Coach Discussion: Warsofsky

[Hodge]

Warso is keeping the seat warm for Mike Sullivan.

 

[Celly4Celebrini]

I wouldn't trust any coach who wouldn't take an opportunity to be one of the 32 head coaches in the NHL now because they think they're gonna have a potential all-star team 4 years down the road.

if its Carle i would. Has a dream job atm that he shouldnt leave unless its for the perfect NHL scenario.

 

[TheBeard]

if its Carle i would. Has a dream job atm that he shouldnt leave unless its for the perfect NHL scenario.

That's different. The tweet said "if you're a sought after coach that's currently unemployed...." or something like that

 

[DarrylshutzSydor]

Warso is keeping the seat warm for Mike Sullivan.

No Thanks, but trade for John Cooper........

 

[karltonian]

What's the deal with refs talking to the coaching staff about complaints. Every coaching staff complains, why are they being singled out?

 

[coooldude]

What's the deal with refs talking to the coaching staff about complaints. Every coaching staff complains, why are they being singled out?

I think that's the "respect in the NHL" thing. Celebrini is a rookie, Warsofsky is a rookie, they haven't "earned the right" to be disrespectful to the refs yet.

 

[HockeyScout1425]

Is he under orders to massage the team to as many losses as possible?

How many periods after attaining a lead is he going to start w/ the Kunin/Badrow line and watch the momentum completely evaporate and establish them getting hemmed in(if not scored on the 1st shift, like that hilarious predators game. 18 seconds in.)

Henry Thrun top pair minutes? On his off hand?

And then there's been no penalty kill personnel changes? Luke Kunin is still the first forward on, w/ Goodrow? Probably the two WORST defensive forwards on the team? Goodrow used to be a championship caliber defensive forward and particularly effective shorthanded. That day is long gone. Kunin has no first step, plays w/ zero anticipation, and constantly puck watches. I cant even think of a forward I would want on the penalty kill LESS than Luke Kunin, yet they keep sending him out there to embarrass the franchise?

And also, the whole "Belichick" vibe doesnt really fly when you coached the worst unit on the team last year, and then somehow parlayed that "job" into becoming the Head Coach this year. In an almost impossible fashion, the team has like the same points % at the same point in the season as last years team. Yet he has Walman, Celebrini, Smith, Toffoli, Wennberg, and improved Eklund, and most importantly, no Mike Hoffman or Nikita Ohotiuk, Again, how is that even possible? Is he acting Belichick-ian in answers because he doesn't know too much hockey? Say what you will about Quinn, but just a couple cursory glances at interviews and you could gather Quinn was a hockey lifer w/ a lot of knowledge about the team, sport, tactics. This fat angry meathead has not said anything about actual on-ice play in his answers, other than the usual bullshit platitudes, and a couple references to "puck play".

What the hell is going on here?

 

[HockeyScout1425]

I wouldn't dump Thrun because he's at least a solid depth defenseman that is still developing. He won't get in anyone's way that shows real promise and he can fill the extra man role if it comes to that. The real question is whether or not Grier thinks he can bring in upgrades on Ferraro and Walman and if they have positive value on their own. I would definitely be talking to guys that are expiring like Gavrikov, Pettersson in Pittsburgh, and Orlov to see what it would take to get them here.

Except he already is. He's absolutely god awful and Mukhamudullin is somehow up/down and in and out of the lineup when he is here. Not only that, but as soon as there's an injury, or a Ceci trade, this jackass sends Thrun straight to the top pair. Pure comedy.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Is he under orders to massage the team to as many losses as possible?

How many periods after attaining a lead is he going to start w/ the Kunin/Badrow line and watch the momentum completely evaporate and establish them getting hemmed in(if not scored on the 1st shift, like that hilarious predators game. 18 seconds in.)

Henry Thrun top pair minutes? On his off hand?

And then there's been no penalty kill personnel changes? Luke Kunin is still the first forward on, w/ Goodrow? Probably the two WORST defensive forwards on the team? Goodrow used to be a championship caliber defensive forward and particularly effective shorthanded. That day is long gone. Kunin has no first step, plays w/ zero anticipation, and constantly puck watches. I cant even think of a forward I would want on the penalty kill LESS than Luke Kunin, yet they keep sending him out there to embarrass the franchise?

