Post-Game Talk: Close but no cigar, Jets lose in SO 4-3

[Mortimer Snerd]

A point is a point... especially when you almost didn’t come close to it...

The jets defence is one of the slowest and immobile I have ever seen on a NHL team.

Ehlers has some of the best hands on the team... and that’s the shootout attempt he makes? No wonder He appears to be dog housed half the time.

Ehlers has never been any good at SO/breakaways. Not that that is an excuse. With the talent he has, he should be good at those. But he is not. Doubt we see him in the SO again for quite a while.

 

[DannyGallivan]

See my post #198.

Washington has Wilson, Gudas, Dillon and Orlov. They can all play hockey. None of them is a designated fighter. Do you think any of those guys would play any differently if we still had Thorburn to challenge them? If you want to meet a big, mean, dirty team with an equally big, mean, dirty team that is another story altogether. It is still not affected by having a designated enforcer.

Reaves would fit in nicely (see my post discussing this). He is already better at hockey than any of our fourth liners, and his offense isn't that far off from Lowry (this year, I believe it's better). Of course, we would have to pry him off out of Vegas first.

But beyond that, I'm not advocating a line of Mike Pelusos. I am saying, however, that it's foolhardy to get smaller and weaker cuz ya ain't gonna last when you make it to the dance. We are looking at a possibly blueline of Morrissey, Pionk, Niku and Heinola. You might as well paint their faces blue and tell them scary stories about Gargamel. The only forwards that can even pass for "tough" (as in standing up for themselves or their teammates) is Lowry. I mean, do you want Laine, Scheifele or Wheeler dropping the mits (and don't mention Ehler because I'm trying to be serious).

There's no way Orlov would have gone headhunting if we still had the line-up we've had in year's past, and that's not including the Thorburns or Pelusos.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

Ehlers has never been any good at SO/breakaways. Not that that is an excuse. With the talent he has, he should be good at those. But he is not. Doubt we see him in the SO again for quite a while.

Sorted by career shootout shot attempts since 2015-2016, Ehlers first NHL season.

27 different Jets have had the opportunity to take a shot, with Ehlers at #18.

Kulikov is used more and at 25% efficiency was a better option.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Unless we get a defenseman that is currently better than either Morrissey or Pionk. Scratch that - a lot better than those two - then I wouldn't consider trading Connor.

I wouldn't consider trading Connor for any Dman, unless it was a top 10-15 in the league.

I wouldn't require quite such a high standard for a C.

 

[Positive]

Sorted by career shootout shot attempts since 2015-2016, Ehlers first NHL season.

27 different Jets have had the opportunity to take a shot, with Ehlers at #18.

Kulikov is used more and at 25% efficiency was a better option.


View attachment 327471

Byfuglien, Stastny, and Ehlers are a combined 0-21 lifetime. That is stunning.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

A more "high percentage" effort would have been nice. And Brossoit looked like he was "surprised" by every shot.

Brossoit was like a statue in the shootout - never moved. But let's face it, he significantly outplayed Holtby during the game.

 

[hn777]

Ehlers just tried what Giroux succeeded on in November. It happens.

Claude Giroux slap shot shootout goal vs. Toronto Maple Leafs

 

[Gm0ney]

A more "high percentage" effort would have been nice. And Brossoit looked like he was "surprised" by every shot.

Even the one he saved...

 

[Gm0ney]

Fun fact. In Denmark "a Danish" is called Vienna bread.

Also, at least once every couple of weeks when I tell people I'm Danish they start telling me how wonderful of a time they had in Amsterdam My theory is that Americans only learn geography from going to war

The Netherlands is confusing because it's called "The Netherlands" and also "Holland" but the citizens are "Dutch". What the f***? So people probably get caught thinking "Danish" is just another synonym for Netherlands/Holland/Dutch. They're relatively close to each other on the north coast of Europe...Gronigen to Middelfart is about the same drive as Winnipeg to Regina. Practically neighbours. Very confusing. Sort it out.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Reaves would fit in nicely (see my post discussing this). He is already better at hockey than any of our fourth liners, and his offense isn't that far off from Lowry (this year, I believe it's better). Of course, we would have to pry him off out of Vegas first.

But beyond that, I'm not advocating a line of Mike Pelusos. I am saying, however, that it's foolhardy to get smaller and weaker cuz ya ain't gonna last when you make it to the dance. We are looking at a possibly blueline of Morrissey, Pionk, Niku and Heinola. You might as well paint their faces blue and tell them scary stories about Gargamel. The only forwards that can even pass for "tough" (as in standing up for themselves or their teammates) is Lowry. I mean, do you want Laine, Scheifele or Wheeler dropping the mits (and don't mention Ehler because I'm trying to be serious).

