Classic Wrestling Discussion: Part III & Wrestler Poll

[CDJ]

Aries popping up immediately and giving people the bird after taking John Morrison’s finisher comes to mind as one of the more unprofessional things I’ve ever seen

 

[BostonBob]

Oh hell yes !!!!!! I'm definitely going to watch this show.

from cagesideseats.com:

Old-school wrestling fans and those interested in the genre’s history will want to mark their calendars and set their DVRs for August 8, as PBS is set to premier an exciting new wrestling documentary.

Mid-Atlantic Gateway, a website dedicated to the history of Mid-Atlantic Championship Wrestling, shared the news on social media:

https://x.com/i/web/status/1811050614824009734

PBS finally made the show available on-line.

When Giants Walked Here | PBS

Follow the rise and fall of pro wrestling at Raleigh’s iconic Dorton Arena.

www.pbs.org

 

[CDJ]

Watching the Takeovers and that 6 man ladder match for the North American belt in 2018 was something else

Adam Cole vs Killian Dain vs Lars Sullivan vs Velveteen Dream vs Ricochet vs EC3

Kinda sucks Lars and Velveteen are bad ppl, they both had oodles of potential and had great performances

 

[Toothless Legend]

Watching the Takeovers and that 6 man ladder match for the North American belt in 2018 was something else

Adam Cole vs Killian Dain vs Lars Sullivan vs Velveteen Dream vs Ricochet vs EC3

Kinda sucks Lars and Velveteen are bad ppl, they both had oodles of potential and had great performances

To me that was the peak of talent in NXT. I was at a bachelor party trip in Austin with that match going on my laptop, and 3 non-wrestling fan friends couldn't pull themselves away from watching.

IMO Dream would have been a WWE World champion by now if not for his, ahem, life transgressions.

 

[CDJ]

To me that was the peak of talent in NXT. I was at a bachelor party trip in Austin with that match going on my laptop, and 3 non-wrestling fan friends couldn't pull themselves away from watching.

IMO Dream would have been a WWE World champion by now if not for his, ahem, life transgressions.

It’s funny you say that- my exact thought watching that was “wow this is a match I’d show non-fans to get them into it”

 

[Emperoreddy]

If anyone wants to watch a GOAT women's match that was also historical for free

 

[GKJ]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1829756425352200229

If anyone wants to watch a GOAT women's match that was also historical for free

Did they only just upload this?

 

[Emperoreddy]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1829756425352200229

Did they only just upload this?

From what i understand

 

[sabremike]

I didn't see it live, but Antonio Inoki vs the Great Antonio would make the list for me

Earthquake vs Koji Kitao from SWS. After the match fell apart after he stopped cooperating Kitao topped everything off by grabbing a mic and saying that wrestling was fake. It should come as no surprise that he was instantly fired.

Akira Maeda breaking a defenseless Riki Choshu's orbital bone with a shootkick.

Rikidozan double-crossing Kimura.

 

[boredmale]

I was going to start a new thread but maybe I will just post it here.

Why in the past 20+ years have they got rid of the simple 2 minute promo. When I was young my favorite part of wrestling was watching the wrestlers give there 1-2 minute spiel leaving me want to hear more, but as the new century was coming around they started to become longer and longer, many times making me hope that it would end soon. As the years went on they became even worse and more scripted. I get it that the WWe felt like scripted long promos was the way to go but why does it seem like every other wrestling organization feels the need to copy them. I do think there is a market out there for a wrestling company that goes back to unscripted 2 minute promos after a match of somebody telling us how they want to win the championship because it means they will have sex with hotter chicks and eat better quality steaks.

 

[CDJ]

Sucks Lars Sullivan is a shitty person, he really has been a huge standout in these NXT shows im rewatching. It’s like Snitsky and Lesnar had a baby

 

[sabremike]

I was going to start a new thread but maybe I will just post it here.