And also, the whole "Belichick" vibe doesnt really fly when you coached the worst unit on the team last year, and then somehow parlayed that "job" into becoming the Head Coach this year. In an almost impossible fashion, the team has like the same points % at the same point in the season as last years team. Yet he has Walman, Celebrini, Smith, Toffoli, Wennberg, and improved Eklund, and most importantly, no Mike Hoffman or Nikita Ohotiuk, Again, how is that even possible? Is he acting Belichick-ian in answers because he doesn't know too much hockey? Say what you will about Quinn, but just a couple cursory glances at interviews and you could gather Quinn was a hockey lifer w/ a lot of knowledge about the team, sport, tactics. This fat angry meathead has not said anything about actual on-ice play in his answers, other than the usual bullshit platitudes, and a couple references to "puck play".

What the hell is going on here?

The answer is no, he's not under any orders to massage the team to as many losses as possible. They're a bad team still that got worse trading two players that played the most minutes on the team. I mean, the fact that Kunin and Goodrow are regulars in the lineup should speak to the team's depth even with Kunin having a decent year by his standards. Thrun playing there is out of necessity. Rutta is injured, Ceci is traded, and who else is really left to play there with Walman and likely get caved in? It's either him doing that or moving up Liljegren or Thompson and having Thrun or Mukhamadullin play their off-side at a depth level. It doesn't really matter much as it's going to see enough time to get exploited. As for the PK, Graf saw the 2nd most PK time behind Goodrow.

I'm not exactly sure what you were expecting here but Warsofsky has done fine with what he has and the points percentage isn't what matters. The team wants to see certain players develop and that has been happening. A team like this one still wants high draft picks while they're developing a new core. The Sharks were at best a two line team with one top four caliber defenseman, and a solid starter when Blackwood or Askarov are here. Neither are at this point. The team is pretty well set up to have an offseason where they can make a few splashes that can bump the team's ability to compete up significantly. Getting all pissy and calling a rookie coach a fat angry meathead as if his attitude behind the bench is somehow different than practically every other hockey coach in existence is pretty sad.

Show some patience and it'll turn around.

 

[Hodge]

Is he under orders to massage the team to as many losses as possible?

How many periods after attaining a lead is he going to start w/ the Kunin/Badrow line and watch the momentum completely evaporate and establish them getting hemmed in(if not scored on the 1st shift, like that hilarious predators game. 18 seconds in.)

Henry Thrun top pair minutes? On his off hand?

And then there's been no penalty kill personnel changes? Luke Kunin is still the first forward on, w/ Goodrow? Probably the two WORST defensive forwards on the team? Goodrow used to be a championship caliber defensive forward and particularly effective shorthanded. That day is long gone. Kunin has no first step, plays w/ zero anticipation, and constantly puck watches. I cant even think of a forward I would want on the penalty kill LESS than Luke Kunin, yet they keep sending him out there to embarrass the franchise?

And also, the whole "Belichick" vibe doesnt really fly when you coached the worst unit on the team last year, and then somehow parlayed that "job" into becoming the Head Coach this year. In an almost impossible fashion, the team has like the same points % at the same point in the season as last years team. Yet he has Walman, Celebrini, Smith, Toffoli, Wennberg, and improved Eklund, and most importantly, no Mike Hoffman or Nikita Ohotiuk, Again, how is that even possible? Is he acting Belichick-ian in answers because he doesn't know too much hockey? Say what you will about Quinn, but just a couple cursory glances at interviews and you could gather Quinn was a hockey lifer w/ a lot of knowledge about the team, sport, tactics. This fat angry meathead has not said anything about actual on-ice play in his answers, other than the usual bullshit platitudes, and a couple references to "puck play".

What the hell is going on here?

Our goal differential is +30 better than the same point last year despite worse goaltending. We've lost a lot of close games which is not really Warso's fault.

As for top pair Thrun and the PK personnel, who else is he supposed to use in those situations? Our best RHD remaining is Liljegren who sucks almost as much as Thrun so he might as well give the younger player a shot in high-leverage minutes to see how he responds. It's probably not going to last very long. Granlund was our most used penalty killer and Wennberg is injured so of course Kunin and Goodrow are first over the boards.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Except he already is. He's absolutely god awful and Mukhamudullin is somehow up/down and in and out of the lineup when he is here. Not only that, but as soon as there's an injury, or a Ceci trade, this jackass sends Thrun straight to the top pair. Pure comedy.

