Coaching is a serious problem.

[Lafleurs Guy]

Guys...those who don't think Marty has a structure, wrong, he does, but it's stupid.

He wants players to play man on man until a bit inside the blue line then collapse into a zone defense.

It's stupid because players are ambivalent about supporting their mates along the boards 10 feet inside the blueline, thus losing possession battles....and then collapse into zone defense, prolonging us getting trapped inside our zone.

Just watch the games....I wasn't aware of it until the Pens game and then confirmed it in the Kings game.

Marty biggest issue is he doesn't have experience to know his players and systems limitation. He's learning on the job...and at our win/loss column.

Or maybe you’re more concerned about the short term win/loss column than he is.

It’s pretty clear the team has long term ambitions to win the cup. Sometimes the way to get there may not coincide with the best way to win now.

Does anyone doubt for example, that we would win more games playing the trap? We probably would. But is playing that system conducive to player development? Will it help us long term? I don’t think it is.

I’m not saying MSL can’t do a better job or that the only choice is man to man or the trap - just saying that they have a plan in place that’s probably more geared towards skill development.

 

[HankyZetts]

I think a big part of the problem, which Marty has to take blame for too, is that our captain is a nonchalant player. He doesn't move his feet consistently enough, nor does he get to the dirty areas first, most of the time.

When he's skating our team is completely different. He sets the tone. Right now with dach clearly still recovering his stride from off-season surgery, it's not a good look in the top 6.

The best teams captains and #1 centers are generally 200ft beasts. Very rarely are they nonchalant in their play style. I think Marty has to push him harder, to get him to be more of a high motor guy

 

[puckeater]

The grass is always greener elsewhere.

 

[1909]

If you want to talk about team structure that’s fine. But don’t invoke Mario Tremblay and think you’ve made a point. You haven’t, they are complete opposite coaching styles. I wouldn’t want Tremblay anywhere near our young players.

Again, difficult to say on MSL because his teams are so young. How often do we see players who muff up plays they should make? It happens a lot and I’m not sure you can blame the coach for that.

There’s no doubt MSL could tighten things up and we could win more games. But the style he has right now allows younger players a little more offensive freedom. And for right now, I’m good with that.

Our key prospects have progressed since he’s taken over. To me, that’s the most important thing. I care more about about players developing than I am about the short term effects in the standings that would come if we implemented a more defensive trap style system.

Year three of a rebuild - it’s exactly what you’d expect. Young players breaking into the lineup, trying to establish themselves and making mistakes along the way. This is not a surprise.

I am not comparing Tremblay and MSL in terms of personnality. All I said is that both of them had ZERO coaching experience. But nowadays most are giving the benefit of the doubt about MSL. who seems to have no structure OR if he has one, a hard time implementing it. You know the rebuild could be shorter with an experienced coach. I do agree that MSL has still some bad cards in his hands, especially his veteran players. But being ready to start a game and be competitive should not be an option.

I think a big part of the problem, which Marty has to take blame for too, is that our captain is a nonchalant player. He doesn't move his feet consistently enough, nor does he get to the dirty areas first, most of the time.

When he's skating our team is completely different. He sets the tone. Right now with dach clearly still recovering his stride from off-season surgery, it's not a good look in the top 6.

The best teams captains and #1 centers are generally 200ft beasts. Very rarely are they nonchalant in their play style. I think Marty has to push him harder, to get him to be more of a high motor guy

So far, before this season, Suzuki was never a lazy player. What happened ?

 

[Habby4Life]

I am not comparing Tremblay and MSL in terms of personnality. All I said is that both of them had ZERO coaching experience. But nowadays most are giving the benefit of the doubt about MSL. who seems to have no structure OR if he has one, a hard time implementing it. You know the rebuild could be shorter with an experienced coach. I do agree that MSL has still some bad cards in his hands, especially his veteran players. But being ready to start a game and be competitive should not be an option.


So far, before this season, Suzuki was never a lazy player. What happened ?

I’m not sure being badly outshot, spending more time chasing in your own zone than playing offense or having the puck is some kind of brilliant skill development plan. Guess it might improve skating and conditioning, lol. Neither is losing night after night.

Team looks so unorganized and I’m starting to wondering if it is wearing on guys. Some people have MSL so high on a pedestal you would think he was the next Scotty Bowman or Tarasov.

