Classic Wrestling Discussion: Part III & Wrestler Poll

[Edge]

Owen was a brilliant performer though, and a timeless one. His heel work - whether it be the more vicious stuff or the absurd stuff would have played in an era.

It felt like Owen was around forever, but it is easy to forget we lost him when he was only 32/33. I always felt that was the age when a lot of wrestlers hit that cross section of still having athletic ability, but also having the experience and smarts to really put something special together. In other words, he may have just been hitting his peak.

I think he would've been a main eventer against the likes of Jericho, Angle, Benoit, Eddie, etc. That 1999-2006 era would've been right up his alley and coincided with some peak performance years for Owen.

 

[joestevens29]

Is there any podcast out there that talks about why Demolition was dismantled?

Never really heard why.

 

[JackSlater]

Is there any podcast out there that talks about why Demolition was dismantled?

Never really heard why.

I recall that Prichard had an episode just about Demolition. I'd guess that the end of Demolition came up at some point.

 

[boredmale]

Is there any podcast out there that talks about why Demolition was dismantled?

Never really heard why.

From My Understanding Ax was injured so they brought in Crush to hide his injuries in 3 man tags. Soon Ax quit and Smash and Crush Demolition fizzled out(probably in part due to the Road Warriors coming to the WWF right around this time)

 

[Megahab]

From My Understanding Ax was injured so they brought in Crush to hide his injuries in 3 man tags. Soon Ax quit and Smash and Crush Demolition fizzled out(probably in part due to the Road Warriors coming to the WWF right around this time)

I always thought Demolition was different enough from the Road Warriors. It's the Powers of Pain that seemed like the Road Warriors rip off.

 

[JackSlater]

I always thought Demolition was different enough from the Road Warriors. It's the Powers of Pain that seemed like the Road Warriors rip off.

I could see Demolition being a Vince take on the Road Warriors though. Watched a 30 second tape of them and figured that he got the gist of it, or something like that. Powers of Pain are definitely a more similar tag team, though they started up before coming to WWF.

 

[Megahab]

I could see Demolition being a Vince take on the Road Warriors though. Watched a 30 second tape of them and figured that he got the gist of it, or something like that. Powers of Pain are definitely a more similar tag team, though they started up before coming to WWF.

Yeah I mean Demolition was definitely Vince's answer to the Road Warriors but I've heard people say they were a Road Warriors rip off. But I don't think they were similar enough to call it a rip off. Heavily influenced, yes. But different enough.

 

[JackSlater]

Yeah I mean Demolition was definitely Vince's answer to the Road Warriors but I've heard people say they were a Road Warriors rip off. But I don't think they were similar enough to call it a rip off. Heavily influenced, yes. But different enough.

I agree that Demolition isn't just a Road Warriors ripoff. Different look and quite different in ring.

 

[Bondurant]

So, apparently, a pair of Roddy Piper's boots (worn at WrestleMania I) are on display at MSG near section 115. I went to MSG in '19 for Rangers v Devils and was not aware. I am not pleased but have an excuse to return.

 

[John Price]

 

[Kaner9]

So, apparently, a pair of Roddy Piper's boots (worn at WrestleMania I) are on display at MSG near section 115. I went to MSG in '19 for Rangers v Devils and was not aware. I am not pleased but have an excuse to return.

I think I remember MSG has had other wrestling mementos on display sometimes. I never took the time to look tbh.

 

[Unholy Diver]

After JR and Conrad talked up the Flair/Funk match at Great American Bash 89, I thought I would check it out, haven't gotten to the main event yet but the show has not started out so hot

1st match was a 2 ring battle royal where you eliminated people by throwing them from the first ring into the 2nd, then the guys in the 2nd ring had another battle royal til there was one guy left in each ring, it finally works it way down to Sid in one ring and Dan Spivey in the other...The Skyscrapers are going to have to battle for the $50K dollar prize!!

