Finding a competent head coach to replace MSL, if it eventually comes to that, shouldn’t be that hard to do. The team has harder problems to solve than that, however.
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Coaching is a serious problem.
- Thread starter Habby4Life
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The good : Powerplay, transition and offensive deployment seems to be relatively good this year and improved. We do play well on special teams for the first time in a long time.
The realllllly bad : Our defensive play is atrocious. I don't think this hybrid man to man/zone coverage in the defensive zone is working, as we don't have a lot of good IQ defensive D (only Guhle at the moment would fit the profile, and he's injured). Would change schemes and simplify things a bit so you have guys like Mailloux ahd Xhekaj make simpler plays and cut down on turnovers at the expense of maybe our transition game. Seattle had a two man forecheck with the third forward down low also, and it wrecks us because players were trying to escape the pressure by doing a drop pass behind the net instead of going directly to the simpler play on the board. I guess Seattle was well-prepared and knew about our play tendencies. If the scheme's change doesn't work, maybe at some point, Robidas could be let go and replace with a more experienced D coach and a trade for a RD could be made (a second pair D between 26-30 y/o). I don't mind us playing more prospects and try to develop them, but if they play in a role over their current level of playing, their progress could stagnate. Savard will be gone at the deadline and isn't a modern day type D and more of 5-6 D and Matheson is a 3 D at best. We need a veteran presence in the top 4 that can play with Matheson/Guhle.
I wouldn't can St-Louis at the moment, but i think he'll need to reassess and adapt to his current roster. If not, he'll be the transition coach and will be gone in 2026.
The realllllly bad : Our defensive play is atrocious. I don't think this hybrid man to man/zone coverage in the defensive zone is working, as we don't have a lot of good IQ defensive D (only Guhle at the moment would fit the profile, and he's injured). Would change schemes and simplify things a bit so you have guys like Mailloux ahd Xhekaj make simpler plays and cut down on turnovers at the expense of maybe our transition game. Seattle had a two man forecheck with the third forward down low also, and it wrecks us because players were trying to escape the pressure by doing a drop pass behind the net instead of going directly to the simpler play on the board. I guess Seattle was well-prepared and knew about our play tendencies. If the scheme's change doesn't work, maybe at some point, Robidas could be let go and replace with a more experienced D coach and a trade for a RD could be made (a second pair D between 26-30 y/o). I don't mind us playing more prospects and try to develop them, but if they play in a role over their current level of playing, their progress could stagnate. Savard will be gone at the deadline and isn't a modern day type D and more of 5-6 D and Matheson is a 3 D at best. We need a veteran presence in the top 4 that can play with Matheson/Guhle.
I wouldn't can St-Louis at the moment, but i think he'll need to reassess and adapt to his current roster. If not, he'll be the transition coach and will be gone in 2026.
As much as this team "showed us something" last season they are showing us something now and they are doing it on home ice.
Yeah... Coaching and development that is a positive issue as evidenced by the progress of our U25 core.Well if those players are as formidable as you say, then it is a coaching issue.
Rational expectations would help with better assessments
No Slaf or Hutson? Interesting.
But ok, if that's your definition of our core, let's roll with that.
As I pointed out, our 23-25 year old players are all ahead of the curve from their respective draft spots (except Dach, who is a bit behind it).
Again here, rational expectations that consider the actual context of the players and their development curve would make for a better assessment.
Very few players are elite as rookies. Suzuki's curve is far more indicative of how prospects progress to ppg/top line-pairing impact players.
He's there.
Cole is there (earlier).
Guhle is right there (if he can stay healthy)
Dach and Newhook are still well within a curve that could see them get there.
Patience isn't easy, but being frustrated over unrealistic and irrational expectations seems more difficult to me.
I want to see us build a sustained contender.
I think there are ample signs that we are right on track to do so. Complaining that it isn't happening fast enough serves little purpose imo & reflects a misunderstanding of what it takes to build that kind of roster... No quick fixes or short cuts, as Yzerman is discovering (though seemingly not really learning from his screw ups).
