Maybe, maybe not - I think a lot of the teams involved in the Coleman sweepstakes are the kind of teams that aren't going to do much of anything. I could see Boston doing nothing if they don't get Palmieri, likewise with Edmonton. But yeah, that's why the Lightning jumped - there's one player like Coleman potentially available.
Confirmed with Link: Coleman to Tampa Bay for 1st and Nolan Foote
- Thread starter britdevil
- Start date
Maybe, maybe not - I think a lot of the teams involved in the Coleman sweepstakes are the kind of teams that aren't going to do much of anything. I could see Boston doing nothing if they don't get Palmieri, likewise with Edmonton. But yeah, that's why the Lightning jumped - there's one player like Coleman potentially available.
Lou is God
Registered User
And it's a good thing the Lightning gave the green light on the trade, if they at the last second decided to wait and see what's else out there, they might have found someone while a lesser player than Coleman, did the things he did at a cheaper cost than giving up VAN's #1 and a top prospect. And essentially my point about striking it hot early, and this is not the case for every year, but I think a good GM can ascertain how it will play out and when to strike.
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glenwo2
JESPER BRATWURST
Making assumptions at this point on a player's development is foolish, imo.
Plus, Nolan is doing alright for himself in the WHL.
Some people need to learn the definition of the word unlikely and the definition of the word impossible and how these things are massively different.
glenwo2
JESPER BRATWURST
Definition is different.
Intent is the same.
You don't believe Foote will end up as "talented" as Coleman which is a massive LEAP (and Hot Take) of predicting his future as a Hockey Player, considering that he's only 19.
And would you please not do the whole "Respond to someone without quoting him" thing? I'm right here.
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No, I never said that Foote won't end up as 'talented' as Coleman. You need to look up the definition of the word unlikely and the word impossible. Not only is it possible that Foote ends up as 'talented' as Coleman, it's possible that he ends up being better than Coleman. It's just not likely that that happens.
Just an excuse to post a draft day photo of Blake who decided that he didn't need to wear a tie.
glenwo2
JESPER BRATWURST
My head hurts trying to understand what you're saying.
I never make predictions on what a player will be in the future 'cause you just don't know.
Saying that a player is unlikely to be or do anything, is basically putting the cart before the horse here.
I don't feel like arguing semantics with you any further.
The only thing I will say is that Nolan Foote's chances of being "as talented" as Coleman are pretty damn good at this point (and he's only 19). But that's my own dumb opinion so whatever...
Darkauron
Registered User
Unlikely that a kid that is still a teen, has monster skills, and hasn't played a pro game... Is somehow unlikely to be as good as Coleman........
Wat.
Wat.
We have given this horse a decent funeral I am sure.
My reactions to this are driven by not wanting to suck next year; not to have another season of bottoming out.
I am not needing us to be a cup contender. But to be in the playoffs race, well, yes, that would be nice to watch. To be playing good competitive hockey; to be beating the Rangers as much or more than they beat us.
I did not regard those things as out of reach and I am hoping that the team continues to aim at them. But trading your best players for futures does not seem to be going in that direction. So I hope we acquire some players in the off season who fill the immediate hole created by moving Coleman. And fill a couple of other needs in the roster.
Because I am hooked on this team, and am going to keep watching it no matter, is precisely why I’d rather it’s a fun and more of a winning experience. Definitely don’t like the line of argument that seems to push having a winning club like 2 or 3 years down the line.
My reactions to this are driven by not wanting to suck next year; not to have another season of bottoming out.
I am not needing us to be a cup contender. But to be in the playoffs race, well, yes, that would be nice to watch. To be playing good competitive hockey; to be beating the Rangers as much or more than they beat us.
I did not regard those things as out of reach and I am hoping that the team continues to aim at them. But trading your best players for futures does not seem to be going in that direction. So I hope we acquire some players in the off season who fill the immediate hole created by moving Coleman. And fill a couple of other needs in the roster.
Because I am hooked on this team, and am going to keep watching it no matter, is precisely why I’d rather it’s a fun and more of a winning experience. Definitely don’t like the line of argument that seems to push having a winning club like 2 or 3 years down the line.
Blake Coleman is a really good player and most NHL players do not get to be as good as him. I suggest, if you're more inclined, to take a look at the last 6 picks of the drafts between 2009 and 2013:
2009: Caron, Palmieri, Paradis, Olsen, Ashton, Despres. Palmieri is the only one still in the NHL. Despres had concussion problems but was a 4/5th defenseman
2010: Howden, Kuznetsov, Coyle, Visentin, Etem, Nelson. Nelson, Kuznetsov, and Coyle are excelling, the other 3 are not in the NHL.
2011: Percy, Namestnikov, Danault, Phillips, Jensen, Rakell - Namestnikov is a fine top 9 player, Danault's good, Rakell's good, the other 3 aren't in the NHL
2012: Schmaltz, Gaunce, Samuelsson, Skjei, Matteau, Pearson - Skjei and Pearson are NHLers, the other 4 are not.