Mukhamadullin's status has no bearing on where Thrun is in a lineup on any given night. Who exactly were you expecting to replace Ceci on the top pair? Your options were any of Ferraro, Thrun, Liljegren, Thompson, and Vlasic. None of those choices are anywhere close to ideal to play as Walman's partner. Why are you being so insulting here? It's childish.

 

[HockeyScout1425]

Our goal differential is +30 better than the same point last year despite worse goaltending. We've lost a lot of close games which is not really Warso's fault.

As for top pair Thrun and the PK personnel, who else is he supposed to use in those situations? Our best RHD remaining is Liljegren who sucks almost as much as Thrun so he might as well give the younger player a shot in high-leverage minutes to see how he responds. It's probably not going to last very long. Granlund was our most used penalty killer and Wennberg is injured so of course Kunin and Goodrow are first over the boards.

Except some of those close games are his fault. He deliberately started the 3rd period of that game in Nashville w/ the Kunin line against Nashville's top line, after they had been thoroughly outplayed in the latter part of that 2nd period. They needed to set the tone and push back against the Nashville push. Instead, he sends out Kunin and Badrow to get hilariously caved and it's 5-4 in 18 seconds. I knew right then and there that they would lose, as did everyone else in the building and watching. Comical stuff.

I don't think Liljegren sucks, I think he's been disappointing. He isn't great in his own end but his analytics were great in Toronto. Ferraro has sunk every single one of his partners the past few years, and Liljegren at times has looked pretty good in the O zone keeping possession alive and feeding shots and wristers towards strategic areas. I'm not totally out on him, and I'd like to see him without Ferraro. And even w/ all the disappointing play from him, it's still not even remotely close to how tragic Thrun is.

Who else is he supposed to use on the PK? Like I said....anyone? Even considering Wennberg's injury, Kunin is still averaging 1:42 a night shorthanded, Badrow at 1:43, while Wennberg is at 1:11. I......I don't even know how that is possible. It sort of ties into my first paragraph. Either he is subtly pushing some buttons that he knows massages us to less chance of winning, or he stupidly and unbelievably believes Luke Kunin is some gritty grinder who somehow turns his gritty grinderness into effective defensive play. Except Luke Kunin should be in the AHL teaching young guys how to finish a check. Because that is the only thing in his defensive game that is NHL caliber. Ty Dellandrea absolutely sucks at MOST things, especially handling the puck, but he's actually a guy I could see maybe using more often on the PK, as he's much quicker than Kunin, he's just as "grindy" in the board play, and I think he sort of has a self awareness that he's hanging onto dear life in the NHL, so puck watching and looking like a dope as your man drifts right behind you for a Grade A in the crease wouldnt really be of regular occurrence. Eklund obviously is much more effective on the PK than AHL fatboy Kunin. And then anyone else, maybe besides Kostin, I don't know if they would be any good on the PK, but it wouldn't hurt to try.

 

[HockeyScout1425]

Mukhamadullin's status has no bearing on where Thrun is in a lineup on any given night.

Well that's sort of the problem. Thrun has been hot garbage for 105 NHL games and gets rewarded for it. Mukhamudullin, while raw, actually flashes his rare toolkit and upside everytime I see him up here, and cant establish himself in the lineup.

So the way I see it. Since they are in love w/ the veteran trash too much(Ferraro, Ruuta, Vlasic) that Thrun is in active competition w/ Mukhamudullin. Mukhamuddlin has more talent in his pinky than Thrun does, but I guess they need "steady Henry" so they can win all these games.

so again, you said that Thrun will not "get in anyone's way that shows promise", except he is ahead of Mukhamudullin on the depth chart.

 

[Jargon]

Lots of hyperbole here. It’s like you guys want Warsofsky to finish a Rubik’s cube but he’s missing all the blues and reds and you’re like JUST MAKE THE YELLOW RED YOU f***ING IDIOT

the fact is, we have a terrible defense and like 3-4 top 6 guys, but it’s the defense that’s the reason we’re this bad. You can put out Kunin and Goodrow or Celebrini and Toffoli, if your defense can’t move the puck, can’t recover the puck, misses coverages, and can’t get the puck out even if they have it, you can send out prime Wayne Gretzky and it won’t matter. If the Sharks literally had like one top 2 defenseman I bet we’d have won at least half the games we gave up in the third period.

Not that I don’t think Wars has made any mistakes I just think they ultimately don’t super matter, actually, because until we get a defense that’s worth a damn, we’re going to be very bad.