Oilers lost 8-1 last year.
Not sure how many other teams games you watch, but last night's performance was not anywhere near out of the ordinary as you suggest... Teams lay eggs, including contenders.
The actual play last night, especially in the first, wasn't nearly as bad or slanted to Seattle as the drama posters suggest. Bad luck, and not much push back... Happens.
Anyone who has played elite level team sport knows what that looks like. Suzuki's post game comments were actually perfect.
The issue is that posters seem to have had unrealistic expectations of what this season would look like... Oddly, I was one of the more bullish posters about how good this season might go lol. Despite that, I'm neither particularly surprised nor concerned with the early going.
Patience of a rebuild and a young roster isn't for everyone I guess
Well, yes. Is this a truck question?
We're 1 point out of a WC spot 10 games into the season.
The sky isn't falling lol.
Nah... Impatient fans, many of which were vocal about the team NOT being a playoff worthy roster before the season started (& before we lost Guhle, Slaf, Barron, Strubble Laine, RB to injuries), is the only issue here.
Out in the real world, injuries are hurting us badly again. KH is reportedly looking for trade help, a normal response in line with their stated objectives for this year.
Season is young. Our team is very young. The best is yet to come.
Future is bright
Frankenheimer
Sir, this is an Arber
Every defender has regressed? Every single one? Maybe be more precise. Matheson's value has skyrocketed, Guhle is improving, and Xhekaj has always been a project with perhaps the most complex role on the team. Mailloux? (started this year) Barron? (improved since coaching change) Hutson? (just starting this year, and given a ton of responsibility) Savard? (about the same as usual). Who are you talking about specifically then?
We have a nice project going. Improving season to season. Nobody has expectations of competing for the cup this year, so he's addressing one problem at a time. This year, we've significantly improved our pp/pk. We've basically had two lemons and both share in common terrible goalie performances. This has created anxiety and fear, and modified normal behaviour. Yesterday, RDS chose the first goal after 30 seconds as the turning point of the game. There's a fragility in a young team that needs to be addressed, and the goaltending is not helping.
Bottom line: at some point you need to make a commitment to management. Let them see their project through. Myself, in spite of these scary terrible games, I see an overall arc of progress and I'm not freaking out demanding changes every time there's a bad game or two, or even a bad month. MSL is clearly among the most intelligent coaches in the league and he doesn't hide behind platitudes. Making an 8-10pt improvement this year would be amazing for second youngest team in the league.
Yeah... Coaching and development that is a positive issue as evidenced by the progress of our U25 core.
Rational expectations would help with better assessments
No Slaf or Hutson? Interesting.
But ok, if that's your definition of our core, let's roll with that.
As I pointed out, our 23-25 year old players are all ahead of the curve from their respective draft spots (except Dach, who is a bit behind it).
Again here, rational expectations that consider the actual context of the players and their development curve would make for a better assessment.
Very few players are elite as rookies. Suzuki's curve is far more indicative of how prospects progress to ppg/top line-pairing impact players.
He's there.
Cole is there (earlier).
Guhle is right there (if he can stay healthy)
Dach and Newhook are still well within a curve that could see them get there.
Patience isn't easy, but being frustrated over unrealistic and irrational expectations seems more difficult to me.
I want to see us build a sustained contender.
I think there are ample signs that we are right on track to do so. Complaining that it isn't happening fast enough serves little purpose imo & reflects a misunderstanding of what it takes to build that kind of roster... No quick fixes or short cuts, as Yzerman is discovering (though seemingly not really learning from his screw ups).
I don't see progress in the U25. Where is the evidence Dach Newhook CC Suzuki are progressing now ? They don't seem to care about losing, even if they score more points they don't seem to be difference makers at this stage. They are lost in even simple defensive tasks
Again, if those players are as great as you think then MTL currently has 4 top 6 players entering their prime, several top 4 Dmen, veterans in the bottom 6 and in defense. If the players are not the problem then there is something with coaching.