There's no way Orlov would have gone headhunting if we still had the line-up we've had in year's past, and that's not including the Thorburns or Pelusos.

Nobody is setting out to get smaller and weaker, no team is. They are choosing speed and skill over knuckledraggers. That often means smaller. Small and quick can win Cups too but the last couple of winners have been bigger, more physical teams. The NHL is nothing if not reactionary, so now we are seeing teams bulking up (TBL).

Personally, I prefer a balance. I prefer all players to be able to look after themselves, one way or another. For some that means avoiding the biggest, most physical players. You can't hit what you can't catch. For others that means being able to dish it out in return.

I also prefer all the players to be skillful. I have no use for players whose main asset is unusual size. But a really big guy who can play is a great asset to have. More like Buff than like Reaves.

 

[DannyGallivan]

Nobody is setting out to get smaller and weaker, no team is. They are choosing speed and skill over knuckledraggers. That often means smaller. Small and quick can win Cups too but the last couple of winners have been bigger, more physical teams. The NHL is nothing if not reactionary, so now we are seeing teams bulking up (TBL).

Personally, I prefer a balance. I prefer all players to be able to look after themselves, one way or another. For some that means avoiding the biggest, most physical players. You can't hit what you can't catch. For others that means being able to dish it out in return.

I also prefer all the players to be skillful. I have no use for players whose main asset is unusual size. But a really big guy who can play is a great asset to have. More like Buff than like Reaves.

I agree with everything you say, but with a couple of caveats... a team that is too small can be neutralized (in other words, if you don't have an answer to the physical game, you will lose). We didn't have a answer yesterday, and it's not the first time I've seen the Jets get pushed around this season. Yeah, you may not be able to hit what you can't catch, but you can't catch what avoids the boards and the corners. If you scare a team away from those areas, you've won.

Secondly, you can't have a blueline of entirely undersized defensemen. There especially needs to have a balance in that area.

 

[GNP]

...so Orlov can go head hunting and our players look around for a desk to hide under.

I think after Washington's next playoff run, a "correction" will take place in the NHL. I'm not saying that we'll have a return to the big, bad 70's, but that era was kick-started by an easily intimidated Flyer team getting pushed around by the Blues in the playoffs. They decided that wasn't going to happen again and loaded up on goons.

Now, Washington has Wilson, Gudas, Dillon, Orlov... and when they meet the Pens in the playoffs and the only player Pittsburgh has to stand up to them is Malkin....

Well, let's just say a correction may be coming sooner rather than later. Not to the 70's or 80's (because hockey was much more violent even before the Flyers era) but teams won't leave themselves vulnerable to a spanking anymore.

_______________________________________________

Your so very right Danny -- I saw an interview with Bobby Clarke, and he was saying the Flyers brought in tough guys like Dave Schultz to protect him and their young stars. Same happened a long time ago in Montreal, when the Habs brought in John Ferguson to protect their smaller talent guys like Ivan Cournyere, and Henri Richard --from the big bad Bruins. Same with the Islanders with Clarke Gillies, and then the Oilers with Dave Semenko and McSorely. Then there was Bob Probert to protect Steve Yzerman --and on and on it goes.

It's quite apparent some posters on here, just don't understand the intimidation element that still goes on in Hockey today, but certainly not as bad as the 70's or 1980's when they had bench clearing brawls. It's still there though, and you have to have guys that will protect your younger talent guys --or you just won't win.

Right now the Jet's have "nobody" and will get eaten alive--especially in the playoffs. I 100 % agree with your post.

The Jets have to rebuild their defense with some bigger tough guys, along the line of Trouba and Chiarot --and a couple physical forwards that can play hockey as well --then we'll be OK.

Keep Morrissey and Pionk --and rebuild with younger bigger guys IMO.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I agree with everything you say, but with a couple of caveats... a team that is too small can be neutralized (in other words, if you don't have an answer to the physical game, you will lose). We didn't have a answer yesterday, and it's not the first time I've seen the Jets get pushed around this season. Yeah, you may not be able to hit what you can't catch, but you can't catch what avoids the boards and the corners. If you scare a team away from those areas, you've won.

Secondly, you can't have a blueline of entirely undersized defensemen. There especially needs to have a balance in that area.

If one smaller Dman can be successful, so can more. It is 2 different stories if each small Dman needs a big partner to protect him or if a pair of smaller Dmen can succeed. If 1 smaller pair can succeed, then so can 2, or 3. There is only 1 pair on the ice at a time.

That said, they can't be successful if they are having to concede some part of the game. In that case, that part of the game is the only thing they will see. But there are smaller pairs that are successful. They find ways to succeed that don't rely on brute force.

The same goes for forwards. I don't think there is a single template for what constitutes a good hockey player. Some succeed by strength, some succeed by finesse. It is the outcome that matters, not the method.

