Coach Discussion: Warsofsky

[Star Platinum]

Since there's been a lot of talk lately about our coach, I figured it was time he had his own thread.

I'm particularly interested to hear from those who think he's doing a good job to explain what they see that they like. And don't just give the throwaway line of "The goal differential is much better." That can be and probably should be explained by the roster being a lot better than last year (even if it still stinks relative to the rest of the league).

Tell me what you see that gives you confidence. Or if you don't, say what you don't like.

Click to read more...

 

[OrrNumber4]

It's a difficult question. His job is not to win today, but to help build a team that will win a couple of years down the road. How do you evaluate that, especially as a fan from afar?

I will say that aside from Celebrini and Smith, I'm extremely disappointed with how San Jose's pro prospects have looked. Maybe I overestimated their talent, but hasn't everyone taken a step back this season? Perhaps this is an orthogonal, GM/scouting talent-evaluation issue. But insofar as it is an issue of development, Warsofsky is the head coach and bears some responsibility.

Drafting and development is the key to winning. Championship-caliber teams find elite, if not franchise-caliber talent outside of lottery picks. We already know that Mike Grier completely missed one guy...

 

[vortexy]

I think Warso started the 4th line for all 3 periods tonight and I don't really understand it? We had home ice so we have last change and I would understand if Nashville opens with their 4th line, but at the beginning of the second period, after having momentum from the last 2 goals in the first period, we start the 4th line against Nashvilles 1st line and of course get burned by it and give up an early goal as the 4th line gets stuck in the Dzone for almost 2 minutes. I feel like you are just gifting Nashville this mismatch.

 

[mogambomoroo]

I'm not going to defend or attack Warsofsky at this point, I will give him another year before some real judging. I think he is trying things out as an first time NHL coach and I admit some of the things don't work at all. The line blender is one I don't really like, but it's a developmental year. Next year should be a lot different.
I think Goodrow is mostly on MG, it would make sense to bench him once in a while but that 3.6 mil seems to have a weight in the decision making, I see no other reason.

 

[one2gamble]

other than some questionable line up choices I dont think there is much to say. The teams defense is mostly terrible and other than about 4 or 5 forwards, the rest of the team is barely a replacement level 4th liner.

Goodrow shouldnt be on the ice anywhere near as much as he is but nobody knows why he was even grabbed.

 

[Skeksis25]

It's a difficult question. His job is not to win today, but to help build a team that will win a couple of years down the road. How do you evaluate that, especially as a fan from afar?

I will say that aside from Celebrini and Smith, I'm extremely disappointed with how San Jose's pro prospects have looked. Maybe I overestimated their talent, but hasn't everyone taken a step back this season? Perhaps this is an orthogonal, GM/scouting talent-evaluation issue. But insofar as it is an issue of development, Warsofsky is the head coach and bears some responsibility.

Drafting and development is the key to winning. Championship-caliber teams find elite, if not franchise-caliber talent outside of lottery picks. We already know that Mike Grier completely missed one guy...

Eklund is on pace for a 60+ point season after putting up 45 last year. His +/- is dramatically better too. Are you really disappointed in his progress? Zetterlund is doing about the same as last year, but this is probably his ceiling anyway. 25g, 45-50 points a year. I don't really know who else should have taken a big leap and has failed really. Thrun maybe?

Edit: Also Walman was never this good in Detroit. Should credit his jump to Warsofsky, no?

 

[Timo Time]

I think Warso started the 4th line for all 3 periods tonight and I don't really understand it? We had home ice so we have last change and I would understand if Nashville opens with their 4th line, but at the beginning of the second period, after having momentum from the last 2 goals in the first period, we start the 4th line against Nashvilles 1st line and of course get burned by it and give up an early goal as the 4th line gets stuck in the Dzone for almost 2 minutes. I feel like you are just gifting Nashville this mismatch.

Exactly what I was going to post last night. In my opinion it is his biggest flaw. It just invites getting hemmed in constantly. There's a reason each period started the same exact way. It drives me insane that this is a strategy.

 

[stator]

There's not enough data points for me to say much about the long term prospect of War being the Sharks HC.

Are the Sharks inadvertently training War to be a good HC of another team? That's what they seem to do with goalies.

I think the open questions are is War capable of coaching a playoff team into champions, and cant GMMG build a championship team? We know GMMG is exceptional at the front-end of rebuilding an aging team with bad contracts.

Right now, the Sharks mgmt strategy seems to be collecting as many high draft picks as possible. That's good but also worrisome. Just look at the Oilers with all those 1st round picks years ago, and how long it took them to make good runs in the playoffs.

 

[weastern bias]

It's really hard to make a comprehensive evaluation of Wario's work after 50 games given the situation

The youngest coach in the league, a rookie, inherited the worst roster in the league coming off a historic tanking season, he has no top pairing D, no established starting caliber goalie, his best player is a child, and the only real veteran additions have been overpaid secondary role players

I don't think we know a ton about how good this coach is, all we really know is that dude LOVES the line blender

 

[Sharksfan66]

Warso's job is not to win this year, it's to develop our kids and build the kind of team culture that will be capable of winning when the kids are ready. It seems impossible from our perspective to judge at how he's doing at the latter and it's probably harder to judge the former than we think.