2013: McCarron, Dano, Theodore, Klimchuk, Dickinson, Hartman - Theodore is a very solid D man, Dickinson and Hartman are NHLers but with limited impact.
Most of these guys were really good in junior (or college, or wherever). Many of these guys were really good in the AHL, too. The majority of them do not play in the NHL now. I like Nolan Foote, I'm glad the Devils have him and I'm glad they made the trade. But the odds are still against him becoming a full-time NHLer.
I think the likely-unlikely thing is hard to distinguish. I'm also not sure if "monster skills" is an appropriate description for Foote.
But we do know Coleman is right now a good NHL player.
We also know many late first round picks never pan out. We've seen plenty of those first hand.
So that's where the unlikely thing is coming from.
Edit:It looks like Triumph beat me to the response complete with examples.
They tried to build an interim decent team and with one exceptional year it was just a flop. Maybe it was as simple as injuries and goalies stunk but it just didn’t work. Maybe a good coach with a full offseason might have made a difference but who knows. Hall Palms MarJo Boyle Zajac Lovejoy Moore Greene and Cory just weren’t good enough for whatever reasons.
Maybe they can rebuild an interim team but on some level it’s understandable why they ripped the bandaid off and I can argue the cold blooded but correct thing to do would have been to trade Hall before his MVP year and trade Cory then as well. Starting the ground up rebuild maybe should have begun in 2016 but it seems to be beginning now.
Only it’s maybe not clear we are taking the ground up route. Whether we choose to move Palms will be the tell tale, I think. If we keep him the club keeps its identity in a way it won’t if he’s gone.
Nico, Jack, Palms, the two Jespers, Zacha, Zajac, Goose, gives you a pretty nice core group up front. To which you add a piece or two, maybe even one or two of Maltsev, Anderson, Bastian who knows.
The back line is a bigger issue but you figure on Sevs, Mueller, Butcher and Vats if you resign him. Definitely need to add some decent upgrades here by development or signings or trades. The stockpiled picks may help here?
Blackwood is a solid piece but must add a good second goalie.
I can see such a team competing for a playoff spot next year if a number of things go our way, especially finding some upgrades at D.
This supposes we keep Palms. The next week should tell us which direction we are going.
If they move Palms at a premium I get it. If they keep Palms I get it. Just so long as whatever they do they are serious about the long term improvement of the team. There is more than one way to skin the cat but I don’t see any good team that doesn’t have at least some highly drafted players leading the way.
Emperoreddy
Show Me What You Got!
The goal has to be to win a cup winner. That is priority one, and you sacrifice a few points next season if you believe you will be better off long term.
Not doing what’s best for that goal just to try and get WC 2 is not the way
I’m not an argue person, but for me the “cup winner” is too distant and ideal a goal for the start. I would settle for just being playoff spot competitive but with enough really talented youth (and we have it, or a good start, in Nico and Jack) that I can imagine it being a foundation for something more.
I suspect we are saying the same thing.
We do have some highly drafted players in house, and we will have more after this years draft.
I feel this is akin to saying you don't have faith in Nico, Hughes and Blackwood being able to lead the way to a title.
Not to mention Smith and Bahl and Foote and down the list.
Plus the 3 first rounders we have this season.
The idea that we need to stink again next year in order to hopefully become a legit contender is not one I get behind.
MachoDiablo
Registered User
I don't think he said that: it's more that you have to consider making moves right now that will make it feel like a step backwards next year in order to move forward down the line, but that doesn't necessarily mean next year's team needs to be like Detroit this season or something.
I think the entire point of doing that is because we do have faith in the young guys we currently have, and it just makes sense to surround them with even more young, potentially impactful talent that can grow alongside them, with the guy who are already here likely being primed for leadership roles. It's saying "this is your team, now" to them, whereas going into this year it felt like the goal was to make this Taylor Hall's team going forward, if he had been willing to sign an extension.
We're a bad team this year, we've already traded Coleman and his 21 goals, trading away Palms and his 23 goals would leave Nico as our goal leader. He has 13. This is a recipe for an absolutely brutal team. And I don't think terrible teams are a good environment for young players.
glenwo2
JESPER BRATWURST
Just stop.
Until it happens that he isn't an NHL'er(which we won't know for YEARS), I'm going to take the Han Solo approach :
I mean, I look at those lists and see excellent odds that we'll get a good NHL player.
I mean, I look at those lists and see excellent odds that we'll get a good NHL player.
You do? You might be confusing some of them with players who share their last names. Of those players, Palmieri, Nelson, Kuznetsov, Danault, Rakell, and Theodore are the only players I would say are definitely above-average, with Namestnikov, Coyle, Skjei, Pearson at around average and the rest below. So that's 6 out of 30 above average, 4 out of 30 average-ish, and the rest below that. If you think those are excellent odds, I think I want to gamble with you.
It's just too early one way or the other to say that players in their rookie season or aged 18-23 are good enough to lead the team to success going forward. I think they will but we don't know yet.
