Confirmed with Link: [COL, CAR, CHI] Rantanen-Hall to CAR, Necas-Drury-25 2nd-26 4th to COL, Chi 25 3rd to Chi (Ret 50% on Mikko)

[Gumballhead]

The more I read about this the more I think it’s hard to blame Mikko or the Avs for anything they did or didn’t do. It’s a perfect storm scenario where a player has earned his big pay day on a team that currently has to be extremely careful about giving out big contracts. The cap will go up, but you can’t count on the amount. The Avs window is open with Mack and Makar in their primes. Mikko I don’t think was playing hardball, I think his agent misjudged some things. A time sensitive and extremely enticing trade possibility came up at a crucial time, and also during a time when the Avs are playing all over the place and struggling massively on the PP which usually features their top guys playing 2 minutes. A lot of reasons to pull the trigger on the deal and unfortunately Mikko and his agent were still negotiating. If they had really thought a trade was the end result you’d have to think they’d have tried harder to compromise with the Avs.

It’s kinda sad but super exciting if you are an Avs fan. It could turn out to be a genius move and there’s no potential albatross contract 3 years from
now.

 

[LOFIN]

Mikko I don’t think was playing hardball, I think his agent misjudged some things

From all we've read, this came as a total surprise for everyone (except the Avs management of course). One can wonder if Mikko would've lowered his ask in the end, if he had known a trade was really a possibility.

And please, don't give me the "he and his agent should've known". I mean sure, technically yes. But we saw how this played out with Landy, and how it has played out with other big name free agents who have entered their last season without a contract. It very well might've been that the Avs never even communicated to the agent or Mikko that they would consider trading him. They wanted to keep this well under the wraps, and only contacted a select few teams (according to LeBrun and Friedman). There really were only a few people who saw this possibility. Kyper, Lavoie, and I guess Friedman according to his own words but he never reported anything on it.

I choose to believe Kyper in what he has heard, because it supports my narrative in that it could've come down to a mere 250-750k of difference. If so, I'm sad. But I'm not going to condemn the Avs for it. There are sound reasons to move on from Mikko, even if he had signed for let's say 11M per. It's very true that he has grown a bit complacent in his role. I've always maintained that he absolutely can drive a line, and he has done that in the past. It has not been true for the last two seasons, and one has to wonder if this is just a combination of heavy workload, and the uncertainty of contract negotiations. Or, it wery well could be that he is past his prime. I think the Avs made that calculation. Mikko has never been a great skater, and the league is only getting faster. Mikko will never stop being effective, he's way too skilled and big for that to happen. But his effectiveness will probably take a hit as he loses a step. The Avs probably thought this could be sooner rather than later on the timeline of his new contract.

Necas is a good skater, and is cost controlled for next season. And he probably is going to make single digits even in his next contract, if the Avs act fast during the summer. That's a good thing. It allows the Avs to probably bring back Drouin, who will get a raise but maybe not that big of a contract because he's still injured half the time. And if we can actually get Landeskog and Nichuskin back more regularly, the top-6 is still very skilled and should be effective. That's a lot to hope for however. For whatever flaws we all can see in Mikko's game, he doesn't really miss games. He has had two freak injuries, but otherwise the man just stays in the lineup. That's not a small feat in this Ambulanche team.

Hopefully Mikko does well for himself and with Carolina. I guess I wouldn't mind seeing him re-sign there. I hope he can come end his career with the Avs eventually.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

I truly don't get the whole 'fiasco' with this situation especially from the media. Who offered what? Who turned down how much?

Kypreos was saying the Avs offer was disrespectful ??

What does it matter???

The Avs decided internally that the most they can afford to pay a player like Mikko was $11.75M and that was the offer. They did not want to risk getting nothing so they moved him.

Moronic outsiders who think they apparently know him better than the team that's had him for the last 10 years???

I think some people legitimately believe we should sabotage the team just to show Mikko respect via contract

 

[Bender]

I never realized that Frank was such a whiny little bitch

He's a schmuck.

"Maybe if they can't come to an agreement with Rantanen, maybe they flip him before the March 7th trade deadline for even more than they gave up"

Really, Frank? Is your brain turned on? From who? Who's giving you a player as good as Necas and then more??