I'm content to give him another year or two before I pass judgment on the guy.

Who knows, maybe his strange decisions like starting the 4th line every period last night are designed to teach the kids you have to play the game the "right way" and can't always be looking for the perfect pass? I'm going to assume there's a method to his madness until it's proved that that's not the case. And IMO it's way too early to say that.

 

[Cas]

Right now, the Sharks mgmt strategy seems to be collecting as many high draft picks as possible. That's good but also worrisome. Just look at the Oilers with all those 1st round picks years ago, and how long it took them to make good runs in the playoffs.

The Oilers problem was not that they were bad for too long and kept drafting high as a result, it's that they drafted Yapukov and Puljujarvi, and that one of their #1's had nobody really better than Taylor Hall to pick, and they had no idea how to actually build a quality team anyway.

I don't think we're drafting like that, though the 2022 draft may have been an error; Eklund looks like a hit, Celebrini is a hit, Smith should be a hit, and hopefully Dickinson as well. Hopefully we get a hit in the summer too. The teambuilding remains to be seen.

The problem is not being bad for a long time - the problem is that, sometimes, you're bad because your management is incompetent (or maybe very unlucky), and othertimes, you're bad because you're building from the ground up and that takes a long time.

 

[karltonian]

I think Warso started the 4th line for all 3 periods tonight and I don't really understand it? We had home ice so we have last change and I would understand if Nashville opens with their 4th line, but at the beginning of the second period, after having momentum from the last 2 goals in the first period, we start the 4th line against Nashvilles 1st line and of course get burned by it and give up an early goal as the 4th line gets stuck in the Dzone for almost 2 minutes. I feel like you are just gifting Nashville this mismatch.

This, I hate this so much.

 

[karltonian]

Who knows, maybe his strange decisions like starting the 4th line every period last night are designed to teach the kids you have to play the game the "right way" and can't always be looking for the perfect pass? I'm going to assume there's a method to his madness until it's proved that that's not the case. And IMO it's way too early to say that.

Does that work though? When the 4th line just gets hammered and gives up goals?

 

[ChompChomp]

It's really hard to make a comprehensive evaluation of Wario's work after 50 games given the situation

The youngest coach in the league, a rookie, inherited the worst roster in the league coming off a historic tanking season, he has no top pairing D, no established starting caliber goalie, his best player is a child, and the only real veteran additions have been overpaid secondary role players

I don't think we know a ton about how good this coach is, all we really know is that dude LOVES the line blender

Stop making too much sense. Just let that half dozen or so people make up more derogatory nicknames for Warso. Nevermind that Scotty Bowman couldn't do better with this lineup, especially the defensive unit.

 

[BaileyMacTavish]

Wario is fine? There is a system in place and we're almost always in it. Starting the 4th line and then watch them get killed in possession to concede a goal is not it though

 

[ChompChomp]

Here's the thing. Warso had this team playing well in the end of November. Perhaps too well for Grier, so he shipped out Blackwood. Yes there are bigger reasons for that trade and its timing (Avs desperation), but considering as it is the Sharks have tire fire defense, shipping out your #1 goalie in Nov/Dec instead of the trade deadline was a blow in terms of Warso trying to squeak out wins. (And let's point out, when the Sharks were on a little run before dealing Blackwood, nobody was criticizing Warso. But when they lose, out comes the nicknames. lol smh)

Let's also note that if Warso was all about a permanent 1-3-1 trap system and eeked out enough wins to be out of the race for #1 overall pick, heads would roll. So literally Warso gets the short end of the stick no matter how things play out.

Bottom line though: At the beginning of the year, Warso said his goal was make the Sharks a "difficult" team to play against. He wanted opponents to leave every game with the Sharks thinking, "man that was a battle." Go back and listen to those interviews when he was hired and when the season started. And he's succeeded. They aren't winning because of the tire fire defense and Georgiev, but they are battling and achieve the exact goal Warso set.

Sad bottom line: Not sure what Warso's contract is. I asked when he was hired, and nobody (including Peng) would say or knows. I assume 3 seasons. I think he's going to lead this team to year over year point improvements (including this year), and when his contract is up (which I think 3 seasons, so at end of 26-27), I bet Grier replaces him with the best veteran HC available in the 27 offseason. And I think a 27-28 contending squad that needs an HC will see what Warso did in SJ over 3 seasons and hire him to be their HC, and then we'll really get to see how Warso does with a team that has playoff expectations.

The only way we'll (likely) see what Warso can do with a contending Sharks team is if Grier speeds up the rebuild timeline, and Grier has shown zero indications of that.

 

[Sharksfan66]

Does that work though? When the 4th line just gets hammered and gives up goals?