Having one rookie (Hutson) in the starting lilineup (two if you count for Kapanen) does not change the picture of the whole team. And again regarding Slaf, he is a 1OA in his D+3 already having a 7+m contract in his pocket.
I am not frustrated because of losing as explained (even though when your 1C is in his D+8 you hope your team is close to contending) but yes product on the ice sucks right now.
Many teams have been rebuilding through draft only for years for no results. I have friends being DET, BUF, OTT fans (and I supect ANA, ARI fans feel the same) it really sucks to have your team lose during so many years.
Habs Icing
Formerly Onice
Paddyjack
Registered User
I don't have SC expectations.
I had possible but highly unlikely WC spot.
However, what I had 100% expected is team progression from last year, but right there starting Day 1 against Toronto I started voicing my doubts. And not because of this 8-2 game yesterday. That night we had pretty much our complete roster from last year, and we got teared apart by Toronto, and escaped with a lucky win.
This thread is called "coaching problem", not "MSL problem". And just like people were ripping apart the PP coach last season, I point my finger towards the Defense coach. I said since day one that MSL needs help, but people like you just dismiss such comments with "they are young". Well, exactly, they need to be coached properly right now if you want them to grow correctly in a proper system. They have to be happy, otherwise, they get bored, they want to be traded.
salbutera
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Has it ever crossed your mind the coach is trying to become the lightning rod and deflect attention away from his players - specifically young players?
I’d have sworn 80% of posters picked the team to finish cellar dwellers …
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jackeymoon
Tropical!
Newhook is a 3rd line small forward with very little upside. I actually don't get why they traded for him. Far from a core player.Well if those players are as formidable as you say, then it is a coaching issue.
The core : Suzuki, CC, Dach, Newhook is 23-25, they are not rookies anymore, let s not treat them like it. Slaf gets a bit of a pass even though as a 1OA expectations increase ealy usually. Guhle, Barron, Xhekaj, Strubble are no rookies either.
Do you really want to be the Hawks before Kane and Toews ? Like the Oilers before McDavid tanking eery year waiting for the messiah ? That's even less likely to happen with 32 teams now...
The core is: Slaf, Demidov, Suzuki, Hutson, Fowler and maybe add Guhle to that mix. CC is a secondary piece imo and Dach MIGHT be able to become a core player but I have my doubts. I suspect Luke Tuch and Owen Beck will be very important pieces added to this puzzle in the near future.
jackeymoon
Tropical!
Had it ever crossed your mind that MSL is woefully unqualified for a head coaching job in the NHL? Most NHL head coaches spend years coaching NCAA, AHL, Junior, ect.
I have serious issues, not with his arrogant speech, but with his lineup. His lines make 0 sense, his love of Anderson and Dvorak makes 0 sense and not putting Hutson on the 1st PP unit but playing him 25 mins+ a night is just terrible bench management.
His comments regarding Xhekaj would imply that he wants to deflect attention except for him ?
Given the contract they gave CC and Guhle they are clearly part of the core in the way management is building this team.
jackeymoon
Tropical!
I don't think so in the case of Caufield. He's a goal scorer and they're certainly at a premium but is he a core piece? I don't think so. Hes a speciality player. Guhle likely is a core piece (but he has to stay healthy!)His comments regarding Xhekaj would imply that he wants to deflect attention except for him ?
Given the contract they gave CC and Guhle they are clearly part of the core in the way management is building this team.
salbutera
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FWIW - all youth hockey coaches & refs per USA Hockey need to undergo training (which is standard in any hockey locale), a lot of the on line training material is conducted by??? …..MSL & Roger Grillo. I have to sit through it every year to be certified to coach my boys.
In fact many of USA Hockey’s new age systems & concepts used in youth, prep school, USNTDP and NCAA were developed by MSL & Grillo.