I feel like I'm in a twilight zone episode.

On one had you've got Rantanen producing with MacK + Makar but apparently that's got nothing to do with it - HE'S THE MAN that was making it all happen seemingly according to these f***ing idiots who don't watch more than 2 f***ing Colorado games in a calendar year.

On the OTHER hand, you got a guy like Necas who's been able to produce 50+ points playing mainly with Kotkaniemi and Eric frikkin' Robinson???

Are these people completely stupid?

 

[a mangy Meowth]

Are these people completely stupid?

Seravalli? Oh yes

 

[SirLoinOfCloth]

Knowing nothing about any of this the thing that surprises me is Rantanen's surprise. That to me suggests his agent was not really keeping him informed of the seriousness of pushing against the Avs. Everyone knew what our cap situation was. To think you can push hard to get more money is folly. It was never going to work.

 

[Gumballhead]

Lofin, I think complacent is a great word here, concerning both Mikko's camp's approach to a new contract, and Mikko's overall play and how the team continued to use him.

 

[EdAVSfan]

From all we've read, this came as a total surprise for everyone (except the Avs management of course). One can wonder if Mikko would've lowered his ask in the end, if he had known a trade was really a possibility.

And please, don't give me the "he and his agent should've known". I mean sure, technically yes. But we saw how this played out with Landy, and how it has played out with other big name free agents who have entered their last season without a contract. It very well might've been that the Avs never even communicated to the agent or Mikko that they would consider trading him. They wanted to keep this well under the wraps, and only contacted a select few teams (according to LeBrun and Friedman). There really were only a few people who saw this possibility. Kyper, Lavoie, and I guess Friedman according to his own words but he never reported anything on it.

I choose to believe Kyper in what he has heard, because it supports my narrative in that it could've come down to a mere 250-750k of difference. If so, I'm sad. But I'm not going to condemn the Avs for it. There are sound reasons to move on from Mikko, even if he had signed for let's say 11M per. It's very true that he has grown a bit complacent in his role. I've always maintained that he absolutely can drive a line, and he has done that in the past. It has not been true for the last two seasons, and one has to wonder if this is just a combination of heavy workload, and the uncertainty of contract negotiations. Or, it wery well could be that he is past his prime. I think the Avs made that calculation. Mikko has never been a great skater, and the league is only getting faster. Mikko will never stop being effective, he's way too skilled and big for that to happen. But his effectiveness will probably take a hit as he loses a step. The Avs probably thought this could be sooner rather than later on the timeline of his new contract.

Necas is a good skater, and is cost controlled for next season. And he probably is going to make single digits even in his next contract, if the Avs act fast during the summer. That's a good thing. It allows the Avs to probably bring back Drouin, who will get a raise but maybe not that big of a contract because he's still injured half the time. And if we can actually get Landeskog and Nichuskin back more regularly, the top-6 is still very skilled and should be effective. That's a lot to hope for however. For whatever flaws we all can see in Mikko's game, he doesn't really miss games. He has had two freak injuries, but otherwise the man just stays in the lineup. That's not a small feat in this Ambulanche team.

Hopefully Mikko does well for himself and with Carolina. I guess I wouldn't mind seeing him re-sign there. I hope he can come end his career with the Avs eventually.

I really don’t mind which insider you want to believe. But it’s very clear Friedman was fed. He’s the only one to have provided and extremely specific 11.75 x 8 offer. If that offer wasn’t made, don’t you think Rants camp would come out and challenge that number. Kypreos had been vague only offering what wasn’t requested but never getting specific.
Don’t you find it interesting that Kypreos has likely contact with the agent but isn’t actually coming out with what his client requested.

It’s extremely clear what the Avs offered. The other side of this has been very vague. Now, that could possibly be because they still need to negotiate a contract.

But Rantanen’s comments about how « I didn’t know we were in a rush » are incredibly irksome to me. His camp KNOWS that the longer they drag it out, the more leverage they gain. The agent knows colorados situation. They know they are cap-strapped moving forward, they know the Avs are low asset-wise, bottom 10 prospect pool. The agents would be foolish to not know these things. These are issues all in Rantanen’s corner for contract negotiation and to have more leverage moving forward. Not to mention how long they stretched out his first contract while he was an RFA.

