Value of: Claude Giroux to a contender

[Appleyard]

I can GUARANTEE, you have looked at his plus/minus only and not watched him play this year, when making this statement.

Guarantee.

Yeh, his underlying defensive stats are in the ~80th centile for NHL forwards.
Last year they were ~85th centile.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

I can GUARANTEE, you have looked at his plus/minus only and not watched him play this year, when making this statement.

Guarantee.

I did watch him. You’re also quoting a post that’s a couple weeks old that was coming after a low point in the season for him

The entire Philly team has looked better in December. They’re not leaving Hart out to dry nearly as much from what I’ve seen

 

[Starat327]

I did watch him. You’re also quoting a post that’s a couple weeks old that was coming after a low point in the season for him

The entire Philly team has looked better in December. They’re not leaving Hart out to dry nearly as much from what I’ve seen

Giroux never looked poor defensively. It doesn't matter which part of the season you watched, Giroux has been consistent even when the team around him was not.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Giroux never looked poor defensively. It doesn't matter which part of the season you watched, Giroux has been consistent even when the team around him was not.

This. Best player on the team last season, best player on the team this season.

 

[emmitt fitzhume]

I think its time for a change of scenery as well, and the let Couts be the face of the team. End of an era.

But yes, I imagine hell be looking for a new home this summer. No reason to stay other than not uprooting his family.

disagree

 

[TheWolfOfBroadStreet]

I did watch him. You’re also quoting a post that’s a couple weeks old that was coming after a low point in the season for him

The entire Philly team has looked better in December. They’re not leaving Hart out to dry nearly as much from what I’ve seen

our underlying metrics have sucked even when we were winning. The Flyers are just simply not a good team right now. Maybe with Yeo's system changes, players getting healthy, and underperforming players magically coming to fruition than there is a chance they dont suck but hope is not a strategy.

Giroux and Hart have pretty much been the only 2 consistantly being good. Giroux is getting to Timonnen level in the sense that I just want him to win a cup and while it would pain me that its not in Philly he deserves better. His game is similar to Martin St Louis in terms of how I think he will age. He is not a physical player nor relies on speed so I dont see him slowing down anytime soon. I understand from an outside perspective many will see age and cap hit but I truly believe he can be the missing piece for a team with cup aspirations. I have no doubt if he does decide to move on the return will be in Philly's favor simply due to the magnitude of the trade in regards to the Flyers roster moving forward.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

Lot of people in Philly gonna be missing Claude when he is gone.

Shame the Flyers organization wasted Giroux’s prime, as Laude’s best chance at a cup was way back in 2010...

 

[franste Perreault]

I can see Giroux in a leafs jersey if they can cleared enough salary space to fit Giroux in.
Leafs are not my favorite team but with Giroux in this lineup the top 9 fowards will probably be the best in the league.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Giroux has a NMC. His value is limited due to the selection of teams he will choose and how the other GM's would know about it if the Flyers call to discuss a trade. What about the Oilers?

* Giroux with retention
* M Jones
for
* Koskinen (cap reasons... pending UFA)
* Turris (cap reasons... pending UFA)
* 1st rounder
* Other parts?

Wouldn't Giroux be a good fit with RNH while you can put Drai back with MacDavid? I think Giroux waives to go to the Oilers

 

[FlyguyOX]

Giroux has a NMC. His value is limited due to the selection of teams he will choose and how the other GM's would know about it if the Flyers call to discuss a trade. What about the Oilers?

* Giroux with retention
* M Jones
for
* Koskinen (cap reasons... pending UFA)
* Turris (cap reasons... pending UFA)
* 1st rounder
* Other parts?

Wouldn't Giroux be a good fit with RNH while you can put Drai back with MacDavid? I think Giroux waives to go to the Oilers

So basically just Giroux for a late first. So tempting. Best offer I've seen so far. Tantalizing.

 

[Habs Halifax]

So basically just Giroux for a late first. So tempting. Best offer I've seen so far. Tantalizing.

