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Player Discussion Christian Dvorak Part 2

Essenege said:
If he accepts Evans deal do you sign him?

I would in a heartbeat. When a line is this good at 5v5, you don’t touch it. Gally and Andy are machinal players, they like to play the same way every shift, now that you’ve find a recipe that works for them after 2 years, don’t swap Dvo for a rookie C for god’s sake. Unnecessary risk.

The last time we had a line with better 5v5 numbers was Gally-Danault-Tatar. We all remember what our offense looked like after Danault/tatar walked.

The difference this time is that our « low IQ possession line » is our 3rd line which is perfect.

And at 3mil Dvo would be easily tradeable if we want to make room later on.
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Gotta be had cheaper than Evans but your overall point remains
 
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Essenege said:
If he accepts Evans deal do you sign him?

I would in a heartbeat. When a line is this good at 5v5, you don’t touch it. Gally and Andy are machinal players, they like to play the same way every shift, now that you’ve find a recipe that works for them after 2 years, don’t swap Dvo for a rookie C for god’s sake. Unnecessary risk.

The last time we had a line with better 5v5 numbers was Gally-Danault-Tatar. We all remember what our offense looked like after Danault/tatar walked.

The difference this time is that our « low IQ possession line » is our 3rd line which is perfect.

And at 3mil Dvo would be easily tradeable if we want to make room later on.
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What 5v5 numbers are you talking about? Dvorak is below 50% on the season in both SAT and Goals, now he is starting most shifts in the Dzone so it's not the end of the world or anything but it's average at best.
 
This ended up being a much better season than anyone expected after the beginning. It's wonderful to see how this pack is fighting for the playoff spot even without a true second line. But I'd avoid rewarding too many bottom-6 players. It's nice to see our very disappointing Bergevin Special Line putting on an effort, but they need to make a room for Newhook and Dach when they're replaced by Demidov and hopefully a brand new 2C.

Dvorak has been a major disappoinment for most of his tenure in Montreal. In my opinion Dvorak and Armia do not deserve extensions for showing up at the end of their contracts.
 
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The way he's playing lately, you can bet he's going to get another nhl contract this summer.

But it won't be here in MTL.
 
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Hoochi Papa said:
This ended up being a much better season than anyone expected after the beginning. It's wonderful to see how this pack is fighting for the playoff spot even without a true second line. But I'd avoid rewarding too many bottom-6 players. It's nice to see our very disappointing Bergevin Special Line putting on an effort, but they need to make a room for Newhook and Dach when they're replaced by Demidov and hopefully a brand new 2C.

Dvorak has been a major disappoinment for most of his tenure in Montreal. In my opinion Dvorak and Armia do not deserve extensions for showing up at the end of their contracts.
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You are providing an example of exactly how to not run a team or any business.

You invest in future returns and do not throw away assets that have finally started to benefit you due to concerns about past values. Just the same as you don't keep past assets that are no longer valuable just because of their past value.

I don't think they will keep Dvorak with Beck and Kapanen banging on the door but Armia should be seriously considered if he is willing to sign a team friendly deal. He is playing hurt right now but he is a tremendous penalty killer and has great chemistry with Evans. He is also a valuable playoff performer who may not score a ton but he is a possession driver and creates a ton of turnovers.
 
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Estimated_Prophet said:
You are providing an example of exactly how to not run a team or any business.

You invest in future returns and do not throw away assets that have finally started to benefit you due to concerns about past values. Just the same as you don't keep past assets that are no longer valuable just because of their past value.

I don't think they will keep Dvorak with Beck and Kapanen banging on the door but Armia should be seriously considered if he is willing to sign a team friendly deal. He is playing hurt right now but he is a tremendous penalty killer and has great chemistry with Evans. He is also a valuable playoff performer who may not score a ton but he is a possession driver and creates a ton of turnovers.
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Habs already invested once in Armia based on his future returns. 3/4 of those years weren't exactly great. One might say you shouldn't invest on contract years either. With a truly team friendly deal, sure. But he already mailed it in once, so he comes with a risk. It's not like he just learned to play.
 