I don’t blame Rantanen for trying to max out his contract. He should. I also don’t blame the Avs for avoiding the pressure they were going to ultimately get if they go past the trade deadline without a contract. That pressure is more likely to result in either a worse contract extension or a complete loss of the player with no value back.

 

[Vaslof]

From all we've read, this came as a total surprise for everyone (except the Avs management of course). One can wonder if Mikko would've lowered his ask in the end, if he had known a trade was really a possibility.

And please, don't give me the "he and his agent should've known". I mean sure, technically yes. But we saw how this played out with Landy, and how it has played out with other big name free agents who have entered their last season without a contract. It very well might've been that the Avs never even communicated to the agent or Mikko that they would consider trading him. They wanted to keep this well under the wraps, and only contacted a select few teams (according to LeBrun and Friedman). There really were only a few people who saw this possibility. Kyper, Lavoie, and I guess Friedman according to his own words but he never reported anything on it.

I choose to believe Kyper in what he has heard, because it supports my narrative in that it could've come down to a mere 250-750k of difference. If so, I'm sad. But I'm not going to condemn the Avs for it. There are sound reasons to move on from Mikko, even if he had signed for let's say 11M per. It's very true that he has grown a bit complacent in his role. I've always maintained that he absolutely can drive a line, and he has done that in the past. It has not been true for the last two seasons, and one has to wonder if this is just a combination of heavy workload, and the uncertainty of contract negotiations. Or, it wery well could be that he is past his prime. I think the Avs made that calculation. Mikko has never been a great skater, and the league is only getting faster. Mikko will never stop being effective, he's way too skilled and big for that to happen. But his effectiveness will probably take a hit as he loses a step. The Avs probably thought this could be sooner rather than later on the timeline of his new contract.

Necas is a good skater, and is cost controlled for next season. And he probably is going to make single digits even in his next contract, if the Avs act fast during the summer. That's a good thing. It allows the Avs to probably bring back Drouin, who will get a raise but maybe not that big of a contract because he's still injured half the time. And if we can actually get Landeskog and Nichuskin back more regularly, the top-6 is still very skilled and should be effective. That's a lot to hope for however. For whatever flaws we all can see in Mikko's game, he doesn't really miss games. He has had two freak injuries, but otherwise the man just stays in the lineup. That's not a small feat in this Ambulanche team.

Hopefully Mikko does well for himself and with Carolina. I guess I wouldn't mind seeing him re-sign there. I hope he can come end his career with the Avs eventually.

It doesn't matter if it "would have came down to 250k-750k difference" if the agent plays hardball at 14M. You are saying that he didn't play hardball, but staying at 14M when in reality they were allegedly willing to go down to 12M most definitely counts as playing hardball. They were 2.25M apart with about a month left to go until trade deadline.

 

[Gumballhead]

Knowing nothing about any of this the thing that surprises me is Rantanen's surprise. That to me suggests his agent was not really keeping him informed of the seriousness of pushing against the Avs. Everyone knew what our cap situation was. To think you can push hard to get more money is folly. It was never going to work.

I said before I think Mikko is kind of like a big kid, and I really think he just thought everything would turn out ok, mommy and daddy would never send him off to boarding school, even if he starts getting into trouble and his grades suddenly fell off a cliff because all he wants to do is play baseball and watch baseball and collect baseball cards all day long.

OK, maybe I was projecting a bit there towards the end, but I think there's truth to what I am saying.

 

[LOFIN]

Kypreos had been vague only offering what wasn’t requested but never getting specific.
Don’t you find it interesting that Kypreos has likely contact with the agent but isn’t actually coming out with what his client requested.

Kyper has provided a ballpark numerous times. The number he has been given was been between 11.75 and 12.5 (what Rantanen camp was looking for). He said that Rantanen camp was not looking for more money than MacKinnon, but around the ballpark.

Friedman did report the number 11.75 as last offer. Someone on the Finnish hockey forums who apparently knows one of the Finnish players with the Avs, said the last offer was 11.5

In the end, the Avs moved on, and now Mikko has to move on. It is what it is. I find it sad how many people have turned on him.

 

[LOFIN]

They were 2.25M apart with about a month left to go until trade deadline.

