Management Claude Julien - Mod Warning post 643

[Mpasta]

Both Reggiemoto and BBB24 predicted the Bruins to finish 2nd or 3rd in the division and make the playoffs as well as 68 other posters.

Now my question is, did the posters who thought we'd have such a great year this season think it would be the defense playing so well (this was before Carlo made the team) or Rask being in contention for the Vezina?

I'm guessing these people thought it would be our offense that carried us because... wait for it... they are talented enough.

 

[toasterjam]

it goes both ways. When does Claude get credit for the good things the team is doing? Seems there are a lot of people who have nothing good to say about Claude when the team is playing well and then want him fired when the team hits a 3 game losing streak.

That's great and all...I have NO issues giving Clode credit for when team does good. Lots of the posters have said what they like about Clode, an amazing coach, defensive genius, elite hockey mind. I don't hate Clode.

When team lost Liles and Chara I praised his defensive structure, the D stepped up and did amazing, only letting in 1-2 goals.

I love Clode, always will for that Cup.

Doesnt mean I can't call him out for some questionable things.


Lots of our wins this season seems to be a little skewed. We get an amazing D system but other times rely on Rask and Pasta playing at GOD LIKE levels to win us games.

Which can be alright, we get wins...but not sure that is sustainable.

The entire team needs to be better..that includes Clode and whatever the **** Sacco even does.

I have no sympathy for Sacco. If you are the one who works with the PP, what the **** have you guys been working on? Mr.Sacco...What would you say, you do here???

 

[NDiesel]

So what exactly IS Claude responsible for?

It actually appears there are people who think Claude is just a not so pretty face for the media to pepper with dumb questions after the game.

He's not responsible in any way for bad offense.
He's not responsible for motivation after a bad period.
He's not responsible for the lack of PP success.
He's not responsible in any way for only one line being productive, and not adjusting his lines until a third of the way through the year.

Like...please. One of you guys tell me what Claude IS responsible for because I'm starting to think that because the talent level isn't up to your standards, he has no obligations. That's what your posts appear to be telling me. Every single issue that could possible even be partially on him is so whimsically deflected, it is staggering.

I know you're just quoting me because I was responding and probably isn't directed only at myself, but I certainly don't think Claude is clear of blame. He does a lot of things that he should be blamed for, but at the same time there are a lot of things he should be given credit for and posters on here refuse to do that too.

It's a serious statement on the players on this team if they can't come out of an intermission after a poor period and get something going. Claud can yell and scream at them all he wants, but THEY HAVE TO WANT TO PLAY BETTER.

At the same time his benching of young guys for making mistakes and giving vets the longest leash ever is infuriating beyond comprehension, as others have said he needs to change lines up when they struggle as well.

I don't personally think there is any coach available who will get as much out of the Bruins as Claude will. If all you want is more offense and more exciting play, then by all means hire someone else, but this team will drop to a lottery team and waste a lot of good players' prime years.

 

[toasterjam]

I know you're just quoting me because I was responding and probably isn't directed only at myself, but I certainly don't think Claude is clear of blame. He does a lot of things that he should be blamed for, but at the same time there are a lot of things he should be given credit for and posters on here refuse to do that too.

It's a serious statement on the players on this team if they can't come out of an intermission after a poor period and get something going. Claud can yell and scream at them all he wants, but THEY HAVE TO WANT TO PLAY BETTER.

At the same time his benching of young guys for making mistakes and giving vets the longest leash ever is infuriating beyond comprehension, as others have said he needs to change lines up when they struggle as well.

I don't personally think there is any coach available who will get as much out of the Bruins as Claude will. If all you want is more offense and more exciting play, then by all means hire someone else, but this team will drop to a lottery team and waste a lot of good players' prime years.

agreed...and like I said, it IS the players fault too.

Just saying, since weve seen it so many times, the coaching staffs approach doesn't seem to be helping much in these games.

Who knows what Babcock said between periods to turn the leafs on...maybe it was nothing and the guys knew they laid an egg with only 2 shots in the first and came out motivated.