He’s great for the TANK

 

[1909]

I’m not sure being badly outshot, spending more time chasing in your own zone than playing offense or having the puck is some kind of brilliant skill development plan. Guess it might improve skating and conditioning, lol. Neither is losing night after night.

Team looks so unorganized and I’m starting to wondering if it is wearing on guys. Some people have MSL so high on a pedestal you would think he was the next Scotty Bowman or Tarasov.

He’s great for the TANK

The more they lose, the more they are spending the youthful energy of their key young players. At some point, they gonna be fed up to lose…. IF they have a spine and pride.

 

[Habby4Life]

The more they lose, the more they are spending the youthful energy of their key young players. At some point, they gonna be fed up to lose…. IF they have a spine and pride.

I agree.

The idea that playing well defensively is detrimental to skill development is absurd.
Perennial losing and be thumbed most nights is. Got to be taxing on guys like NS.

I laugh when I hear people say he won’t be the coach when this team is good. Then why F would he be the right guy when they are bad?

 

[LaP]

I agree.

The idea that playing well defensively is detrimental to skill development is absurd.
Perennial losing and be thumbed most nights is. Got to be taxing on guys like NS.

Perennial usually refer to many years. We went in the cup final in 2021. That was 3 seasons ago. I don't know why i have to repeat that once a week.

 

[Habby4Life]

Perennial usually refer to many years. We went in the cup final in 2021. That was 3 seasons ago. I don't know why i have to repeat that once a week.

I don’t know, maybe because they are in yr 4 of finishing at the bottom, probably lottery pick and no reason to think this team magically becomes a serious playoff contender next year.

IDK maybe, 4/5 yrs of serious losing looks perennial to me.

What in YR 6 we still going to be holding onto the fluke cup run. They were shit then too, it was fun but it was mirage.

 

[Angler]

Do I think we have a "serious coaching problem"? No

Do I think the team could play with more structure? Yes

 

[BLONG7]

The grass is always greener elsewhere.

We can think great things of MSL, but he is not beyond being called out either.............love the guy, but he has to get and be better the same as the players.

I think it's way too early to get riled up for nothing, but these guys have to get it together, and MSL should also be looking in the mirror.
Their play in their own end, is downright horrible. It simply has to change......that's on the coach to get the proper changes....they are 5 on 5 and they chase the guy with the puck with zero intensity......they keep it to the perimeter, until they don't and bang it's in the net.......

It is imperative they get it out of their end, better than they have been.............Fix it boys!

 

[19VJ17]

we definitely have a coaching problem, but a lot of fans love Marty. which I'm happy with in one way, it means we can probably still get another top five pick and hopefully a game breaker. plus our defenseman are very promising but everybody's going to have to give them another two to three years before they mature. so if we keep Marty for one more year I'll be okay with it. when they do bring in a qualified coach his mouth will be drooling at the talent we've assembled

 

[Naslundforever]

we definitely have a coaching problem, but a lot of fans love Marty. which I'm happy with in one way, it means we can probably still get another top five pick and hopefully a game breaker. plus our defenseman are very promising but everybody's going to have to give them another two to three years before they mature. so if we keep Marty for one more year I'll be okay with it. when they do bring in a qualified coach his mouth will be drooling at the talent we've assembled

or if they end up underwhelming, ride the goalie while having the boys play a disciplined and energetic north-south dump and chase + collapsing zone D… Show up for game 1 of the season, show rispek, things of that nature. I sense a Michel return…

 

[CharleyHorse]

Slaf was gonna be the player he always was gonna be.

CC looks worse than his rookie season. Suzuki looks worse than he’s ever looked.
Guhle was a stud from his first game and he’s been sabotaged by playing RD.
Who exactly has he’s helped out?

Not the vets that’s for sure. Heck it took Armia leaving him to play better.
Other players leave and look better elsewhere

Come on now.

As for players doing better after getting traded, in Kovacevic's case, it may have more to do with playing with more experienced NHL players on the devil's team. In Harris' case, your assertion is simply not true.

 

[CharleyHorse]

I have no opinion on MSL either way but I wouldn’t come to too many hard conclusions when the roster isn’t there yet

Stop making sense, just stop it, stop it now. What's wrong with you.

 

[Jeune Poulet]

The moment Therrien came on board our development cratered. He was absolute poison. Dump and chase for PK Subban.

This is some extreme revisionism. Subban was at his best under Therrien, to the point he got a Norris out of him. Name me a single coach who got more out of him.

