Post-Game Talk: Cole's Plus/Minus: Geno owns Carolina

[ColePens]

Gotta give a plus to Sully, right? A couple games ago, people were calling him Dan Bylsma (cough KIRK cough cough). And sure we still have the right wing issue that clefty and many others discussed, but so far he's gotten away from the following: He was playing Kuhn over Fehr, played Guentzel over both Fehr/Kuhn, didn't stick with Olesky, moved Kunitz to L4, trusted Murray after a 7 goal game that he looked miserable in, etc. DB ****ing arrogantly made tehse terrible decisions for years and years. Luckily Sully is learning from his mistakes quickly and adjusting them.

So plus to Sully, IMO. Still got work to do and still plenty of time left to judge him, but for right now he deserves a plus.

 

[Pancakes]

Gotta give a plus to Sully, right? A couple games ago, people were calling him Dan Bylsma (cough KIRK cough cough). And sure we still have the right wing issue that clefty and many others discussed, but so far he's gotten away from the following: He was playing Kuhn over Fehr, played Guentzel over both Fehr/Kuhn, didn't stick with Olesky, moved Kunitz to L4, trusted Murray after a 7 goal game that he looked miserable in, etc. DB ****ing arrogantly made tehse terrible decisions for years and years. Luckily Sully is learning from his mistakes quickly and adjusting them.

So plus to Sully, IMO. Still got work to do and still plenty of time left to judge him, but for right now he deserves a plus.

He couldn't be more different from Disco. Even with his worst line decisions he still manages to do better than Dan would. Dan would never ever have turned Sheary and Rust into the players they are.

If we still had Dan he'd probably have Eric Fehr on Sid's wing or something.

 

[Tender Rip]

It was a great Pens-performance after Murray bailed us out in the opening 5-10 minutes where the Canes were ALL over us. In that period, and honestly quite a few time after, I really missed Staalsy... who is just a terror possession wise down low. Then I remembered his salary and production and enjoyed the increasingly entertaining show.

The Malkin line owned. The fourth line played great. The third line did better than it has in most games this season and even had spurts of "Genuine HBK". First line.... was OK.

PP was good when Malkin controlled it. Can't quite forgive Sid for stealing Murray's SO with certainly the laziest play of any Pens player so far this year. Suppose with the score being 6-0 you gotta let it go, bbut man was that ever egregious!

Good performance from the D all round. Gaunce played within himself and while I put little stock in his two points these past games, I really liked his D... and the quick shots generating rebounds at least says that he knows how he should try to be productive also.

NB: Loving the Pretzel. Players of the game however are Geno and Murray.

 

[ColePens]

No reason to think Bonino lost a step in the last 7 months. This is what he looked like last year at this time. And the year before. And the year before. And while I agree that Kessel was the key to that line working, Bonino was playing light years better than he is right now. And its not the only time he's stepped it up in the playoffs. Bones absolutely has another gear or three. He may not get to that level this year, but the ability is there.

Bonino had 16 total points last year before putting up that 5 point game that started it all. The date of that 5 point game was 3/26/16. If anything, Bonino is better than he was last year at this point. He currently has 19 points and I know points don't count for everything, but he's ahead of his pace prior to blowing up.

As of 1/20/16, Bonino had 10 points. And went out with a hand injury. So he really didn't pick it up until he came back from his hand injury and a full month later (around end of March 2016).

So we have to hope he does what he normally does and finds himself when it matters most. Personally, I have to be the slight bit cautiously optimistic because he's disappeared like this pretty much every single year and shows he can play when it matters the most. But why does he disappear for so damn long?

I looked at his 2013-14 season where he tore it up with the Ducks. In March he had 8 points, 6 goals. In 13 playoff games with the Ducks, he had 8 points. That's pretty ****ing good. That's all 5 on 5 work averaging around 15 minutes a night.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Bonino does have a history of turning it up later in the season and in the playoffs, but that's all that is: history. There's no guarantee he'll do it in any given season. Bonino is a really bad player for a majority of the season, and if he regresses from what he has done in the past in the playoffs, there's no reason to keep him around. I don't like relying on playoff warriors because they are useless if they either slip up in the playoffs or are hurt in the playoffs. Having someone like Bonino only for the regular season is pretty worthless because he's a bad regular season player.