I just know whatever Clode WAS saying, didnt seem to have any effect on the bruins play or raising their game up.

After the 2nd period, same exact thing...Leafs came out in the 3rd FLYING. Bruins still flat..and it wasnt the first time ive seen that play out.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

I know you're just quoting me because I was responding and probably isn't directed only at myself, but I certainly don't think Claude is clear of blame. He does a lot of things that he should be blamed for, but at the same time there are a lot of things he should be given credit for and posters on here refuse to do that too.

It's a serious statement on the players on this team if they can't come out of an intermission after a poor period and get something going. Claud can yell and scream at them all he wants, but THEY HAVE TO WANT TO PLAY BETTER.

At the same time his benching of young guys for making mistakes and giving vets the longest leash ever is infuriating beyond comprehension, as others have said he needs to change lines up when they struggle as well.

I don't personally think there is any coach available who will get as much out of the Bruins as Claude will. If all you want is more offense and more exciting play, then by all means hire someone else, but this team will drop to a lottery team and waste a lot of good players' prime years.

Not trying to offend, but I think that's a big part of your problem. You and I acting like we have a good grasp and evaluation over the entire spectrum of possible coaches is insane. When you are considering of "who could replace Claude?" what knowledge base are you drawing from? Past NHL coaches that you can think of? Do you know anything about the ways of certain college coaches or junior coaches? How about take a leap and maybe someone with professional experience overseas? Maybe pull someone up from the A? Perhaps an assistant with a chance of taking the role permanently if he performs well. I certainly would like to know the details on all of these possible people, but I admittedly do not. So, I'm not going to let my ignorance make me fearful that "there's no one out there". Logically, there are plausible replacements, but we as casual fans do not know about them.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I am guessing you're making the statement of "no coaches available that could get as much out of this team as Claude" with very little total knowledge on possible replacements. Assuming that out of the thousands of possible replacements, there isn't one that could plausibly be an improvement is just an insane thought.

 

[toasterjam]

Not trying to offend, but I think that's a big part of your problem. You and I acting like we have a good grasp and evaluation over the entire spectrum of possible coaches is insane. When you are considering of "who could replace Claude?" what knowledge base are you drawing from? Past NHL coaches that you can think of? Do you know anything about the ways of certain college coaches or junior coaches? How about take a leap and maybe someone with professional experience overseas? Maybe pull someone up from the A? Perhaps an assistant with a chance of taking the role permanently if he performs well. I certainly would like to know the details on all of these possible people, but I admittedly do not. So, I'm not going to let my ignorance make me fearful that "there's no one out there". Logically, there are plausible replacements, but we as casual fans do not know about them.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I am guessing you're making the statement of "no coaches available that could get as much out of this team as Claude" with very little total knowledge on possible replacements. Assuming that out of the thousands of possible replacements, there isn't one that could plausibly be an improvement is just an insane thought.

this basically needs to be posted any time someone says "well who else is even out there?? give us names for Clode replacement, there are no better options!"

honestly...I dont think I can name 10 AHL coaches...dont think I can name more than 3 College coaches...dont know any Junior ones other than names, nothing about history or style of play. Nothing about coaches overseas, a little bit on past NHL coaches but not much in terms of their coaching style.

I fully admit I don't know....wasnt Clode once an AHL coach who was given a chance to prove himself?

So yea...that's exactly the correct response to "no better coaches out there"

who the **** knows? do any of the people saying this have ANY knowledge about other coaches out there? how to judge a coach? what styles they have, strengths-weaknesses? and then how to apply that to the bruins roster? Or is it easier/safer to just say "Clode is the only one who can do it" and rely on that security blanket.

Do I think there is some prime perfect coach sitting and waiting who will come in and instantly be a better coach than Clode and fix all the bruins problems? no...but holding on to Clode out of fear of change/fear of the unknown isnt the right step either.

No matter who comes into this job whenever Clode is done, WILL face an adjustment period and it wont be like everything will be perfect...I think everyone agrees on that too.