Therrien had the guts to recognize Galchenyuk had neither the processor, nor the work ethic to be a center in the NHL. Dozens of know-it-alls kept on whining when Therrien tried him on the wing and became ecstatic when he was fired (At last! Galchenyuk will be the center we all want!) Guess what? Galchenyuk played for several other coaches who all invariably tried him at center before realizing he was complete shit at the position. And of course, none of them ever had better season out of Galchenyuk.

He got good to great seasons out of Markov, Plekanec, Gallagher and miracles with Desharnais, Emelin, Beaulieu and Paul Byron, who resurrected his career and turned into an elite specialty player under Therrien. Therrien also was there when Danault went from reclamation project to becoming a great two-way player.

There were a few misses, like Jeff Petry. But no one had gotten much from Petry before. It took Julien to get this one going.

But overall, Therrien got a lot out of a mentally fragile roster that wasn't exactly filled with natural leaders. It's not his fault if certain fans hallucinated certain qualities in players who were eventually proven to be duds.

 

[HabzSauce]

This is some extreme revisionism. Subban was at his best under Therrien, to the point he got a Norris out of him. Name me a single coach who got more out of him.

Therrien had the guts to recognize Galchenyuk had neither the processor, nor the work ethic to be a center in the NHL. Dozens of know-it-alls kept on whining when Therrien tried him on the wing and became ecstatic when he was fired (At last! Galchenyuk will be the center we all want!) Guess what? Galchenyuk played for several other coaches who all invariably tried him at center before realizing he was complete shit at the position. And of course, none of them ever had better season out of Galchenyuk.

He got good to great seasons out of Markov, Plekanec, Gallagher and miracles with Desharnais, Emelin, Beaulieu and Paul Byron, who resurrected his career and turned into an elite specialty player under Therrien. Therrien also was there when Danault went from reclamation project to becoming a great two-way player.

There were a few misses, like Jeff Petry. But no one had gotten much from Petry before. It took Julien to get this one going.

But overall, Therrien got a lot out of a mentally fragile roster that wasn't exactly filled with natural leaders. It's not his fault if certain fans hallucinated certain qualities in players who were eventually proven to be duds.

Dale Wiese too thrived under Therrien. Wiese always praising Therrien on his podcast for how he helped his game

 

[CHwest]

Or maybe you’re more concerned about the short term win/loss column than he is.

It’s pretty clear the team has long term ambitions to win the cup. Sometimes the way to get there may not coincide with the best way to win now.

Does anyone doubt for example, that we would win more games playing the trap? We probably would. But is playing that system conducive to player development? Will it help us long term? I don’t think it is.

I’m not saying MSL can’t do a better job or that the only choice is man to man or the trap - just saying that they have a plan in place that’s probably more geared towards skill development.

Lots of folks cannot look that far ahead, some cannot look past the next game. To win the cup requires foresight, patience, and a good dose of luck, see Didimov.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

This is some extreme revisionism. Subban was at his best under Therrien, to the point he got a Norris out of him. Name me a single coach who got more out of him.

Therrien had the good fortune of taking over when Price, Paccioretty and Price got into their prime. He did not develop them, Martin did.

Yes, Subban had his best years then, exactly what you’d expect as he hit his prime. That didn’t stop Therrien from putting in dump and chase in 2013-14. It killed Subban’s year and then he had the ridiculous idea of putting PK with Douglas Murray.

The man was a moron.

Therrien had the guts to recognize Galchenyuk had neither the processor, nor the work ethic to be a center in the NHL. Dozens of know-it-alls kept on whining when Therrien tried him on the wing and became ecstatic when he was fired (At last! Galchenyuk will be the center we all want!) Guess what? Galchenyuk played for several other coaches who all invariably tried him at center before realizing he was complete shit at the position. And of course, none of them ever had better season out of Galchenyuk.

Therrien was a complete dumbass with Galchenyuk. Instead of using Galchenyuk he put in - DAVID DESHARNAIS - as his first line center. Galchenyuk was a better player in every way. When used as a number one he would produce, then Therrien would inexplicably put him back down in the lineup.

Desharnais started the season at a 20 game pointless streak in the first freaking line and he STILL kept him there. 2016 was the worst roster mgmt I’ve ever seen. The team was starved for goals. The only guy who could score was Chuck. But this stubborn jackass kept him on the 3rd line until we were out of the playoffs. He finally puts in Chuck and he is a league top ten scorer the rest of the way.