Nope, Teddy Long comes down and says they will split the check and the plastic toy crown

2 matches later the Skyscrapers take on the Dynamic Dudes

I always hated when guys get double booked on the same card, seemed cheap or low budget to me

Flair and Funk are gonna have to work hard to make up for this undercard suckage

Ahh and I forgot to mention Paul E Dangerously vs Jim Cornette in a tuxedo match is still to come

 

[JackSlater]

After JR and Conrad talked up the Flair/Funk match at Great American Bash 89, I thought I would check it out, haven't gotten to the main event yet but the show has not started out so hot

1st match was a 2 ring battle royal where you eliminated people by throwing them from the first ring into the 2nd, then the guys in the 2nd ring had another battle royal til there was one guy left in each ring, it finally works it way down to Sid in one ring and Dan Spivey in the other...The Skyscrapers are going to have to battle for the $50K dollar prize!!

Nope, Teddy Long comes down and says they will split the check and the plastic toy crown

2 matches later the Skyscrapers take on the Dynamic Dudes

I always hated when guys get double booked on the same card, seemed cheap or low budget to me

Flair and Funk are gonna have to work hard to make up for this undercard suckage

Ahh and I forgot to mention Paul E Dangerously vs Jim Cornette in a tuxedo match is still to come

The Skyscrapers and the Dudes are both awful, but Flair and Funk did have good matches in the late 80s. Middle aged and crazy Funk was really good.

 

[EpochLink]

 

[These Are The Days]

Made it as far as October 1999 (actually now that I think of it, the night Droz was paralyzed) and X-Pac's "I belong in the land of the giants" thing is beyond annoying. Him and Kane are already awkward as hell as a tag team pairing and now this. Sheesh. Waiting for the Hardys to dump Gangrel too. That might be even weirder of a pairing.


Edit: I think I understand the "X-Pac heat" reference now

 

[These Are The Days]

My God fall of 1999 heading into Survivor Series is just f***ing lit boys. I've never been so sufficiently entertained by the product as much as I am now. Creative gave you one fail-proof gimmick after the next and let guys be themselves and get over. For example: WWE would never let anyone do what the Hardys have and it's a damn shame.

Heels act like actual heels, the babyfaces are electric on the mic and the product refuses to take itself seriously. Ho trains, Jericho coming out getting people's names wrong (per usual) the Holly's calling themselves super heavyweights and killing each other over nothing, Mankind spent how long getting slapped around by The Rock as a reluctant partner and Scotty 2 Hotty is doing the freaking worm.



Just unreal how much the product has lost touch these days. They literally gave you what you wanted every week

 

[These Are The Days]

And for what it's worth, I'm not seeing anything extraordinary about Haitch either. He's basically JBL without the "Ahhhhhhwwwwrrrrestling GAAAWWWWDDDD" and cowboy hat. Like I see why Raw did so well when he was on TV but it speaks more to the "people pay to watch a heel get his ass kicked" than anything else. He filled a role and did it well though.

Also, when Randy Orton dropped his infamous "Eddie's down there in hell" line I marked out. It's not that I dislike the Big Show/Bossman feud with the angle of his father having died of cancer, it's just too played out for shock value. You rarely see the same song played at a concert more than once and an encore. This feels like hearing it 6 times in a row.

 

[JackSlater]

My God fall of 1999 heading into Survivor Series is just f***ing lit boys. I've never been so sufficiently entertained by the product as much as I am now. Creative gave you one fail-proof gimmick after the next and let guys be themselves and get over. For example: WWE would never let anyone do what the Hardys have and it's a damn shame.

Heels act like actual heels, the babyfaces are electric on the mic and the product refuses to take itself seriously. Ho trains, Jericho coming out getting people's names wrong (per usual) the Holly's calling themselves super heavyweights and killing each other over nothing, Mankind spent how long getting slapped around by The Rock as a reluctant partner and Scotty 2 Hotty is doing the freaking worm.

Just unreal how much the product has lost touch these days. They literally gave you what you wanted every week

The way you're going through this is easily the best way to get a sense of that era, I'd say. As opposed to today when at best you'd want to watch a few clips rather than a continuous product. That isn't to say that anybody can go and watch week after week of attitude era raws and be immensely entertained, but there is a week to week coherence that you're describing that is lost when you just go back and watch a segment here and there. It was god to have a feeling of wanting to see what was coming next, expecting it to be good, and then having it actually be good.