I do know when it does happen (whenever that is) we will never hear the end of it from the Pro-Clode band after every loss with the new coach. "HA SEE BRUINS LOST, BUT BUT I THOUGHT IT WAS ALL CLODES FAULT" there are actually posters here patiently waiting for that moment so they can finally say "TOLD YOU SO!!".

Such an odd agenda to push but Ive seen people say that here. They cant wait for a new coach to come along so that when the bruins are still bad or struggling, they can say "See told you so!!"

Clode is a safe figure for us, it's been a ****ing decade, we know what kind of coach he is and what he is capable of. Change is unknown, we dont know what we are going to get, it could very well be worse...but..I mean...things can also get better eventually too? sometimes we need a new voice or direction? again..I do want to see Clode get this team together and be successful but if it doesnt happen...I mean...at some point we might need a change?

 

[VanIsle]

Claude would be a great coach for the new Vegas franchise.

He would have a lot of poorly skilled players that are in need of direction having never played with each other. Hard working grinders that all play the same amount of minutes while being defensively responsible and organized.

I couldn't think of a better guy for that type of team.

 

[chizzler]

Claude would be a great coach for the new Vegas franchise.

He would have a lot of poorly skilled players that are in need of direction having never played with each other. Hard working grinders that all play the same amount of minutes while being defensively responsible and organized.

I couldn't think of a better guy for that type of team.

Yah he would. Probably a better record.

 

[NDiesel]

Not trying to offend, but I think that's a big part of your problem. You and I acting like we have a good grasp and evaluation over the entire spectrum of possible coaches is insane. When you are considering of "who could replace Claude?" what knowledge base are you drawing from? Past NHL coaches that you can think of? Do you know anything about the ways of certain college coaches or junior coaches? How about take a leap and maybe someone with professional experience overseas? Maybe pull someone up from the A? Perhaps an assistant with a chance of taking the role permanently if he performs well. I certainly would like to know the details on all of these possible people, but I admittedly do not. So, I'm not going to let my ignorance make me fearful that "there's no one out there". Logically, there are plausible replacements, but we as casual fans do not know about them.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I am guessing you're making the statement of "no coaches available that could get as much out of this team as Claude" with very little total knowledge on possible replacements. Assuming that out of the thousands of possible replacements, there isn't one that could plausibly be an improvement is just an insane thought.

Okay, I may have exaggerated a little. Yes, there are likely some coach's out there that can do the job as good as Claude. As a matter of fact there certainly are. I would argue the majority of these candidates are probably employed at the moment. Again, you're right I don't know how many coaches are out there and available that are as good as Claude, or worse. Who knows.

I'm sure the Bruins brass did their due diligence this past off season before deciding to keep Claude. Don't you think that they would have quite a bit of knowledge on potential coach's and who may be an upgrade? Clearly they thought Claude was the best choice for this year at the very least.

I only really wanted to comment on the commentary that Claude is at fault for the flat periods that the team is playing. My only argument is that if these guys can't be motivated after a poor period to come out firing, then replacing Claude isn't going to change that. They need a culture change if that is the case. If Claude is part of that culture change is a whole other issue.

 

[toasterjam]

Okay, I may have exaggerated a little. Yes, there are likely some coach's out there that can do the job as good as Claude. As a matter of fact there certainly are. I would argue the majority of these candidates are probably employed at the moment. Again, you're right I don't know how many coaches are out there and available that are as good as Claude, or worse. Who knows.

I'm sure the Bruins brass did their due diligence this past off season before deciding to keep Claude. Don't you think that they would have quite a bit of knowledge on potential coach's and who may be an upgrade? Clearly they thought Claude was the best choice for this year at the very least.

I only really wanted to comment on the commentary that Claude is at fault for the flat periods that the team is playing. My only argument is that if these guys can't be motivated after a poor period to come out firing, then replacing Claude isn't going to change that. They need a culture change if that is the case. If Claude is part of that culture change is a whole other issue.

I never said it was just Clode at fault for the flat periods....but he SHOULD get SOME of the blame.