It made absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Want to say Chuck was flawed? Cool. But he was better than David Desharnais. Anyone was a better choice. Plekanec, even Eller.

He got good to great seasons out of Markov, Plekanec, Gallagher and miracles with Desharnais, Emelin, Beaulieu and Paul Byron, who resurrected his career and turned into an elite specialty player under Therrien. Therrien also was there when Danault went from reclamation project to becoming a great two-way player.

Any coach would get a good season out of a healthy Markov. But look what happened when Carey Price went down. The team was bottom of the barrel.

Therrien relied so heavily on Price and without him the team couldn’t do jack squat. He was an unmitigated disaster.

There were a few misses, like Jeff Petry. But no one had gotten much from Petry before. It took Julien to get this one going.

But overall, Therrien got a lot out of a mentally fragile roster that wasn't exactly filled with natural leaders. It's not his fault if certain fans hallucinated certain qualities in players who were eventually proven to be duds.

God awful coach who benched rookies for the slightest mistake. No communication skills whatsoever. No accountability. Screamed at his players to “grind, grind, grind!” - whatever that means.

Our record was great so long as Carey Price was in the net. When he wasn’t we sunk like a stone.

Therrien was the worst thing that happened to this franchise outside of the bozo who hired him. Those two idiots came in at the absolute worst time. That club didn’t need much but between Therrien’s mismanagement and Bergevin’s bumbling they wrecked a great young core.

 

[Vachon23]

Therrien was the worst thing that happened to this franchise outside of the bozo who hired him. Those two idiots came in at the absolute worst time. That club didn’t need much but between Therrien’s mismanagement and Bergevin’s bumbling they wrecked a great young core.

Sadly, they were just no good candidates when they hired Therrien.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Sadly, they were just no good candidates when they hired Therrien.

The janitor was available.

 

[HankyZetts]

So far, before this season, Suzuki was never a lazy player. What happened ?

I've had this critique of Suzuki going back a few years now so I don't think it's new at all. I also don't necessarily think it's lazy I just think it's a bad habit that needs to be broken out of him. He needs to be less Kucherov and more Bergeron

 

[David Suzuki]

This is some extreme revisionism. Subban was at his best under Therrien, to the point he got a Norris out of him. Name me a single coach who got more out of him.

Therrien had the guts to recognize Galchenyuk had neither the processor, nor the work ethic to be a center in the NHL. Dozens of know-it-alls kept on whining when Therrien tried him on the wing and became ecstatic when he was fired (At last! Galchenyuk will be the center we all want!) Guess what? Galchenyuk played for several other coaches who all invariably tried him at center before realizing he was complete shit at the position. And of course, none of them ever had better season out of Galchenyuk.

He got good to great seasons out of Markov, Plekanec, Gallagher and miracles with Desharnais, Emelin, Beaulieu and Paul Byron, who resurrected his career and turned into an elite specialty player under Therrien. Therrien also was there when Danault went from reclamation project to becoming a great two-way player.

There were a few misses, like Jeff Petry. But no one had gotten much from Petry before. It took Julien to get this one going.

But overall, Therrien got a lot out of a mentally fragile roster that wasn't exactly filled with natural leaders. It's not his fault if certain fans hallucinated certain qualities in players who were eventually proven to be duds.

I didn't expect Michel to be able to type this well in English.

 

[Habs Halifax]

NO, this is not the problem. The problem is searching for reasons why we are not in the playoffs or charging up the standings and coming to a conclusion that it's our coaching.

It's a young roster with vets mixed in that are not really that good. I think we finish with more than 76 pts and it will be an improvement but to some fans, they wanted more. Stay patient

 

[Jeune Poulet]

I didn't expect Michel to be able to type this well in English.

Yeah, we get it. He didn't communicate in English well enough for the xenophobic segment of the fanbase.

I am pointing out that the misuse of players he is constantly accused of is factually wrong.

If someone accuses this coach of completely misusing Galchenyuk and Subban and holding them back, you don't need to be Therrien himself to point out this is factually wrong. You just need to live in reality.

I'm still waiting to hear which coach got more out of Subban or Galchenyuk than Therrien did, I am not saying he was without faults, BTW. But a lot of the criticism directed at him seems fueled by ignorance, a bizarre mob effect and a pinch of xenophobia.