 

[MrBurghundy]

Bonino had 16 total points last year before putting up that 5 point game that started it all. The date of that 5 point game was 3/26/16. If anything, Bonino is better than he was last year at this point. He currently has 19 points and I know points don't count for everything, but he's ahead of his pace prior to blowing up.

As of 1/20/16, Bonino had 10 points. And went out with a hand injury. So he really didn't pick it up until he came back from his hand injury and a full month later (around end of March 2016).

So we have to hope he does what he normally does and finds himself when it matters most. Personally, I have to be the slight bit cautiously optimistic because he's disappeared like this pretty much every single year and shows he can play when it matters the most. But why does he disappear for so damn long?

I looked at his 2013-14 season where he tore it up with the Ducks. In March he had 8 points, 6 goals. In 13 playoff games with the Ducks, he had 8 points. That's pretty ****ing good. That's all 5 on 5 work averaging around 15 minutes a night.

I don't know how many times I have to say it, but every single one of the players on that HBK line has a style of game that thrives on everything playoff hockey brings. Namely a higher level of intensity, more focus, and an awareness that you have to give every ounce of energy you have. Those things are just hard to replicate during a long regular season. I saw some good signs tonight though after Sully spoke with that line individually.

 

[MrBurghundy]

Bonino does have a history of turning it up later in the season and in the playoffs, but that's all that is: history. There's no guarantee he'll do it in any given season. Bonino is a really bad player for a majority of the season, and if he regresses from what he has done in the past in the playoffs, there's no reason to keep him around. I don't like relying on playoff warriors because they are useless if they either slip up in the playoffs or are hurt in the playoffs. Having someone like Bonino only for the regular season is pretty worthless because he's a bad regular season player.

I will agree with this though, we can't just assume it will magically happen again. He does need to start giving a **** in the regular season on more than just the occasional happenstance.

 

[ColePens]

"Really bad player" wouldn't define Bones, IMO. I understand he has been frustrating this year, but really bad is not something i'd define him as. I think he's better than the likes of Spaling, Fehr, Sutter, Sill, Goc, of course Adams, and other bottom 6 centers we've had. If you are going to try and go out to get a rental L3 Center at the deadline because you don't like Bones, you are basically giving up assets for a guy who is identical to Nick Bonino. It serves no purpose.

You keep rolling with Bones and like we have mentioned before - you keep Fehr as L4 center and give Cully the 3rd line if all else fails. That's solid depth with a guy in Sundqvist right behind just in case.

If I'm JR, the only position we need to figure out is a 7th dman in case we lose a defender in the playoffs. In a situation where we lose Daley in the ECF, we can't roll with a guy like Ruh or Gaunce. It's not a preferable situation. A legit #7 would be perfect. And if the right trade comes along - upgrade the team but it has to be the right move at this point. Something like moving MAF out and using that cap space to fix Sid's RW, even though I feel it could be fixed with a simple line change.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Teams may be becoming wary of trading 'broken' defensive players to JR for peanuts given recent success with those players.

The Pens have a good record in rehabilitating them.

 

[ColePens]

I don't know how many times I have to say it, but every single one of the players on that HBK line has a style of game that thrives on everything playoff hockey brings. Namely a higher level of intensity, more focus, and an awareness that you have to give every ounce of energy you have. Those things are just hard to replicate during a long regular season. I saw some good signs tonight though after Sully spoke with that line individually.

Last year it was frustrating at times watching Kessel avoid physicality at alllllll cost during the regular season, but man a fresh Kessel in the postseason was worth every lazy curl/forecheck/etc. And that's why i'm fine w/ HBK not working right now because Kessel can do whatever the **** he wants. I trust the guy when it matters.

The only thing I'm really worried about is Bonino's skating. He's really lagging behind the play. I just don't remember seeing that so badly last year.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I actually think Spaling is a pretty fair comparison for how Bonino looks in the regular season most of the time. Me saying he's a very bad player is over the line, but I do think he's an incredibly vanilla 3rd liner with severe consistency issues in the regular season. He's your standard 3C, he's not bad enough where you'd need an improvement at 3rd line center but he's not good enough where you'd say no to an improvement at 3rd line center if it was available.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

+Malkin
+Murray
+Sheary
+Most of the team, pretty much

-Sullivan. Stop putting Rust with Crosby.
-Pens score 7, Malkin gets 2, Crosby 1. Oilers score 2, McDavid gets 1. He's winning the scoring title this year.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

+Malkin
+Murray
+Sheary
+Most of the team, pretty much

-Sullivan. Stop putting Rust with Crosby.
-Pens score 7, Malkin gets 2, Crosby 1. Oilers score 2, McDavid gets 1. He's winning the scoring title this year.

