Proposal: Chychrun to St. Louis

[Heldig]

A sort of three-way trade. Miller for assets and then those assets + potential Canucks' assets(Rathbone, DiPietro, 2nd) for Chychrun.



Well, actually it would be cleared up by scrolling up. 4 posts up from the one you replied to actually.

So, in the NYR scenario, you trade Miller for Lundqvist, Kravtsov, 1st, 2nd then turn around and trade Lundqvist, Kravtsov, 1st, 2nd PLUS Rathbone and a 2nd for Chychrun?

 

[rt]

So, in the NYR scenario, you trade Miller for Lundqvist, Kravtsov, 1st, 2nd then turn around and trade Lundqvist, Kravtsov, 1st, 2nd PLUS Rathbone and a 2nd for Chychrun?

This is exactly what confused me.

 

[Peter Griffin]

So, in the NYR scenario, you trade Miller for Lundqvist, Kravtsov, 1st, 2nd then turn around and trade Lundqvist, Kravtsov, 1st, 2nd PLUS Rathbone and a 2nd for Chychrun?

It's not my proposal but that's what I took from that. Or some combination of pieces. Basically Vancouver acquires Chychrun by moving Miller for futures and than parlays those futures, along with some of their own, for Chychrun.

 

[rt]

It's not my proposal but that's what I took from that. Or some combination of pieces. Basically Vancouver acquires Chychrun by moving Miller for futures and than parlays those futures, along with some of their own, for Chychrun.

Seems a little convoluted and not terribly realistic.

Chychrun for Neighbours, Kostin/Perunovich, and a 1st feels more realistic. Add in Scandella for salary balancing and a 2nd from STL for the cost to balance salary, and that just seems like a real trade to me.

The consensus to my OP seems to be that AZ could do better. So I’m taking the condition off the 1st this year and adding next year’s 2nd.

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

So, in the NYR scenario, you trade Miller for Lundqvist, Kravtsov, 1st, 2nd then turn around and trade Lundqvist, Kravtsov, 1st, 2nd PLUS Rathbone and a 2nd for Chychrun?

does Miller have this kind of value?

and not sure Chychrun does either. that's too much IMO

 

[Peter Griffin]

Chychrun for Neighbours, Kostin/Perunovich, and a 1st feels more realistic. Add in Scandella for salary balancing and a 2nd from STL for the cost to balance salary, and that just seems like a real trade to me.

I agree the other trade was likely too convoluted to be realistic.

That said I can see JR and Co. having some interest in Chychrun if they feel either he or Quinn, who’s said he’s open to it, move to the right side.

If the Canucks moved Miller/Boeser in a deal with a later 1st coming back, I could perhaps see them offering that 1st as part of a package for Chychrun. Maybe something like 1st, Hoglander and Rathbone?

 

[rt]

Curious whether this is perceived as more fair to Arizona, or if it's still too generous to St. Louis, or if it's enough to tip it into too pricey:

To STL
Chychrun (30% retained)
Blake Speers (pro contract)

To ARI
Scandella (same aav as Chych @70%)
Scott Perunovich
Klim Kostin
Jake Neighbours
2022 STL 1st rounder (no conditions)

^ the consensus on the OP seems to be that AZ isn't getting enough. Is this enough? Is it too much? Essentially it's the same as the OP but Chychrun now gets retained down to 30% and STL has to add Perunovich for the trouble. Apart from that, it's the same.

 

[rt]

I agree the other trade was likely too convoluted to be realistic.

That said I can see JR and Co. having some interest in Chychrun if they feel either he or Quinn, who’s said he’s open to it, move to the right side.

If the Canucks moved Miller/Boeser in a deal with a later 1st coming back, I could perhaps see them offering that 1st as part of a package for Chychrun. Maybe something like 1st, Hoglander and Rathbone?

Is a NYR 1st, Hoglander and Rathbone so much better than a STL 1st, Neighbours, and Perunovich? I'm not so convinced...