Well, that's an opinion at this point. There are so many conflicting reports. Like I said, I choose to believe Kyper, LeBrun and Mikko's camp. Some can choose to believe Friedman (which is understandable as he is the #1 insider).

 

[EdAVSfan]

Kyper has provided a ballpark numerous times. The number he has been given was been between 11.75 and 12.5 (what Rantanen camp was looking for). He said that Rantanen camp was not looking for more money than MacKinnon, but around the ballpark.

Friedman did report the number 11.75 as last offer. Someone on the Finnish hockey forums who apparently knows one of the Finnish players with the Avs, said the last offer was 11.5

In the end, the Avs moved on, and now Mikko has to move on. It is what it is. I find it sad how many people have turned on him.

I don’t think people have necessarily turned on him. The reality is, we are Avalanche fans first. If I have the choice of having Rantanen on my team and no cup vs Rantanen not on my team, and a cup, I take the latter. I suspect almost all here would. Except for maybe the people here who are simply Finnish fans and not necessarily Avalanche fans

There are players we love, players we like, players we dislike and players we hate. But above all else, we want the Avalanche to win. And we want every player that passes through our organization to want to win. And part of wanting to win means being able to build a team that CAN win. And salaries are a major factor in the ability to win. Let’s be honest, had Rantanen accepted an under 12M contract, he’d likely be heralded on here for taking a deal that’s helpful to the Avalanche.

 

[Bender]

Seravalli? Oh yes

He said earlier in the podcast that he didn't think Necas and MacKinnon would play well together.

Then they brought in Johnny Liles and they talked about the Rangers game and Colby Cohen said "It looked really good yesterday"... and then seravalli pretty much admitted that he didn't watch the game.

Bravo - keep talking out of your ass you f***ing loser.

 

[Muffin]

I have a feeling his play in the past 2 years has something to do with the Avs not wanting to pay him. If we can see it the Avs can see it. Ismo was right.

 

[John Mandalorian]

One thing that I feel is interesting and getting overlooked is that Mikko’s agent (obviously) is running to Kypreos to do damage control with this. But ask yourself this, if Mikko and his agents were really in lockstep, would there be a need to do this?

 

[EdAVSfan]

Kyper has provided a ballpark numerous times. The number he has been given was been between 11.75 and 12.5 (what Rantanen camp was looking for). He said that Rantanen camp was not looking for more money than MacKinnon, but around the ballpark.

Friedman did report the number 11.75 as last offer. Someone on the Finnish hockey forums who apparently knows one of the Finnish players with the Avs, said the last offer was 11.5

In the end, the Avs moved on, and now Mikko has to move on. It is what it is. I find it sad how many people have turned on him.

You see, the way I interpret Kypreos is that number (11.75-12.5) is where Rantanen would’ve landed over time. But not necessarily where he was NOW. That’s an important distinction.

 

[LOFIN]

I don’t think people have necessarily turned on him. The reality is, we are Avalanche fans first. If I have the choice of having Rantanen on my team and no cup vs Rantanen not on my team, and a cup, I take the latter.

Oh for sure, everyone is. Even me, who's favorite player is Rantanen. I just described in the post at the top of the page that there are very good valid reasons to move on from Mikko.

It's the people who are now bashing him about screwing up this negotiation, and some even claiming "well he was not that good or important to the team anyway". Not going to name names, but there are some people with that attitude.

You see, the way I interpret Kypreos is that number (11.75-12.5) is where Rantanen would’ve landed over time. But not necessarily where he was NOW. That’s an important distinction.

This is true. Then I guess we can have the debate about should the Avs have communicated it better for the Avs that they are going to move on if a deal isn't agreed upon now. I don't think the Avs did. Which was their choice.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

I find it sad how many people have turned on him.

I haven't seen more than a handful of bad things said about him, and I think fans should be given some grace when it comes to emotional reactions about the trade.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Oh for sure, everyone is. Even me, who's favorite player is Rantanen. I just described in the post at the top of the page that there are very good valid reasons to move on from Mikko.

It's the people who are now bashing him about screwing up this negotiation, and some even claiming "well he was not that good or important to the team anyway". Not going to name names, but there are some people with that attitude.