Seems like every time the Pens score more than 6 goals , Crosby only gets 1 point. Pretty sure its happened every time besides the other night when he got 4.

Still say Mcdavid won't win the ART tho. It will be Malkin if Rust stays on Crosby's line. If not, it will be Crosby.

 

[trader997]

Rust brings ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to Sid's line. Sid may be the best player in the game but he can't transform a 3rd line winger into a Kessel. I can't believe Kessel was never tried with Sid under Sullivan.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Seems like every time the Pens score more than 6 goals , Crosby only gets 1 point. Pretty sure its happened every time besides the other night when he got 4.

Still say Mcdavid won't win the ART tho. It will be Malkin if Rust stays on Crosby's line. If not, it will be Crosby.

Seems to happen to both Sid and Geno for some reason. Even tonight, when Geno was dominant, he only got 2 points on 7 goals. McDavid has a so-so night and somehow ends up with 3 points on 4 goals (the other night versus Florida, I didn't think he was all that special). If Edmonton somehow scored 7 goals, McDavid would probably walk away with 5 or 6 points.

I was hoping the Washington game was a sign of things to come for Sid and Geno, where they'd start racking up points when the Pens score a lot. Since then the Pens have scored 11 goals in 2 games, with Malkin getting 3 points and Sid 1.

It's just odd.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

On the flip side, it's awesome seeing a guy like Sheary continue to produce. I thought he'd end up with 15 goals or so over a full season. I never dreamed he'd have 15 goals at just over the halfway point.

And Matt Murray with two straight strong games. Hopefully he's found his form now.

 

[ColePens]

Rust brings ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to Sid's line. Sid may be the best player in the game but he can't transform a 3rd line winger into a Kessel. I can't believe Kessel was never tried with Sid under Sullivan.

It's definitely a puzzling situation. Rust literally looks amazing and a key player in any other line. With Sid, he just doesn't fit at all. You have an easy solution and that' sjust moving Rust to any other line but Sids, yet we just keep seeing game after game of the same thing.

Definitely puzzling stuff. The eye test shows it and I read that advanced stats show that it isn't working either.

 

[ColePens]

And Matt Murray with two straight strong games. Hopefully he's found his form now.

Schedule lightens up a little here. 4 games left in January. Sunday, Tuesday 1/24, Thursday 1/26, Tuesday 1/31.

Do you just keep riding him? There is significant rest in between each of those.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Schedule lightens up a little here. 4 games left in January. Sunday, Tuesday 1/24, Thursday 1/26, Tuesday 1/31.

Do you just keep riding him? There is significant rest in between each of those.

Who do the Pens play, and is it at home or the road?

It might be smart to at least give Fleury one of those games so he doesn't get too rusty sitting on the bench for what will end up being around two weeks.

Maybe go with Murray Sunday, Fleury Tuesday, then Murray Thursday and Tuesday.

On the flip side, if they go with Murray all four games, maybe that will finally push Fleury to demand a trade.

 

[CertifiedLurker]

Last year it was frustrating at times watching Kessel avoid physicality at alllllll cost during the regular season, but man a fresh Kessel in the postseason was worth every lazy curl/forecheck/etc. And that's why i'm fine w/ HBK not working right now because Kessel can do whatever the **** he wants. I trust the guy when it matters.

The only thing I'm really worried about is Bonino's skating. He's really lagging behind the play. I just don't remember seeing that so badly last year.

Okay here's the thing though, if HBK is purely a post-season thing, then let Bonino float around in the regular season doing jack. Don't drag Kessel down there as well for the entire season. Maybe Kessel is a bit floaty physically during the regular season but his production if he played anywhere in the top 6 during the regular season would pretty much be amazing even if the plan is to physically coast until the post-season. His coasting wouldn't preclude him producing and making a line in the top 6 better. Just put HBK together in like march or something so they can roll into the post-season.

 

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

Who do the Pens play, and is it at home or the road?