 

[Peter Griffin]

Is a NYR 1st, Hoglander and Rathbone so much better than a STL 1st, Neighbours, and Perunovich? I'm not so convinced...

Would depend on what Arizona is looking to get in return I suppose. Hoglander is easily the most proven player of the bunch and still young at 21 and the 1st’s are basically a wash. Perunovich and Rathbone are pretty similar with Perunovich maybe holding a bit more value at this point.

But anyway it was just an example of something I could see Canucks’ management looking into if they move Miller. I’m not convinced they’d even move Hog but you have to give to get.

 

[rt]

Would depend on what Arizona is looking to get in return I suppose. Hoglander is easily the most proven player of the bunch and the 1st’s are basically a wash. Perunovich and Rathbone are pretty similar with Perunovich maybe holding a bit more value at this point.

But anyway it was just an example of something I could see Canucks’ management looking into if they move Miller. I’m not convinced they’d even move Hog but you have to give to get.

I like Hoglander a lot but I like Neighbours a lot, too. Maybe I'm crazy, but I actually find the choice to be a tough one.

 

[Peter Griffin]

I like Hoglander a lot but I like Neighbours a lot, too. Maybe I'm crazy, but I actually find the choice to be a tough one.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that it’s a better offer, just something I could maybe see Vancouver considering depending on other moves they make. They may also have zero interest in Chychrun.

 

[PocketNines]

Seems a little convoluted and not terribly realistic.

Chychrun for Neighbours, Kostin/Perunovich, and a 1st feels more realistic. Add in Scandella for salary balancing and a 2nd from STL for the cost to balance salary, and that just seems like a real trade to me.

The consensus to my OP seems to be that AZ could do better. So I’m taking the condition off the 1st this year and adding next year’s 2nd.

No thanks, we can just offload him ourselves for whatever we can get for Scandella separately if this is an issue. Adding that 2d for that reason made it less of a real trade.

I get that "consensus" of people is telling you that you can get more. It's not serious consensus. It's people throwing out ludicrous things like the Canuck tangent but not actually making real offers that would give us reason to up our bid. We aren't going to just have a bid-against-ourselves thread. The max offer which I countered is literally giving you three significant prospects of Arizona's choice in return for the skill downgrade of an NHL veteran at the same position over basically the same time period. This return is for a player whose upside if he stays will not help Arizona win anything and then will very likely leave before the rebuild has worked. Now you want a 2d for having to take that replacement player? If that's really an issue then we can sell him elsewhere but it just seems like you're trying to push it as far as it can go and see which Blues fans stay with it, but it's on the general forum and you've already engaged on the Blues forum in the trade thread. So, is it the leverage of other team input you want to goad us into higher offers?

 

[rt]

No thanks, we can just offload him ourselves for whatever we can get for Scandella separately if this is an issue. Adding that 2d for that reason made it less of a real trade.

I get that "consensus" of people is telling you that you can get more. It's not serious consensus. It's people throwing out ludicrous things like the Canuck tangent but not actually making real offers that would give us reason to up our bid. We aren't going to just have a bid-against-ourselves thread. The max offer which I countered is literally giving you three significant prospects of Arizona's choice in return for the skill downgrade of an NHL veteran at the same position over basically the same time period. This return is for a player whose upside if he stays will not help Arizona win anything and then will very likely leave before the rebuild has worked. Now you want a 2d for having to take that replacement player? If that's really an issue then we can sell him elsewhere but it just seems like you're trying to push it as far as it can go and see which Blues fans stay with it, but it's on the general forum and you've already engaged on the Blues forum in the trade thread. So, is it the leverage of other team input you want to goad us into higher offers?

Well, no. Because that wouldn't work. Because this isn't real.

I'm in the Blues forum, and I got an idea there of what would work for them. It's basically this OP.

I'm in the Yotes forum, and I got an idea there of what would work for them. It's basically the last post, minus the retention.

