forth.

There could certainly be alternate explanations here, but when it keeps happening to other players over and over, it does raise some questions. And Occam's Razor being a thing and all, it seems less likely that it's always Euro players who can't grasp Sullivan's system and more something else.

It's just so weird. And it's not to say that Sully doesn't play favorites with other players, he absolutely does, it's just that for whatever reasons, a large chunk of our European players here get the brunt of it.

The reality is it is just GCR. He does this to everyone that isn’t GCR and Dumo-Letang.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Rakell is averaging 18:23 and Rutta is averaging 16:23 for clarification.

Yeah, fair point. I was being hyperbolic there and mostly just referring to the last two games.

The simplest answer is that Sully doesn't trust how certain players play the game, which I guess is fair. It's just puzzling because he has seemingly much more faith in players that are objectively worse for whatever reason. I just frankly don't get it and probably never will.

 

[ChaosAgent]

The reality is it is just GCR. He does this to everyone that isn’t GCR and Dumo-Letang.

This is right. GCR are his guys - Crosby is Crosby and GR were his 2 star pupils at WBS who turned out great at the next level (Sheary being the third, to some extent).

Then Sully traditionally falls in love with a checking line. BART. Or he thinks Heinen-Carter-Kapanen is gonna be some ace checking line.

The rest of his ice time upfront is moreso fill in the blank type stuff. Geno gets his shifts and then it's the rest.

On the back end, Letang is Letang and Dumo is his guy.
Though I could see Petts (a Euro) having his playing time ramp up FWIW.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I mean this is fine and all so long as we toss the idea of equity and duos out the window and stop pretending it's a thing. Just say "we're trying to load up our top line and whatever is left will have to make do regardless of fit and ability." This "what Sid and Malkin need" stuff is kind of insulting. So Malkin needs Jason Zucker? lol OK.

The media soundbites are all bullshit, for sure. But Zucker-Rust is a fine winger combo for a 2nd line. /shrug

The issue isn't that Zucker is on Geno's line. It's that he's hurt forever, and instead of keeping the other wing occupied by Rust--who has worked perfectly fine with Geno--the coach just grabs his Jake-Sid-Rust teddybear at the drop of a hat even when it makes no sense.

Jake-Sid-Rakell
Zucker/Heinen-Geno-Rust

That's as good as it's gonna get with what this team's got. Just leave it and don't torpedo things, Sully.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Fell asleep during the 2nd intermission. Apparently didnt miss anything good.