The best U14 youth hockey program in the world at present (MidFairfield) the program was developed by MSL & Grillo - Zegras’ father runs it now
So it’s accurate to say MSL doesn’t have pro / Junior / college coaching experience but it was always expected that MSL head coaching experience would grow along w his young players being developed
As for the lineup, what would HuGo’s take be if UFA to be Dvorak was sitting out or Anderson who’s been a big part of the PK success thus far
As for Hutson, well one Adam Fox did not assume 1st PP responsibilities w Gorton’s NYR till his 2nd season …
Ask yourself how much TOI the young players would be getting if Therrien, Julien, Vigneault etc were still behind the bench, since that’s what’s being asked?
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But in any case if you look at what is supposed to be your core when competing (given draft position and asset spent) you have
CC Suzuki Slaf (D+3)
Demidov (not here yet) Dach Newhook
so 5 people of your top 6 (at least as thought from management) are already on the team even if one can still be considered very young.
Guhle Reinbacher (not here yet)
Hutson Barron
Xhekaj Mailloux
so 5 of your 6 Dmen are here already. This is definitely a young team, no doubt but if we are realisitc Armia Evans Anderson Gallagher Dvorak should all be bottom 6 players on a good team (ignoring their salary for a minute) and Matheson should be second pairing material, Savard third pairing material.
This team should not be as bad as it plays (to be fair the only deserved wins were OTT, STL and PHI and they were lucky to get a point in NYI and not to get caught up in PHI). To me really either MSL is not implementing the right tactics or this is not the right core.
BLONG7
Registered User
At some point, MSL will have a visit from Hughes...............help should be on the way.
Patience is key...................that said MSL is not progressing as well as his team. These guys need their coach to be better....................asking for a timeout or a goalie change early in a game is not a great ask.
Marty has to be better...............the kids and the young vets are progressing. He can, change a game with a simple timeout, or change the momentum, with a timeout or a goalie change......his double down on that 2nd line is god awful..............and some nights it's evident his D pairngs are not working.
Here.........we are.
le_sean
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Matheson’s value has skyrocketed because he was the only offensive defenceman on the team last year and put up points. He’s always been shit defensively. Mailloux is horrible, why bring him up? Barron stinks too. Savard has regressed, that much is obvious. He’s certainly not better. Xhekaj has become worse, he’s even too scared to be an enforcer now. Guhle is the only one that looks good but he’s just simply the smartest and most talented one.
Yoor
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Well ok, fine I understand that we have rookies and youngsters on D but they have been playing hockey at elite levels growing up basically most of their lives. I understand this is the best league in the world but do you mean to suggest that they have completely forgotten how to play defense..like completely? Or are you suggesting that they simply aren't skilled enough? If that's the case then we have some terrible scouting. Or could it be that perhaps the coach is trying to implement a system that doesn't quite match the current skill set of the young D they are trying to develop? They need to simplify things in the D zone, the coach should be able to recognize this imo.
HabzSauce
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It's a cult lol
We have looked so bad this year it's incredible. I thought he was good for the kids in first 2.5 years. He let the kids play, let them build confidence and feel good about themselves. Which is good for a young team but I'm starting to wonder if he's already reached his shelf life.
Team needs better quality coaching. Or maybe it's still early and it's all the players fault idk... we'll get a better picture after a few more months of games/get Laine back
Yoor
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I know you are joking but i just don't understand how some people are ok with such a green coach in MTL. The NHL is not a developmental league for coaches..ugh.
Yoor
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junyab
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I tried telling everyone last year, this past offseason, and from the beginning in this season, that our goaltending is well below average. Everyone argued "No, they're better than average". They're not. Go down the list of teams and look at everyone else's tandem, our backstops are awful and inconsistent.
Couple that with our young D core and you have a recipe for disaster, MSL is the least of our worries. No one else is going to come in and turn this ship around. Come, join me, embrace another tank year and another top 5 pick.
Couple that with our young D core and you have a recipe for disaster, MSL is the least of our worries. No one else is going to come in and turn this ship around. Come, join me, embrace another tank year and another top 5 pick.