I dunno. **IF** it teaches Celebrini, Smith, & co to "play the right way," that seems like it will be worth it in the long run.

And not that I'm hoping for losses like I was last year, but if costs us a few extra games in the short term, all that really does it put us one step closer to Schaefer...

 

[Internazionale]

All about developing and getting the most from the vets and younger players. I think he's doing a good job.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Eklund is on pace for a 60+ point season after putting up 45 last year. His +/- is dramatically better too. Are you really disappointed in his progress? Zetterlund is doing about the same as last year, but this is probably his ceiling anyway. 25g, 45-50 points a year. I don't really know who else should have taken a big leap and has failed really. Thrun maybe?

Edit: Also Walman was never this good in Detroit. Should credit his jump to Warsofsky, no?

I overlooked Eklund! He's a solid counter-example.

But outside of him, look at the other pro prospects (Thompson, Thrun, Dellandrea, Cardwell, Bystedt, Cagnoni, Mukhamadullin, Graf). Maybe only Graf has improved as the season has gone on...

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I overlooked Eklund! He's a solid counter-example.

But outside of him, look at the other pro prospects (Thompson, Thrun, Dellandrea, Cardwell, Bystedt, Cagnoni, Mukhamadullin, Graf). Maybe only Graf has improved as the season has gone on...

I think Blackwood is also a counterexample prior to the trade. I'm not sure what people are expecting here. We are one of the least talented teams with a rookie head coach and a couple rookies being focused on as the priorities for our franchise. They all need experience and this is the season that is going to provide a good bit of it. When it comes to the other pro prospects, there was always going to be a lot more failures than successes. That's part of figuring it out. We're not just developing players. We're developing a coach that has won championships at all levels he's coached at.

 

[Star Platinum]

It's a difficult question. His job is not to win today, but to help build a team that will win a couple of years down the road. How do you evaluate that, especially as a fan from afar?

I will say that aside from Celebrini and Smith, I'm extremely disappointed with how San Jose's pro prospects have looked. Maybe I overestimated their talent, but hasn't everyone taken a step back this season? Perhaps this is an orthogonal, GM/scouting talent-evaluation issue. But insofar as it is an issue of development, Warsofsky is the head coach and bears some responsibility.

Drafting and development is the key to winning. Championship-caliber teams find elite, if not franchise-caliber talent outside of lottery picks. We already know that Mike Grier completely missed one guy...

I guess I don't know who those guys are. Eklund is 8 points away from matching his scoring totals last year. Zetterlund is 13 points away. The other guys I can think of are old enough to just be what they are at this point or so young that they're just getting their feet wet in the league.

I think Warso started the 4th line for all 3 periods tonight and I don't really understand it? We had home ice so we have last change and I would understand if Nashville opens with their 4th line, but at the beginning of the second period, after having momentum from the last 2 goals in the first period, we start the 4th line against Nashvilles 1st line and of course get burned by it and give up an early goal as the 4th line gets stuck in the Dzone for almost 2 minutes. I feel like you are just gifting Nashville this mismatch.

My opinion of our fourth line is that they should only be played in very short stints to rest the other three lines. They don't do enough defensively to justify using them any more than that.

My attitude about bottom 6 lines is ideally they should excel at something other than scoring if they aren't good at scoring. Maybe you have a really fast line that pressures the puck well. Maybe you have a brute squad that hits the other line a lot and makes them miserable. Our guys are really just bad NHL players.

 

[Star Platinum]

NHL Head Coaches are, by and large, vastly overrated, especially when correlating the success and failure of the team to coaching prowess. Todd McLellan is the epitome of this.

I agree with the above, and yet, Detroit got immediately better after hiring McLellan. They are 9-4-1 since he took over. I don't think this means McLellan is a better coach than we thought, it's that Lalonde was terrible.

 

[YUPPY 2 7 10 11]

Warso's job is not to win this year, it's to develop our kids and build the kind of team culture that will be capable of winning when the kids are ready. It seems impossible from our perspective to judge at how he's doing at the latter and it's probably harder to judge the former than we think.

I'm content to give him another year or two before I pass judgment on the guy.

Who knows, maybe his strange decisions like starting the 4th line every period last night are designed to teach the kids you have to play the game the "right way" and can't always be looking for the perfect pass? I'm going to assume there's a method to his madness until it's proved that that's not the case. And IMO it's way too early to say that.

This team biggest problem are Passing, Defense, and Goaltending. A really good coach will correct all that.
Daryl Sutter team is boring as hell but they all know how to play defense because he drilled into them and grind it out until they get a goal. Always defense 1st.
Ron Wilson's coaching style focuses on helping the entire team, rather than just individual players. He will call you out of you are a selfish player.
Warso' team is all offense and speed. Defense is an afterthought kinda like last year' team with Quinn. Very minimal hitting. Yesterday fights were abnormal for this team. They are soft. Not what Grier wants.
Because of Celebrini, Askarov and Smith attendance is up otherwise it's the SOS "same old sh1t"