Player Discussion: Cole Perfetti 10th OA pick
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I'm ready to move on with Perfetti. I want him to succeed but he is so hot and cold, unwilling to battle, soggy skater. If we can give him to someone inna package deal, even Chibby would be an upgrade to him. He's had a long enough leash. He just hasn't performed like we had hoped
Upperdeckjet
Registered User
- Dec 14, 2011
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He is a soggy skater and he has had a long enough leash. I don't care who takes his spot next game, but I think its time for him to sit.
Bender Duster
Registered User
I don’t know…I’ve only been here half a season and I’ve seen some real doozies.
Hellebuyck is one point behind Perfetti for scoring during the month of January. Does he catch him?
voyageur
Grizzled vet
- Jul 10, 2011
- 11,244
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I'll give him 100% chance of being on the playoff roster, but a 25% chance to be in the starting roster.
The early pages of this thread are a good read, because it's been the question since day 1 about this guy.
I see the playoff forward roster as
81-55-13
62-?-27
9-17-22
36-7-15
----------
91,19, 21, 93, with an add to the depth too.
I think the ? is Granlund.
It's interesting to see where his season goes.
Falling out of the top 6 puts him in a precarious position, because I'm not sure his skating will hold up a solid defensive game. Colorado is obviously the worst kind of matchup for a guy who lacks a top gear, but fundamentally he's in no man's land right now, and the lack of PP time, which was at least giving him some confidence early in the season will make this season another tough one for the kid.
91 will just play on the 4th line if they replace him higher in the lineup. You need your 4th line to be able to chip in goals in the playoffs and he can add a dimension. Coldest take I've ever heard if Sean Reynolds saying 91 has no trade value and wouldn't be able to get us Brock Nelson because they don't play the same game. Might have to stop listening to that pod now.
I wonder if Kings and Rangers fans want to health bomb Byfield and Laf?
I wonder if Kings and Rangers fans want to health bomb Byfield and Laf?
Hank Chinaski
Registered User
This.
If I’m an opposing GM, I’m not valuing Perfetti any higher than a second round pick at this very moment. If he can build up some momentum and point production, could see him being valued as a (late) first.
Bottom line, I can’t see him as an enticing trade chip. Offensively inept, and while he’s a decent defensive player it’s not enough to offset the lack of production.
Huffer
Registered User
- Jul 16, 2010
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I like so much about his game and his skills (vision, passing, his defensive game is good), but he's past the "have to produce more" stage.
The question is, how many more points would make me feel like he is doing "OK"?
He's currently tied for 144th in scoring for forwards. If we use some lazy math and say there are 192 top 6 forwards he's still in that range, but the consistency in scoring is a concern.
Even just 5 more points takes him to tied for 99th. (You can say that for anyone though).
Personally, I think he should be sitting at at least 30 at a minimum, and to be honest, I'd like to see him between 30 and 35 (there are a ton of great players in this range currently).
Another question is, do you think he still has room to get there? Either with growth, or linemates, etc? I don't see him getting to that Ehlers / Connor tier unfortunately. I do think he can get to a solid 50 points (around) guy, which should be around 125 or so around for forwards. Solid production, but you'd like to have him flirting closer to the high 50's ideally. Even that's a little disappointing comparatively from his junior stats and what he looked like he could be, which is a consistent 60+ point guy (at least).
Personally, I'm not moving away from him (as an org) yet. (obvious caveat of a move that makes sense).
The question is, how many more points would make me feel like he is doing "OK"?
He's currently tied for 144th in scoring for forwards. If we use some lazy math and say there are 192 top 6 forwards he's still in that range, but the consistency in scoring is a concern.
Even just 5 more points takes him to tied for 99th. (You can say that for anyone though).
Personally, I think he should be sitting at at least 30 at a minimum, and to be honest, I'd like to see him between 30 and 35 (there are a ton of great players in this range currently).
Another question is, do you think he still has room to get there? Either with growth, or linemates, etc? I don't see him getting to that Ehlers / Connor tier unfortunately. I do think he can get to a solid 50 points (around) guy, which should be around 125 or so around for forwards. Solid production, but you'd like to have him flirting closer to the high 50's ideally. Even that's a little disappointing comparatively from his junior stats and what he looked like he could be, which is a consistent 60+ point guy (at least).
Personally, I'm not moving away from him (as an org) yet. (obvious caveat of a move that makes sense).
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Buffdog
Registered User
- Feb 13, 2019
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Solid post
I'm curious as to what the coaching staff is telling him in terms of how to elevate his game to increase his production. As you said, he seems to have plenty of tools to be able to put up some numbers but it's not happening, and I'll admit that I don't watch him enough when he's away from the puck to really put a finger on his issues
One thing that I'll say (and I could be wrong - maybe there's data on this) is that he doesn't seem to possess the puck much in high danger areas. When he does shoot from the slot, he's had some bad luck with posts, etc.
To rectify that, he either needs to be able to carry the puck into the slot or go there and either have someone fined him, or look for a deflection/rebound
Coles attributes have always been his ability to put up points. I think to trade him and get a 2nd rder for him and good luck that that guy is any better.
A young player who is not developing I would trade and deal with is he a 40 pt guy or 60 in the right environment who knows.
He needs to get some stability and 5 min a period won’t start a pt a game player.
Don’t really GAF what the haters say, but to blame everything on him is BS.