I’m positive Grier is working on that, and if he is and manages to rebuild our sad backend, then let’s see what Warsofsky can do. But it’s all about that defense, man. I’d keep Muhk and Walman and replace everyone else.

 

[Zarzh]

Is he under orders to massage the team to as many losses as possible?

How many periods after attaining a lead is he going to start w/ the Kunin/Badrow line and watch the momentum completely evaporate and establish them getting hemmed in(if not scored on the 1st shift, like that hilarious predators game. 18 seconds in.)

Henry Thrun top pair minutes? On his off hand?

And then there's been no penalty kill personnel changes? Luke Kunin is still the first forward on, w/ Goodrow? Probably the two WORST defensive forwards on the team? Goodrow used to be a championship caliber defensive forward and particularly effective shorthanded. That day is long gone. Kunin has no first step, plays w/ zero anticipation, and constantly puck watches. I cant even think of a forward I would want on the penalty kill LESS than Luke Kunin, yet they keep sending him out there to embarrass the franchise?

And also, the whole "Belichick" vibe doesnt really fly when you coached the worst unit on the team last year, and then somehow parlayed that "job" into becoming the Head Coach this year. In an almost impossible fashion, the team has like the same points % at the same point in the season as last years team. Yet he has Walman, Celebrini, Smith, Toffoli, Wennberg, and improved Eklund, and most importantly, no Mike Hoffman or Nikita Ohotiuk, Again, how is that even possible? Is he acting Belichick-ian in answers because he doesn't know too much hockey? Say what you will about Quinn, but just a couple cursory glances at interviews and you could gather Quinn was a hockey lifer w/ a lot of knowledge about the team, sport, tactics. This fat angry meathead has not said anything about actual on-ice play in his answers, other than the usual bullshit platitudes, and a couple references to "puck play".

What the hell is going on here?

I think he's just kind of a dinosaur but I'd hope he's trying to help the tank, his treatment of Poturalski will be a good litmus test for how much of one he is. Doesn't seem to value possession at all.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Well that's sort of the problem. Thrun has been hot garbage for 105 NHL games and gets rewarded for it. Mukhamudullin, while raw, actually flashes his rare toolkit and upside everytime I see him up here, and cant establish himself in the lineup.

So the way I see it. Since they are in love w/ the veteran trash too much(Ferraro, Ruuta, Vlasic) that Thrun is in active competition w/ Mukhamudullin. Mukhamuddlin has more talent in his pinky than Thrun does, but I guess they need "steady Henry" so they can win all these games.

so again, you said that Thrun will not "get in anyone's way that shows promise", except he is ahead of Mukhamudullin on the depth chart.

That's sort of on Mukhamadullin. Not Thrun or anyone else. Shakir has had a rough season because of the injury that sidelined him to start the season. It took him a while to get going and he hasn't done much to impact the game in a way that makes it indisputable to keep him in. Thrun isn't in Mukhamadullin's way. Shakir is in his own way on this front and a lot of it isn't under his control. Chances are that one of Walman and Ferraro (guys who are more legitimately in his way) will get dealt this offseason with the intent of having Mukhamadullin in the lineup regularly but for now, he's filling in vacant spots until they return and will likely get sent back down to help the Barracuda for their playoff run.

Either way, you don't need to be insulting to make this sort of point. There's just no need for it here.

 

[gaucholoco3]

I think the coach isn’t the problem it is the expectations that some fans had going into the season. If you expected this team to be a fringe playoff team then it is understandable to be disappointed however I would guess that those fans are not very tuned into the NHL as a whole since no objective observer thought the Sharks would be anything better than bottom 3-5 in the league.

I come away watching these games thinking this season has been a smashing success. Against Montreal Celebrini and Smith were the Sharks best forwards by far as the clear top 2 lines getting the hard matchups and still creating plenty of offense. Both players have grown and developed significantly this season which in my opinion was priority number one and two going into the season. Askarov has shown he is legitimately the best goalie prospect in the league. Grier was able to get at least a 1st round pick for rentals and is not done. The most important prospects are having great seasons. With all that development the Sharks are also still in position to add a core piece to the rebuild with a virtually guaranteed top 4 pick in the draft.

This season has been a success it’s just a matter of setting realistic expectations for the team.

I say all this as a person who believes that last season was the absolute most successful season in franchise history since the were able to secure the 1C that will lead them to multiple cups.

 

[TheBeard]

This season has been a success it’s just a matter of setting realistic expectations for the team.

Like last year, this season can only be a success if the team ends up with first overall.