I started this thread to get a better idea of where "neutral" fans would come down on it. Likely somewhere in the middle. Which I believe is essentially my last post.

So to summarize, I think it's something like this:

Many Blues fans are open to Chychrun for Scandella, Kostin, Neighbors and a 1st.

Many Coyotes fans are open to Chychrun for Scandella, Perunovich, Kostin, Neighbors, and a 1st.

And I'm trying to see what "many neutral fans" would say is fair. I'm guessing it's somehwere in the middle of those two. Which I suspect retaining 30% on Chychrun would take care of.

What I am NOT trying to do is say that Yotes fans are smarter or more correct than Blues fans. Or that Blues fans are smarter and more correct than neutral fans. Or that ANY of us really have a great, authoritative handle on how any of this will actually shake-out.

My wife took the kids on a bike ride around the neighborhood, and I've got a bum leg from a recent surgery. So I'm just having a beer on the coach, and killing time talking hockey with strangers on the internet for fun. Haha.

EDIT: Also - Blues fans on HF seem to be among the most sane, intelligent, and easy to deal with of any fanbase. I also really like the Blues organization, and I hope the Blues win the Cup this year. Before the Yotes moved to AZ when I was in 5th grade and I became an instant die-hard Yotes fan, I was Blues "fan" first. Meaning I loved Brett Hull, and had Blues merchandise like t-shirts, and pencils, and stickers and stuff. Even though I watched them play only on national TV, and via Sportscenter and NHL 2Nite clips.

 

[PocketNines]

As the Blues roster is currently they will have 10.3 million in cap space with 14 players signed after this year. They’re never filling 9 spots for 10 million dollars.

It kind of sucks but Tarasenko will definitely be traded. I think Sundqvist will be traded at some point too. That would free up 10.25 million.

It’s obvious to everyone the Blues need to upgrade LHD. Scandella has to go and we’ll see what Army does.

I think Tarasenko logically gets traded in the offseason to create room and to get a 1st, but if he were to remain on the roster and they try to keep Husso then Perron would be the odd man out unless he wants to go the Bozak route. It's unclear to me how Perron will finish the season, he has looked like two different players to me after covid and another concussion.

 

[PocketNines]

Well, no. Because that wouldn't work. Because this isn't real.

I'm in the Blues forum, and I got an idea there of what would work for them. It's basically this OP.

I'm in the Yotes forum, and I got an idea there of what would work for them. It's basically the last post, minus the retention.

I started this thread to get a better idea of where "neutral" fans would come down on it. Likely somewhere in the middle. Which I believe is essentially my last post.

So to summarize, I think it's something like this:

Many Blues fans are open to Chychrun for Scandella, Kostin, Neighbors and a 1st.

Many Coyotes fans are open to Chychrun for Scandella, Perunovich, Kostin, Neighbors, and a 1st.

And I'm trying to see what "many neutral fans" would say is fair. I'm guessing it's somehwere in the middle of those two. Which I suspect retaining 30% on Chychrun would take care of.

What I am NOT trying to do is say that Yotes fans are smarter or more correct than Blues fans. Or that Blues fans are smarter and more correct than neutral fans. Or that ANY of us really have a great, authoritative handle on how any of this will actually shake-out.

My wife took the kids on a bike ride around the neighborhood, and I've got a bum leg from a recent surgery. So I'm just having a beer on the coach, and killing time talking hockey with strangers on the internet for fun. Haha.

EDIT: Also - Blues fans on HF seem to be among the most sane, intelligent, and easy to deal with of any fanbase. I also really like the Blues organization, and I hope the Blues win the Cup this year.

Going from "our best two prospects and a first" to "our best three prospects and a first" is a major jump for any organization in the NHL. Imagine how incredible the real competitor offers on the real table would have to be for the Blues to add that. People just telling you their gut tells them you could get more who are not even addressing the plain fact that it is a major jump. I think it's so major a jump to ask for that extra prospect that I cannot imagine Doug Armstrong actually doing it.