It is nice to have some big, strong players who can push back. It is not a necessity.

 

[puck stoppa]

Anyone? On the lines? Did they change during the game?

 

[gojetsgo]

Anyone? On the lines? Did they change during the game?

yes, connor went back to scheif and wheeler, ehlers eakin laine, rosie copp harkins, rest stayed on the bench mostly

 

[gojetsgo]

can I just say normally if a team is scared/intimidated they don't come back from 3 goals. we didn't back off at all, we took the hits to make some plays

 

[GNP]

If one smaller Dman can be successful, so can more.

The same goes for forwards. I don't think there is a single template for what constitutes a good hockey player. Some succeed by strength, some succeed by finesse. It is the outcome that matters, not the method.

It's nice to have some big, strong players who can push back. It is not a necessity.

______________________________________________

Your very right --it's not a necessity if you don't mind losing -- but if you want to win, the History of Hockey will tell you it certainly a necessity. Just look at past championship teams and see who played on them. In all cases they had "enforcers" to protect the talent guys, and many of these enforcers were also pretty good Hockey Players.

If they took fighting out of the game like the NFL and NBA --then I could agree with what your trying to sell. That won't happen though, as paying fans love to see the odd fight.

 

[puck stoppa]

yes, connor went back to scheif and wheeler, ehlers eakin laine, rosie copp harkins, rest stayed on the bench mostly

Thank you. Any look good? I’d just like to see Scheif with Ehlers Laine just once!

 

[DannyGallivan]

can I just say normally if a team is scared/intimidated they don't come back from 3 goals. we didn't back off at all, we took the hits to make some plays

True, but I'm thinking playoffs and doing that will get you killed physically in a best of seven. It doesn't matter how brave you are... if your players end up injured because there's no deterrent, then what good are they?

And even if you look at the game, Ehlers' goal was very fortunate (a bad giveaway and a flukey rebound) and Scheifele's goal (although a great individual effort) bounced in off of Orlov's skate. In other words, the Jets were fortunate to get their single point.

 

[Farmboy Patty]

can I just say normally if a team is scared/intimidated they don't come back from 3 goals. we didn't back off at all, we took the hits to make some plays

One does not exclude the other. Some of our guys looked a bit tentative at times and seemed very aware of the mismatch in size and physicality between them and the Caps players, and it affected their play for sure. It was well done by the team to come back from three goals, but I’m sure that our smaller guys wouldn’t mind having some muscle by their side when they are getting pushed around. Take Pionk as an example – at times he looked like a boy playing against men in his own zone. Ideally he would have a legit big, stay at home, top 4 D partner with enough grit to clean up in their end a clean someones clock once in while when they start taking liberties. I’m betting that it’s on top of Chevy’s todo list in the off season.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

I'd have hoped that everyone knows the difference between Denmark & The Netherlands.

I'm pretty sure this all started with Sip being Sip and intentionally calling Ehlers by the wrong nationality. Now, it's just taken on a life of its own. Like goalies are hoodoo.

 

[GNP]

Take Pionk as an example – at times he looked like a boy playing against men in his own zone. Ideally he would have a legit big, stay at home, top 4 D partner with enough grit to clean up in their end a clean someones clock once in while when they start taking liberties. I'm betting that it's on top of Chevy's to do list this off season.

________________________________________________

Yes, I would agree with you for certain here. Chevy was a defenseman when he played, and from wjhat I've read, he was a pretty tough customer --so he should know there is a "problem" here, and I also expect him to addess it. It does make you wonder why he would draft guys like Heinola, and Niku though ?? and what will the Jet's do with these undersized guys ?? They'll get beat up and bashed into the boards.

 

[gojetsgo]

________________________________________________

Yes, I would agree with you for certain here. Chevy was a defenseman when he played, and from wjhat I've read, he was a pretty tough customer --so he should know there is a "problem" here, and I also expect him to addess it. It does make you wonder why he would draft guys like Heinola, and Niku though ?? and what will the Jet's do with these undersized guys ?? They'll get beat up and bashed into the boards.

he drafted them due to skill, having a mindset like this would have caused us to draft ritchie over ehlers.

 

[GNP]

he drafted them due to skill, having a mindset like this would have caused us to draft ritchie over ehlers.

_________________________________________________

I'm generally talking defenseman here --we need size and strength. Skill guys like Connor and Ehlers are fine, as they are forwards, and you can have a couple tough defenseman on the ice to protect them --if need be.

We're not running the Ice Capades here -- or a figure skating show. We're going to need some size and toughness.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

he drafted them due to skill, having a mindset like this would have caused us to draft ritchie over ehlers.

And I'll bet Maurice was sitting there hoping they would do just that.