Why in the past 20+ years have they got rid of the simple 2 minute promo. When I was young my favorite part of wrestling was watching the wrestlers give there 1-2 minute spiel leaving me want to hear more, but as the new century was coming around they started to become longer and longer, many times making me hope that it would end soon. As the years went on they became even worse and more scripted. I get it that the WWe felt like scripted long promos was the way to go but why does it seem like every other wrestling organization feels the need to copy them. I do think there is a market out there for a wrestling company that goes back to unscripted 2 minute promos after a match of somebody telling us how they want to win the championship because it means they will have sex with hotter chicks and eat better quality steaks.

I think a lot of it has to do with the changing nature of the business where those were used to sell tickets in specific markets and as that was surpassed by PPV and TV as revenue drives it faded away. I 100% agree bringing them back would be a good idea.

 

[boredmale]

I think a lot of it has to do with the changing nature of the business where those were used to sell tickets in specific markets and as that was surpassed by PPV and TV as revenue drives it faded away. I 100% agree bringing them back would be a good idea.

Simple fact is you won't out WWe the WWe so best to find stuff that other fans want. While I do think there is a market for some of the stuff AEW is pushing that looks to be like 700k, they have to find other things the WWe might not be doing and add that as well. I think a huge portion of the former audience is sick of the 15+ minute soap opera'ish in ring bits and might prefer a more short and sweet simple approach to promos.

Beyond that most of the greatest moments in promo history were not written in the backroom by a bunch of writers it was just some creative person coming up with something on the spur of the moment. Would Writers today for instance come up with Austin 3:16 says I just whooped your ass

 

[sansabri]

so i'm watching this Japanese movie and

 

[Masked]

I was going to start a new thread but maybe I will just post it here.

Why in the past 20+ years have they got rid of the simple 2 minute promo. When I was young my favorite part of wrestling was watching the wrestlers give there 1-2 minute spiel leaving me want to hear more, but as the new century was coming around they started to become longer and longer, many times making me hope that it would end soon. As the years went on they became even worse and more scripted. I get it that the WWe felt like scripted long promos was the way to go but why does it seem like every other wrestling organization feels the need to copy them. I do think there is a market out there for a wrestling company that goes back to unscripted 2 minute promos after a match of somebody telling us how they want to win the championship because it means they will have sex with hotter chicks and eat better quality steaks.

Those still happen in Japan.

 

[Emperoreddy]

A lot of it is just how the presentation has changed. Way back in the day wrestling was largely house shows, occasional TV stuff, and then the big PPVs.

The advent of live weekly TV changed how you present your product. You can't just progress a year long story over life 6 segments and some short after match promos.

You need weekly content to make someone watch every week so you get your stars on way more often, longer promos, more involved storylines.

I question if a pure old school style weekly show which is 90% wrestling and just short promos would be able to carry an audience to stay on TV.

Personally I have always been surprised no one has decided to do more Lucha Underground type stuff where things are even more cinematic.

 

[boredmale]

You need weekly content to make someone watch every week so you get your stars on way more often, longer promos, more involved storylines.

I would argue how many wrestlers today would you consider to be stars? When you see guys on TV wining 50% or even say less then 75% of the time every other week it sort of devalues them when they lose 25-50% of the time. Beyond that you need a reason to care about them which even a 2 minute promo could do

Maybe I have an antiquated idea of what, who or how to make a star but the best way is to have a person constantly win for like 6+ months on TV while giving a little time to talk to get himself over.

And I do agree the way wrestling works today their is more emphasis on the tv shows being the prime source of generating revenue so it does change the way you have to do things, but surely there can be alternative ways to get people over in the 5+ hours a week of content ERA of wrestling.

At the end of the day I do think some wrestler the general audience(not hardcore one) views as a star wrestling some jabronee in a 3-5 minute squash match then giving a 2 minute post match interview saying how he is the best will attract more casual viewers then a 15 minute 4 star match by 2 great wrestlers who nobody beside the hardcore fans care about because both guys lose to often.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I would argue how many wrestlers today would you consider to be stars? When you see guys on TV wining 50% or even say less then 75% of the time every other week it sort of devalues them when they lose 25-50% of the time. Beyond that you need a reason to care about them which even a 2 minute promo could do

Maybe I have an antiquated idea of what, who or how to make a star but the best way is to have a person constantly win for like 6+ months on TV while giving a little time to talk to get himself over.