Finishing last a season after finishing last by ending up with a worse draft pick would suck.

In terms of on-ice success, this should be the team's last season being this bad. That, of course is on the shoulders of Grier. If he once again wants to ice a horrific team then he can. If he legit wants to start making moves to improve the team's standing he can do that too.

 

[hockeyball]

He kind of has to start making moves next season. You really don't want to be a 1st overall team more than twice because it starts to eat into your best players contracts. Celebrini goes UFA in what, 2031? Every year that goes by that we are not competing that timer is running down. Say we draft Shaefer next, same thing... you will never win the cup if you don't have some great players on great deals and 1st overall picks are obviously a rare commodity you cannot waste. To a lesser extent the same deal with guys like Eklund and even more so for the guys that are spending years in the lower leagues before they even get to the NHL.

Are we going to be a cup contender next year? No, of course not, but we NEED to be making a push to make the playoffs starting next year or we are going to miss our window and end up a yo-yo team. Some teams can get great players through the UFA market on good deals because they are desirable places to play. We are not that, and won't be that until we win a cup. The Sharks are going to have to, ready or not, get off the pot next season or 2027 at the very latest or this rebuild will have failed.

 

[Jargon]

I agree with the previous two posts and I suspect Grier does too. Mack and Smith and Askarov deserve better next year. Again, I think revamping the defense entirely will go a LONG way. Throwing some money at some forwards (work your magic on Marner, Joe!) would help too. But it all starts from defense.

??? - ???
Walman - ???
Muhk - Liljegren

…start there and do what you can to fill the question marks (even though I know Thrun is likely staying next year).

 

[TheBeard]

I agree with the previous two posts and I suspect Grier does too. Mack and Smith and Askarov deserve better next year. Again, I think revamping the defense entirely will go a LONG way. Throwing some money at some forwards (work your magic on Marner, Joe!) would help too. But it all starts from defense.

??? - ???
Walman - ???
Muhk - Liljegren

…start there and do what you can to fill the question marks (even though I know Thrun is likely staying next year).

Only three teams in NHL history have ever drafted first overall 3 years running. Quebec in the late 80s, who ended up moving 5 years later, and Edmonton, who only still has RNH to show for them. I’d rather not be the third.

 

[Cas]

We are way, way too far away to even think about competing for the playoffs next year. We will hopefully be very much improved, but I think expecting more than 75 points is a pipe dream. 2027 is the goal, and that's much faster than I was anticipating at this time last year (I was expecting no earlier than 2029).

 

[coooldude]

Only three teams in NHL history have ever drafted first overall 3 years running. Quebec in the late 80s, who ended up moving 5 years later, and Edmonton, who only still has RNH to show for them. I’d rather not be the third.

But PIT drafted top 2 4 years running. And Quebec became the COL dynasty, so...

We are way, way too far away to even think about competing for the playoffs next year. We will hopefully be very much improved, but I think expecting more than 75 points is a pipe dream. 2027 is the goal, and that's much faster than I was anticipating at this time last year (I was expecting no earlier than 2029).

Agreed.

Next year is not a "push for playoffs" year. It's a "push to be a bottom 5 team, bottom 7 draft pick" year. We are too far off to be anywhere near the playoffs. Nashville is a great cautionary tale of trying to throw a bunch of big fish FA's together to make a competitive team.

Grier is gonna have to COOK this summer to get us to bottom 5-7 team. That's how bad we were/are.

2027, we have a shot to be a fringe playoff team that doesn't make it and still drafts 12-16. That would be an excellent progression.

 

[jarr92]

If the Sharks are doing a quarter-century ranking of coaches, where does Warsofsky go (so far)?

 

[coooldude]

View attachment 973474
If the Sharks are doing a quarter-century ranking of coaches, where does Warsofsky go (so far)?

Personally:

1. DeBoer - he got us the furthest
2. Wilson - the numbers are there, although honestly he might have just been a seat warmer, hard to say...
3. Sutter - made a lot with a little and helmed some of our best upsets... debated him at 2. People may have hated his defense-first boring style but we won games we shouldn't and he's hilariously dry
4. Koala - most games and wins, but also the worst failures, and torpedoed his relationship with Jumbo so whatevs
5. Warsofsky, because I think he's a better coach than the other two despite his record so far
6. Quinn. Did his best with a terrible squad, got us a Karlsson trade, maybe not a good head coach of pros, might be a good assistant coach, who knows
7. Boughner. Dark times.