Trade him for a 2nd and see how that works out for you.
A young player who is not developing I would trade and deal with is he a 40 pt guy or 60 in the right environment who knows.
He needs to get some stability and 5 min a period won’t start a pt a game player.
Don’t really GAF what the haters say, but to blame everything on him is BS.
Trade him for a 2nd and see how that works out for you.
Unfortunately it's pretty common in the league for there to be guys in that 5-15th pick in the draft range that struggle to meet expectations and produce in top six roles in their early 20's.
I'm thinking of guys like Dylan Strome, Sam Reinhart. Takes some guys until their mid to late 20's to finally turn that corner as top six guys. Usually once their original team has moved on from them... it feels more and more like this is the way it is headed.
Hoping for the best but I'm worried too. He is fine as a 4th liner with his defensive impact. But we all know how coaches view 4th liners that don't PK or punish defensemen. Press box duty.
He is basically a 3rd line scoring impact, behind Appleton, while playing with Ehlers. So basically a 4th line/press box calibre offense on a true contender.
His value is probably down in that late 1st/2nd rounder range as @Hank Chinaski mentioned.
Its not Chevy's MO to sell low on his prospects when they struggle as pros. But considering our need for persistent center and D it's pretty logical for him to be included in a deal for one of those needs.
Is giving up a 1st with Perfetti too much for Cozens? Not enough? I'm not sure.
I'm thinking of guys like Dylan Strome, Sam Reinhart. Takes some guys until their mid to late 20's to finally turn that corner as top six guys. Usually once their original team has moved on from them... it feels more and more like this is the way it is headed.
Hoping for the best but I'm worried too. He is fine as a 4th liner with his defensive impact. But we all know how coaches view 4th liners that don't PK or punish defensemen. Press box duty.
He is basically a 3rd line scoring impact, behind Appleton, while playing with Ehlers. So basically a 4th line/press box calibre offense on a true contender.
His value is probably down in that late 1st/2nd rounder range as @Hank Chinaski mentioned.
Its not Chevy's MO to sell low on his prospects when they struggle as pros. But considering our need for persistent center and D it's pretty logical for him to be included in a deal for one of those needs.
Is giving up a 1st with Perfetti too much for Cozens? Not enough? I'm not sure.
What kind of value do you think he has? It can't be much. Definitely not worth his contract.
Where does he rank for forwards in his last 25 games?
As it relates to cozens
He and Perfetti's PPG for their careers are darn near identical. Cozens has displayed a higher peak season for sure though. I don't think if add a 1st to that. Perfetti does cost 2x less for one more year too.
Agree that trading him for a 2nd is ridiculous. I'd trade him (and add) for a clear tier up at Fwd.
Huffer
Registered User
- Jul 16, 2010
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I know you know the answer to that. Feels like you're trying to setup a gotcha or something?
His last 25 (or whatever someone wants to use) has been terrible production wise, which is why I added the comment about consistency in scoring being a concern. Being able to produce consistently, and not go cold for long stretches is a big concern for sure.
Cypruss
Stand up for your beliefs.
Only 23. There are still a few chapters of this book to be written before a tangible conclusion can be made.
Here is the 2020 1st round picks and their NHL points. Cole really not noticiable (good or bad) in any way on this list.
If you ask Chevy, I am sure he would say "It's a process"
Here is the 2020 1st round picks and their NHL points. Cole really not noticiable (good or bad) in any way on this list.
If you ask Chevy, I am sure he would say "It's a process"
I don’t know the answer, clearly it’s not good. But when you are making contextless post in a group of post talking about trade context might matter don’t you think?
- Nov 24, 2006
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He's definitely not a bad player but there's something missing I think. It's always been missing too.
Four elements to a good top 6 forward (IMO)
Size
Speed
Tenacity
Skill (vision, playmaking, shot)
He's got the skill, but it feels like he needs another 10% - 15% of some or all of the others to get to that level we need him to be at.
Four elements to a good top 6 forward (IMO)
Size
Speed
Tenacity
Skill (vision, playmaking, shot)
He's got the skill, but it feels like he needs another 10% - 15% of some or all of the others to get to that level we need him to be at.
Upperdeckjet
Registered User
- Dec 14, 2011
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If not soon, judgment day certainly arrives when training camp opens next year. There will be young players such as Chibrikov, Lambert and Yager competing for Cole's spot. Let the best player(s) play.
In the meantime, we have the option to enjoy that Toninato hustle! Lol
In the meantime, we have the option to enjoy that Toninato hustle! Lol
Huffer
Registered User
- Jul 16, 2010
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If there is some more context you'd like, feel free to add it to improve the discussion.
Buffdog
Registered User
- Feb 13, 2019
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These guys also had very unique and disjointed development processes due to the Covid restrictions. Cole would have had at least one and possibly two years in Juniors based on his physical size after the draft alone. He was thrust into playing vs men while still in a boy's body at 18 so his puck touches were vastly reduced. He would have had the puck on his stick almost continuously had he gone back to juniors
i don't think anyone is making or trying to make career wide conclusions. they, atleast i am, are commenting on his play and production season to-date.
not sure why every time there's some commentary on his play this year, it resorts to folks appropriating that for future years or career long projections. this is 1 season in a 10+ year career, he could turn into a 60+ pt player next year, who knows. but essentially since Dec 2023 we do know he has not been getting it done offensively.