And for what it's worth, I'm not seeing anything extraordinary about Haitch either. He's basically JBL without the "Ahhhhhhwwwwrrrrestling GAAAWWWWDDDD" and cowboy hat. Like I see why Raw did so well when he was on TV but it speaks more to the "people pay to watch a heel get his ass kicked" than anything else. He filled a role and did it well though.

To borrow his own line, Tri is pretty much the definition of a B+ player, and that's at his peak. People will try to throw out that he was the best wrestler in the world for a short time in 1999 or 2000 and it's crap. He was good in ring at his peak and was solid as a one note heel. Nothing more. Appropriate foil for the actual top guys of the time but his act, that of the generic bad guy heel, got very stale and he didn't have the talent (or desire) to really elevate other guys with any sort of regularity.

 

[Megahab]

The way you're going through this is easily the best way to get a sense of that era, I'd say. As opposed to today when at best you'd want to watch a few clips rather than a continuous product. That isn't to say that anybody can go and watch week after week of attitude era raws and be immensely entertained, but there is a week to week coherence that you're describing that is lost when you just go back and watch a segment here and there. It was god to have a feeling of wanting to see what was coming next, expecting it to be good, and then having it actually be good.



To borrow his own line, Tri is pretty much the definition of a B+ player, and that's at his peak. People will try to throw out that he was the best wrestler in the world for a short time in 1999 or 2000 and it's crap. He was good in ring at his peak and was solid as a one note heel. Nothing more. Appropriate foil for the actual top guys of the time but his act, that of the generic bad guy heel, got very stale and he didn't have the talent (or desire) to really elevate other guys with any sort of regularity.

If Triple H was a B+, who do you consider a A+ heel in the last, let's say, 20 years?

 

[JackSlater]

If Triple H was a B+, who do you consider a A+ heel in the last, let's say, 20 years?

Most recently The New Daniel Bryan. Lesnar almost all of the time as well. Heel Punk, 2008 Jericho.

 

[Megahab]

Most recently The New Daniel Bryan. Lesnar almost all of the time as well. Heel Punk, 2008 Jericho.

I wouldn't put any of those guys ahead of 1999-2001 Triple H if we're talking about star power. Lesnar may have a case but the others don't. But maybe you're just talking about how entertaining they were.

 

[JackSlater]

I wouldn't put any of those guys ahead of 1999-2001 Triple H if we're talking about star power. Lesnar may have a case but the others don't. But maybe you're just talking about how entertaining they were.

I'm talking about how good they were, not what they were pushed as.

 

[Megahab]

I'm talking about how good they were, not what they were pushed as.

Oh sorry, I thought by using the letter grades, you meant star power/impact.

 

[JackSlater]

Oh sorry, I thought by using the letter grades, you meant star power/impact.

Yeah the lines can get blurred a lot in wrestling. Sometimes people talk about something and you can't tell if they're talking about how something actually was or how it was presented. I should have thrown early Rated R Superstar Edge in my list as well. Great heel and a much needed breath of fresh air at the time in that he actually got booed against Cena.

 

[Unholy Diver]

Just watching AWA Super Sunday 1983 while working today and in the co-main event Hogan took on Nick Bockwinkle in a decent match between the wily vet and the hot new up and comer, Hogan was way over with the crowd and they did the old finish of reversing the Hogan win into a DQ giving the belt back to Bockwinkle. We have all heard the story of how Verne refusing to put the belt on Hogan due to him wanting a "good wrestler" as champ and also Verne pissed Hogan off by wanting a cut of his Japan money or something.

Watching this makes me wonder, had Verne not had his head up his ass, would we have pro wrestling as we know it? Would Vince and WWF/E been as successful if Hogan stayed with Verne as his top guy?

Hogan would surface in WWF just 9 months after Super Sunday, which the announcers were billing as the largest indoor wrestling show ever at that point, if Hogan stays in AWA does Hulkamania ever happen?

Sure, Hogan could have always jumped a year or two later but would it have still worked out so well for Vince? Besides Hogan, this card had Mean Gene, Bobby Heenan, Ken Patera, Jesse Ventura, Jim Brunzell, and a young "Beefcake" by the name of Dizzy Ed Boulder, who would all be joining Hogan in the Northeast before too long.

So, did Vince & Hulk create the wrestling boom or did Verne?