Like I said previously...my point was...it isnt Clode's fault they come out flat the next periods...just saying him/coaching staff dont seem to be helping stop it from happening either...because it keeps happening.

Like at some point we can say "ok players fault they came out flat in the second" but whatever methods the coaching staff is using in terms of talking to the guys between periods, tactics, yelling, saying nothing, singling guys out, being positive, whatever it is that they are doing...well it doesnt seem to be helping much because the guys just come out flat anyway.

And so they need to work on that too...or get a new voice in the room..or change something?

Having these flat periods where we never match the raise in intensity and play is very dangerous...thinking back, it happened a BUNCH last year too and the season before that. We dont capitalize when we dominate and it comes back to haunt us later because we cant sustain that dominant play....for whatever reason (players effort, mistakes, injuries, tactics, out coached etc etc)

 

[ReggieMoto]

We get it. Claude can't be criticized.

Take this nonsense somewhere else. I'm not saying that. I've never said that. I go out of my way to not say that. And I've criticized the coach when warranted. If that's all you got out of my posts, I can't help that.

 

[TMac21]

I agree with those who say he is not maximizing the potential of his forward group. Riley Nash cannot be your third line centre when your team is struggling to score, but looks like Spooner will get a look there tonight so that is progress.

 

[since76]

Clode is not responsible for pp
Not responsible for roster
Not responsible for trade , zero influence
Clode is not responsible when 95% of lineup underperform
Claude is not responsible for the zero emotion team
Claude is not responsible when he put a one point a year player on pp, he have no choice
Claude is not responsible for the ashaming stats against habs
Claude is not responsible for the only 3-0 lead lost in all history of the team

Claude is responsible only only only only for the wins !!!!
All the rest is garbage and free attack of his pure and perfect coahing life

 

[since76]

When we take all what clode is not respnsible from his lovers, all he have to do as coach is bring water ))))))

 

[BBB24]

Both Reggiemoto and BBB24 predicted the Bruins to finish 2nd or 3rd in the division and make the playoffs as well as 68 other posters.

Now my question is, did the posters who thought we'd have such a great year this season think it would be the defense playing so well (this was before Carlo made the team) or Rask being in contention for the Vezina?

I'm guessing these people thought it would be our offense that carried us because... wait for it... they are talented enough.

Well hate to point it out but with all the panic going on and the Bs are still in third in their division, don't know what else to tell ya.

 

[chizzler]

Well hate to point it out but with all the panic going on and the Bs are still in third in their division, don't know what else to tell ya.

They'll probably stay there. It's an up and down team. Unfortunately, the losses hurt more than big wins. Enjoy the ride. I don't see much change coming. They need too much. A trade just to make a trade doesn't help.

 

[Gee Wally]

Ive been watching this and other threads now for a couple of days.
Its a heated and divisive subject . No doubt about it.

But it has also sequed into a 5th grade personal shot cesspool. Whether specifically against one poster or a group.

This is to stop.

Its not up for negotiation.

 

[BBB24]

The whole "this lineup is a bunch of scrubs" is complete *********. I get we do not have the most talented roster in the league, but look around. As others have pointed out, Philadelphia is icing Weise-Cousins-Leire as their third line and it is the best offense in the league. Claude has Bergeron, Krejci, Pastrnak, Marchand, Backes, Rask, Chara, etc. Is it a top team in the league talent wise? No, it's not top 5 or anything. But, this notion that Claude can't be criticized and held accountable because he doesn't have a stacked roster...it's stupid. It's not logical. Just as the notion is (that has been brought up for the past five years every time someone talks about potentially letting Clode go) about "but there's no one available" when it comes to a coach. Saying "oh, he's done so well in the past, so I don't want to risk firing him is gutless. It is almost cowardly. I don't understand how there's all this pressure on Don Sweeney to come in and have the team loaded up and ready to go in just over a year, yet Claude is in year 3 and he's given break after break even when there are obvious criticisms to hand out.