And I do agree the way wrestling works today their is more emphasis on the tv shows being the prime source of generating revenue so it does change the way you have to do things, but surely there can be alternative ways to get people over in the 5+ hours a week of content ERA of wrestling.

At the end of the day I do think some wrestler the general audience(not hardcore one) views as a star wrestling some jabronee in a 3-5 minute squash match then giving a 2 minute post match interview saying how he is the best will attract more casual viewers then a 15 minute 4 star match by 2 great wrestlers who nobody beside the hardcore fans care about because both guys lose to often.

I do agree that if you want someone to stand out and really get over with crowds and attract more eyeballs, that there needs to be some character work to get people invested in you beyond being a good worker.

 

[CDJ]

Ciampa-Gargano last man standing match at NXT Takeover Brooklyn 4 was so good

I think Ciampa might be the NXT goat

 

[Bondurant]

On 9/13 I was visiting family in Detroit and we went to a Tigers game with 2 cousins. One of them went to meet a friend that was there celebrating a wedding anniversary. We went to meet them and I and my other cousin were introduced to the couple. I cracked a joke about one cousin being built like Dick the Bruiser or Da Crusher. Then their eyes lit up and they started talking about Big Time Wrestling. Turns out the friends uncle worked for The Sheik and set-up the ring and chairs for television tapings. I thought mentioning Bruiser and Crusher would go over everyone.

 

[McGarnagle]

I've been binge watching the Reliving the War series on YouTube. One of my favorite things is seeing historic moments like Vince revealing himself as the higher power and seeing how it went directly head-to-head with a Ciclope and Silver King match on Nitro. Seems so ridiculous, especially considering Bischoff had spoiled the Higher Power earlier in the night.

And as much as people talk about the Fingerpoke of Doom as a turning point, the nWo Elite angle was fine and storylines were alright through March. WCW had wonkiness in execution of angels back to the fall of 98, but overall IMO it didn't go completely off the rails until Flair turned heel while beating Hogan in a nonsensical main event at Uncensored 99 in March. Everything after that is just unhinged and hotshotting.

You could make the argument that WCW booking was overall more coherent then WWF was between the Royal Rumble and WrestleMania (the IC title picture was particularly messy). But by the time Flair went heel and lost the title to heel DDP (who was massively over as a face and just can't off a sympathetic angle with Scott Steiner, and whose heel turn had no storyline buildup other than he just started being a jerk one day), only to have Sting win it on Nitro and lose it back and hour later, and Macho Man returning and having no coherent direction (he was simultaneously in a storyline where he'd interfere and attack heel Flair and face Nash at the same time), like it's insane.

 

[These Are The Days]

After a very long break I'm sort of back to my watch through. At the Smackdown before Mania 19.

My only thought is Raw is very good right now even by today's standards but Smackdown is in the golden age. I swear the only thing better is 1997 when Hart, Michaels and Taker wanted to kill each other and the bulk of 2001 prior to the invasion. My recollection assumes summer 2003 when Brock was champion was probably the best WWE ever was but we will have to see if it's as good as I remember



John Cena is currently my Tribal Chief and the peak of his heel run is magnificent

 

[These Are The Days]

Also Lesnar was very fortunate Paul Heyman came along and said "Hey Vince! Want to make millions of dollars? We have a Tyrannosaurus that can kill ANYBODY!!" and God does he ever.

A lot of these matches are borderline dangerous. I heard Kurt tell Joe Rogan once that Brock wasn't supposed to win the title at Mania and thaf Kurt was supposed to have a "Nice long reign" -which tells me probably til SummerSlam. And Brock broke his neck twice. And Bob Holly AND nearly did A Train too