No, not basically. "Other parts" is to be negotiated but you are making assumptions that those other parts are an automatic meh.

However, It was tantalizing for you though to belittle it without even asking any questions on what those other parts could be. Classic HF board culture. Don't reply to me and if you do, I rather talk to others who prefer to chat with respect and not go into assumption mode

 

[Fogelhund]

I can see Giroux in a leafs jersey if they can cleared enough salary space to fit Giroux in.
Leafs are not my favorite team but with Giroux in this lineup the top 9 fowards will probably be the best in the league.

I just don't see how. Would he improve the team... sure... If I'm giving up the type of assets, that Philadelphia should expect in return, I'm hoping for a guy that I can keep long-term. Realistically, we couldn't afford to resign him above $4 mil... even that, would be ridiculously tight. I can't think of why he'd sign for such a low value, nor should he.

 

[FlyguyOX]

No, not basically. "Other parts" is to be negotiated but you are making assumptions that those other parts are an automatic meh.

However, It was tantalizing for you though to belittle it without even asking any questions on what those other parts could be. Classic HF board culture. Don't reply to me and if you do, I rather talk to others who prefer to chat with respect and not go into assumption mode

What's the point of posting something vague like "other parts"? You basically said "hey this would be great for the oilers, here's some junk from the oilers and a 1st plus maybe other parts." How does that create a conversation or debate over value? Here, I'll do it for you. 1st, 3rd, Dylan Holloway, Ilya Konovalov

 

[The Moose is Loose]

our underlying metrics have sucked even when we were winning. The Flyers are just simply not a good team right now. Maybe with Yeo's system changes, players getting healthy, and underperforming players magically coming to fruition than there is a chance they dont suck but hope is not a strategy.

Giroux and Hart have pretty much been the only 2 consistantly being good. Giroux is getting to Timonnen level in the sense that I just want him to win a cup and while it would pain me that its not in Philly he deserves better. His game is similar to Martin St Louis in terms of how I think he will age. He is not a physical player nor relies on speed so I dont see him slowing down anytime soon. I understand from an outside perspective many will see age and cap hit but I truly believe he can be the missing piece for a team with cup aspirations. I have no doubt if he does decide to move on the return will be in Philly's favor simply due to the magnitude of the trade in regards to the Flyers roster moving forward.

Fair enough maybe I mischaractized Giroux.

I watched several Philly games right before I made that post and the team was a disaster defensively. As the captain and star forward, I placed that label on him as well but it seems he didn’t deserve it

 

[TheWolfOfBroadStreet]

Fair enough maybe I mischaractized Giroux.

I watched several Philly games right before I made that post and the team was a disaster defensively. As the captain and star forward, I placed that label on him as well but it seems he didn’t deserve it

Appreciate your willingness to admit perhaps you made a mistake with your initial assessment.

I have no idea what the return would be for G if he decided to leave, but I am confident the team trading for him would "lose" the trade on paper (at least by this boards standards). The team that trades for G I promise will not be dissapointed in his performance though, you can literally play him anywhere in the lineup, combined with his FO % and ability to succeed on both the PP/PK and his 5v5 metrics (which surprisingly have been getting better somehow with age?) and you got yourself a damn good addition to a cup ready team.

The point I am trying to make, if he does get traded, be happy with the player you are getting and dont freak out about "over paying."

 

[Barnaby]

I think Claude would bring something back along the lines of what the Rangers got from Boston for Nash. A 1st, a solid prospect, and maybe another roster player or pick.

 

[Barnaby]

What's the point of posting something vague like "other parts"? You basically said "hey this would be great for the oilers, here's some junk from the oilers and a 1st plus maybe other parts." How does that create a conversation or debate over value? Here, I'll do it for you. 1st, 3rd, Dylan Holloway, Ilya Konovalov

I don’t see them trading Holloway for a rental. High end prospects generally don’t get traded for rentals. Every year we see a million proposals around here but the upper echelon guys are seldom moved. On top of that the ELC contracts are more valuable than ever.