If we're just going to defend him with things like his overall win percentage over ten years, then hey, let me go ahead and use that in defense of Krejci for the past couple seasons. Let me deflect any Chara criticisms with that too. It's just not realistic. Yes, past performance matters. What one has accomplished shows a lot about their talent and character. But turning a blind eye to current results (at least for some apparently) is foolish.

It is frustrating when people come on here and mis quote other poster, it is like watching an election campaign. I never said the line up was a bunch of scrubs, I did state that the bottom six is, less Moore and Belesky, when he is healthy. I would take Weiss, Cousins and Leire over Czarnik, Accardi, Hayes, Schaller any day of the week, that is my whole point. Not sure why some posters keep posting about the Flyers third line, nothing much wrong with it. Let's give Claude a roster of NHL players top to bottom and he will once again bring the cup to Boston or at th very least give them a couple of deep PO runs, he has proven he can do that and no one can take that away from him.

Edit. Yes let's get rid of Krejci while we are at it, third in points on the team, played the whole season with just one NHL winger, but let's no ride Bergy to hard with his 4 goals as he must be hurt. It is not like Krejci is just coming back from surgery and didn't saker all summer til start of training camp. Yup let's unload him, must be some some ECHL. or overage NCAA guy looking for work we can warm up to.

 

[ReggieMoto]

Both Reggiemoto and BBB24 predicted the Bruins to finish 2nd or 3rd in the division and make the playoffs as well as 68 other posters.

I remember this poll. It was pre-season? Right?

I'm going to guess my thoughts were at least a) a partial solution on defense, and b) a relatively healthy offense. I think we got (a) but (b) remains elusive.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Refer to post #614 by Wack Edwards from here on out for my viewpoint.

I'll take that as a white flag.

 

[since76]

Let's be honest, who was claude before the outstanding tim thomas playoffs in 2011 ? A coach ready to be fired for the third time !
Now look at claude stats since thomas is gone ?
Claude is what he is ....a shadow of what thomas made...

 

[World of Wardlow]

Claude can only do so much with what Sweeney gives him ...

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

I'll take that as a white flag.

No idea why you would do that. I have made enough posts in the thread for you to see I'm pretty confident in my stance.

 

[toasterjam]

Let's make a list of what EXACTLY Clode is responsible for with this current team, a list that both the "pro/anti" (huge simplification as I dont see myself as either pro or anti clode, i want him to do good but also hold him accountable) Clode groups can agree on.

He is responsible for still icing Jimmy Hayes right? Nash on 3rd line or is that all on Sweeney?

We can all agree that Jimmy isnt the best decision at this point right? (watch him score tonight haha) So that is a start.

Start simple, all the guys who are saying Clode doesnt have the talent, not his job to motivate the guys after bad periods, not his fault the lines dont work because there is no talent in bottom 6/guys giving no effort

not his fault guys give no effort, arent motivated and cant create offense.

It clearly is not his fault for the injuries but EVERY team faces that kind of adversity.

Is it his fault the PP isnt working still? Sacco's fault? Players fault?

Maybe problems with his system? anything? or is the system fine and it's just the players?

This is an honest post...I would really like to see the pro-clode posters give at least some list of where Clode could be held accountable for the teams poor performance. (losing back to back vs last place teams and doing so in bad fashion, no effort....relying too heavily on Pasta and Rask, our scoring problems)


Lets start there, see if we can agree on some things like Hayes, and maybe have a better discussion from it.

Nobody should be saying it's not clode's fault or it's 100% clodes fault...there has gotta be a middle ground here.

 

[What The Puck]

Kind of surprised anyone is still defending our coach.

* How long did it take to figure out that our leading goalscorer needs to be on the first power-play? How long did it take Marchy last year to end up on the power play?
* Why is it that all of CJ's binkies are no talent bubble players?
* How long does it take CJ to change the lines?
* How long does it take for Hayes to stay benched?
* How many late-season meltdowns does it take to get a coaching change?

And I still haven't gotten over Gregory Campbell late in the third period with the season on the line. It still drives me insane just to think about it.