 

[Nucker101]

Why not just ask for another pick over Kostin? Is it because he’s big? He seems pretty meh as one of the key pieces of a Chychrun deal. Or take Perunovich and flip him if he’s too small/soft for your liking, I bet he has more trade value than Kostin.

 

[rt]

Going from "our best two prospects and a first" to "our best three prospects and a first" is a major jump for any organization in the NHL. Imagine how incredible the real competitor offers on the real table would have to be for the Blues to add that. People just telling you their gut tells them you could get more who are not even addressing the plain fact that it is a major jump. I think it's so major a jump to ask for that extra prospect that I cannot imagine Doug Armstrong actually doing it.

Well, if Perunovich and Kostin are two of your best three prospects, I’m sure you wouldn’t mind swapping the two of them out for Bolduc alone?

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Well, if Perunovich and Kostin are two of your best three prospects, I’m sure you wouldn’t mind swapping the two of them out for Bolduc alone?

Neighbors, Bolduc, 1st, Scandella? I mean. I'd probably still do that. I truly think Chychrun has a chance of being that missing piece.

 

[rt]

Neighbors, Bolduc, 1st, Scandella? I mean. I'd probably still do that. I truly think Chychrun has a chance of being that missing piece.

I would, too. I’ve talked ad nauseam about my issues with Bolduc but as the 3rd asset in the deal I prefer him to both Perunovich and Kostin. Much lower chance of success but much higher upside if he makes it.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

I would, too. I’ve talked ad nauseam about my issues with Bolduc but as the 3rd asset in the deal I prefer him to both Perunovich and Kostin. Much lower chance of success but much higher upside if he makes it.

I'm pretty cool with any combo of Neighbors, Bolduc, Kostin, and Perunovich.

Neighbors high floor limited ceiling
Bolduc high ceiling but a lower floor
Kostin good ceiling and floor, just currently stuck behind the Blues pretty crazy top 9.
Perunovich top 4 PPQB potential, but is currently stuck behind Krug.

 

[PocketNines]

Well, if Perunovich and Kostin are two of your best three prospects, I’m sure you wouldn’t mind swapping the two of them out for Bolduc alone?

I don't know if you saw, but I literally posted an offer where you would get to pick the prospects you want.

 

[rt]

I don't know if you saw, but I literally posted an offer where you would get to pick the prospects you want.

Haha. You win! I surrender!

Chychrun for Scandella, Neighbours, Bolduc and the 2022 1st works for me. If I’ve declined it in the past, I was wrong for doing so. And you were right. Let’s get the trade done early tomorrow morning so Chychrun and Scandella have time to pack.

 

[PocketNines]

Haha. You win! I surrender!

Chychrun for Scandella, Neighbours, Bolduc and the 2022 1st works for me. If I’ve declined it in the past, I was wrong for doing so. And you were right. Let’s get the trade done early tomorrow morning so Chychrun and Scandella have time to pack.

No worries. Not that it affects much about this offer (it has to be him regardless) but I am curious what you'd want to do with Scandella if you got him. Keep because you need some vets to play? Or flip for anything you can get? Or play out the season and decide in the summer?

 

[Linkens Mastery]

No worries. Not that it affects much about this offer (it has to be him regardless) but I am curious what you'd want to do with Scandella if you got him. Keep because you need some vets to play? Or flip for anything you can get? Or play out the season and decide in the summer?

Scandella could be pretty nice for them to hit cap floor. And he's definitely a NHL level defender as well.

 

[rt]

No worries. Not that it affects much about this offer (it has to be him regardless) but I am curious what you'd want to do with Scandella if you got him. Keep because you need some vets to play? Or flip for anything you can get? Or play out the season and decide in the summer?

I don’t know that he’s flippable. I’d be fine with just keeping him. He can either play his butt off to become more attractive to a contender (Kessel), or make damn sure he’s a good leader and solid character presence so he can extend his career and avoid buyout/burying (Ladd). Either way is good.