 

[Starat327]

Giroux has a NMC. His value is limited due to the selection of teams he will choose and how the other GM's would know about it if the Flyers call to discuss a trade. What about the Oilers?

* Giroux with retention
* M Jones
for
* Koskinen (cap reasons... pending UFA)
* Turris (cap reasons... pending UFA)
* 1st rounder
* Other parts?

Wouldn't Giroux be a good fit with RNH while you can put Drai back with MacDavid? I think Giroux waives to go to the Oilers

The flyers aren't eating two dumps and retention for a likely late first for someone who will be arguably the best deadline rental in recent history.

Those "other parts" would be worth more than that first, in this scenario.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Appreciate your willingness to admit perhaps you made a mistake with your initial assessment.

I have no idea what the return would be for G if he decided to leave, but I am confident the team trading for him would "lose" the trade on paper (at least by this boards standards). The team that trades for G I promise will not be dissapointed in his performance though, you can literally play him anywhere in the lineup, combined with his FO % and ability to succeed on both the PP/PK and his 5v5 metrics (which surprisingly have been getting better somehow with age?) and you got yourself a damn good addition to a cup ready team.

The point I am trying to make, if he does get traded, be happy with the player you are getting and dont freak out about "over paying."

I'd love to have him on the Avs. The problem is, it's not just the cost to acquire but the cost to keep. The Avs, will likely need to re-make their 2nd line after the season with Kadri and Burakovsky likely becoming free agents. So someone younger might be a little more ideal. Still, I don't necessarily hate it but it all comes down to the numbers (AAV and term). If you ignore costs and risks, he might be the most ideal (save a center) piece the Avs can add.

 

[Appleyard]

I'd love to have him on the Avs. The problem is, it's not just the cost to acquire but the cost to keep. The Avs, will likely need to re-make their 2nd line after the season with Kadri and Burakovsky likely becoming free agents. So someone younger might be a little more ideal. Still, I don't necessarily hate it but it all comes down to the numbers (AAV and term). If you ignore costs and risks, he might be the most ideal (save a center) piece the Avs can add.

Tbf... he has played C the last 15 games... and been the Flyers best player over that time. Moved back there vs Tampa on 11-18.

15gp, 6g, 7a, 13p
2.30 5v5 P/60
+8.28 Corsi Rel
+7.36 ExGF Rel

over that time.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Tbf... he has played C the last 15 games... and been the Flyers best player over that time. Moved back there vs Tampa on 11-18.

15gp, 6g, 7a, 13p
2.30 5v5 P/60
+8.28 Corsi Rel
+7.36 ExGF Rel

over that time.

I've been made aware (by reading comments from Flyers fans) that he can play C, although he's most ideally suited for LW.

The Avs have Newhook. I kind of see Giroux as an insurance policy to help Newhook be successful and even accelerate his progress. That's a bonus, however and second to what he can do as an idividual player.

 

[1865]

So basically just Giroux for a late first. So tempting. Best offer I've seen so far. Tantalizing.

Not just a late first, but we'd have to give up our decent backup too. How can we say no?

 

[bert]

I can see Giroux in a leafs jersey if they can cleared enough salary space to fit Giroux in.
Leafs are not my favorite team but with Giroux in this lineup the top 9 fowards will probably be the best in the league.

So many better fits that make more sense. They have no cap space and don't have the disposable assets. Colorado and Minny are much better options.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The flyers aren't eating two dumps and retention for a likely late first for someone who will be arguably the best deadline rental in recent history.

Those "other parts" would be worth more than that first, in this scenario.

The cap hits are pending UFA right? And yes, the other parts would be have to negotiated

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I just don't see how. Would he improve the team... sure... If I'm giving up the type of assets, that Philadelphia should expect in return, I'm hoping for a guy that I can keep long-term. Realistically, we couldn't afford to resign him above $4 mil... even that, would be ridiculously tight. I can't think of why he'd sign for such a low value, nor should he.

There is always a way to make it work even if it is just a rental