It might be smart to at least give Fleury one of those games so he doesn't get too rusty sitting on the bench for what will end up being around two weeks.

Maybe go with Murray Sunday, Fleury Tuesday, then Murray Thursday and Tuesday.

On the flip side, if they go with Murray all four games, maybe that will finally push Fleury to demand a trade.

Ordinarily, I'd say that you give the backup a game just so that the starter doesn't pile up too many minutes during the regular season. Make sure he has something left for a long playoff run.

However, if Fleury starts one game in every back-to-back (and no others) Murray only ends up with about fifty starts. I think he'll be fresh enough. So, I say screw it. Shove Fleury so far off to the side that he'll never even want to visit Pittsburgh again, let alone play his home games there next year.

 

[hooverdam]

Bonino had 16 total points last year before putting up that 5 point game that started it all. The date of that 5 point game was 3/26/16. If anything, Bonino is better than he was last year at this point. He currently has 19 points and I know points don't count for everything, but he's ahead of his pace prior to blowing up.

As of 1/20/16, Bonino had 10 points. And went out with a hand injury. So he really didn't pick it up until he came back from his hand injury and a full month later (around end of March 2016).

So we have to hope he does what he normally does and finds himself when it matters most. Personally, I have to be the slight bit cautiously optimistic because he's disappeared like this pretty much every single year and shows he can play when it matters the most. But why does he disappear for so damn long?

I looked at his 2013-14 season where he tore it up with the Ducks. In March he had 8 points, 6 goals. In 13 playoff games with the Ducks, he had 8 points. That's pretty ****ing good. That's all 5 on 5 work averaging around 15 minutes a night.

I just don't think Bonino looked this bad last season. Even when he wasn't putting up points, you could tell there was something there, some creativity in his plays, some chemistry with linemates, a lot of the little things Sutter never brought. His underlying numbers were better than Sutter last year, too, but this year everything's taken a real dive.

That stuff just seems gone from his game. Most nights look like a real struggle for him, the way Sid struggled at the beginning of last year. Taking points completely out of the equation, how many games can you point to this season where Bonino seemed to play really well? I can't think of many, and that's more troubling to me than production, especially if he's going to continue to monopolize Kessel and drag down his production, too.

Maybe it all comes together in time for the playoffs, but if there's any way to solidify that 3C spot, I'd rather do that than gamble on Bonino.

 

[Fordy]

i seriously can't believe that conor sheary has become crosby's best winger ever

 

[Koempel]

Seems to happen to both Sid and Geno for some reason. Even tonight, when Geno was dominant, he only got 2 points on 7 goals. McDavid has a so-so night and somehow ends up with 3 points on 4 goals (the other night versus Florida, I didn't think he was all that special). If Edmonton somehow scored 7 goals, McDavid would probably walk away with 5 or 6 points.

I was hoping the Washington game was a sign of things to come for Sid and Geno, where they'd start racking up points when the Pens score a lot. Since then the Pens have scored 11 goals in 2 games, with Malkin getting 3 points and Sid 1.

It's just odd.

I actually find McDavid seems to have the same 'bad' luck like Geno/Crosby had in the past, i.e. that their linemates **** up the glorious opportunities they deliver them on a silver platter. Definitely saw a lot of games where McDavid could have had 4 points and got none. In that way he is very similar to Crosby. Where he is notably worse is his goal scoring ability. Despite his ridiculous speed/explosiveness, which gets him in prime scoring positions often, his shot is absolutely weak for a player of his stature and he hasn't nailed down a very effective finishing move despite his insane hands. When he manages to fix those issues, I don't think anybody will keep up with him. Hard to say if he has Crosby's knack for improving skills though.

i seriously can't believe that conor sheary has become crosby's best winger ever

It is beautiful to watch one of Sid's linemates actually expect his crazy passes. That one would have hit Dupuis in his skates most likely.

 

[Tender Rip]

Rust brings ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to Sid's line. Sid may be the best player in the game but he can't transform a 3rd line winger into a Kessel. I can't believe Kessel was never tried with Sid under Sullivan.

Pretty fundamental on two goals tonight though, right?.... and the most defensively committed player on that line pretty much every game.

I agree that he should not play there, I've argued his switch with Horny since... before the season... but to say he brings nothing to the line after this game is just daft.