This is true. Then I guess we can have the debate about should the Avs have communicated it better for the Avs that they are going to move on if a deal isn't agreed upon now. I don't think the Avs did. Which was their choice.

Yes, and this was my stance in a much earlier post. I don’t know how clear the Avs made it that this was pretty much the highest they were going. Perhaps communication was not good. Perhaps they did say it but Rants camp didn’t believe it. Maybe it’s something that’s always said in these types of negotiations but is never really truthful.

I’d love to get transcripts of how these conversations go. But we don’t. So we’ll never know how transparent this was.

 

[LOFIN]

I have a feeling his play in the past 2 years has something to do with the Avs not wanting to pay him. If we can see it the Avs can see it. Ismo was right.

I think it will be interesting to see how he fares in Carolina. Because I think there is a very good chance he picks up his play to a level he was two years ago. I think he had grown a bit complacent during his last two seasons Well, not really a matter of opinion, stats back that up. This trade might very well a good kick in the butt for him.

Perhaps they did say it but Rants camp didn’t believe it. Maybe it’s something that’s always said in these types of negotiations but is never really truthful.

I think that's very obvious from what we've heard from everyone. And like I said, this is pretty unprecedented. Not just with the Avs, who dragged on the Landeskog negotiations within 24 hours of the free agency, but around the league. So if the Avs didn't communicate it clearly (which I believe they didn't because they wanted no noise around this), they had no reason to believe they would really pull the trigger on a trade.

 

[SirLoinOfCloth]

This is true. Then I guess we can have the debate about should the Avs have communicated it better for the Avs that they are going to move on if a deal isn't agreed upon now. I don't think the Avs did. Which was their choice.

I feel like the writing was on the wall for that, right? If a deal wasn't happening then Mikko was heading to UFA and would walk for nothing. No way the Avs let that happen. If Rantanen's agent didn't understand or recognize that as a possibility then he needs to re-evaluate some stuff.

His agent also came out right away and said how the Avs didn't even try and that Mikko was really hurt. I believe the latter but not the former at all. CMac made it quite clear that the Avs were intent on trying to re-sign Mikko, but had to make an extremely difficult decision to move on when it looked like talks were going nowhere. I suggest that Mikko's agent's public statements are nothing more than PR because he somehow managed to let this happen on his watch while at the same time resulting in his client being taken by surprise and extremely upset.

The Avs cap situation was public knowledge, even without a physical number Mikko's camp should have known the ballpark they would be prepared to pay, and his agent decided to keep pushing for more as he probably just assumed incorrectly that it would get done at whatever the price. He was wrong, he overplayed his hand, and what happened happened. I don't blame Mikko for this at all, I do apportion significant blame to his agent though.

 

[LOFIN]

I feel like the writing was on the wall for that, right? If a deal wasn't happening then Mikko was heading to UFA and would walk for nothing. No way the Avs let that happen. If Rantanen's agent didn't understand or recognize that as a possibility then he needs to re-evaluate some stuff.

I'm just going to quote my own post here:

And please, don't give me the "he and his agent should've known". I mean sure, technically yes. But we saw how this played out with Landy, and how it has played out with other big name free agents who have entered their last season without a contract. It very well might've been that the Avs never even communicated to the agent or Mikko that they would consider trading him. They wanted to keep this well under the wraps, and only contacted a select few teams (according to LeBrun and Friedman). There really were only a few people who saw this possibility. Kyper, Lavoie, and I guess Friedman according to his own words but he never reported anything on it.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Oh for sure, everyone is. Even me, who's favorite player is Rantanen. I just described in the post at the top of the page that there are very good valid reasons to move on from Mikko.

It's the people who are now bashing him about screwing up this negotiation, and some even claiming "well he was not that good or important to the team anyway". Not going to name names, but there are some people with that attitude.


This is true. Then I guess we can have the debate about should the Avs have communicated it better for the Avs that they are going to move on if a deal isn't agreed upon now. I don't think the Avs did. Which was their choice.

I feel bad for him. It seems like his agency filled his head with ideas and coached him up on how this would go. Then when it didn’t happen that way, Mikko was the one facing the media.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

I feel bad for him.

I don't. Dude's got tens of millions of dollars