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Essenege said:
If he accepts Evans deal do you sign him?

I would in a heartbeat. When a line is this good at 5v5, you don’t touch it. Gally and Andy are machinal players, they like to play the same way every shift, now that you’ve find a recipe that works for them after 2 years, don’t swap Dvo for a rookie C for god’s sake. Unnecessary risk.

The last time we had a line with better 5v5 numbers was Gally-Danault-Tatar. We all remember what our offense looked like after Danault/tatar walked.

The difference this time is that our « low IQ possession line » is our 3rd line which is perfect.

And at 3mil Dvo would be easily tradeable if we want to make room later on.
Click to expand...
I would focus on a legitimate 2C, and you have to be careful not to clog up center ice for some youngsters like Beck.

I think there's only room for one of Evans and dvorak.
 
JianYang said:
I would focus on a legitimate 2C, and you have to be careful not to clog up center ice for some youngsters like Beck.

I think there's only room for one of Evans and dvorak.
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To get that 2C we would likely need to give up guys like beck, kappanen, etc at the very least
 
HabzSauce said:
To get that 2C we would likely need to give up guys like beck, kappanen, etc at the very least
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Even in the off chance those guys are gone for the 2C, you still have Suzuki, the 2nd line C, dach and Evans, with other prospects such as Hage and maybe flo jo looking for a spot in the next couple years or so.

I don't see a need to lock up dvo long term. The priority is 2C right now and they have already committed to Evans on the lower end.
 
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JianYang said:
Even in the off chance those guys are gone for the 2C, you still have Suzuki, the 2nd line C, dach and Evans, with other prospects such as Hage and maybe flo jo looking for a spot in the next couple years or so.

I don't see a need to lock up dvo long term. The priority is 2C right now and they have already committed to Evans on the lower end.
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2 Years of Dvo is not long tho. Gives us reliability next year at least and then we can always trade him if we need to make room.

I Do see Habs making at least one move this summer so guys we think are locks like newhook roy, etc might be gone and now all of a sudden there's more open spots on the team
 
HabzSauce said:
2 Years of Dvo is not long tho. Gives us reliability next year at least and then we can always trade him if we need to make room.

I Do see Habs making at least one move this summer so guys we think are locks like newhook roy, etc might be gone and now all of a sudden there's more open spots on the team
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Guys in his age bracket going to ufa typically don't sign 2 years unless there is almost no demand for the player.

He will find term like Evans did.
 
HabzSauce said:
Would Dvo accept a 2 year deal? Pay him around 4M?
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2? No. If they’re gonna delay beck or Kap to C, then keep it to 1 year. Also, I’d like to give that rookie C the opportunity to play between Gally and Andy for a season, at least. Good experience. 2 yr precludes that.

1? It depends. Is the new 2c a reliable LH faceoff guy? Are the kids ready? Is Newhook still here or traded? Possibly only 2 of dvo, newhook, Armia , beck and kap will stay.

If 1 year, $ doesn’t matter so much.
 
Hoochi Papa said:
Habs already invested once in Armia based on his future returns. 3/4 of those years weren't exactly great. One might say you shouldn't invest on contract years either. With a truly team friendly deal, sure. But he already mailed it in once, so he comes with a risk. It's not like he just learned to play.
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Well it’s hard to evaluate a playoff performer when you are tanking , don’t you think ?
 
tazsub3 said:
Well it’s hard to evaluate a playoff performer when you are tanking , don’t you think ?
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What does that mean, that you can't evaluate Armia because he only disappointed in the regular season?

Should he be used as a designated LTIR for the playoffs like Kucherov or Stone?
 
Hoochi Papa said:
Habs already invested once in Armia based on his future returns. 3/4 of those years weren't exactly great. One might say you shouldn't invest on contract years either. With a truly team friendly deal, sure. But he already mailed it in once, so he comes with a risk. It's not like he just learned to play.
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Your take is devastatingly simple and clear but some people prefer to make things complicated.

Facts as I see them:
The bottom6ers churn often on every team
Guaranteed contracts punish teams for relying on inconsistent and inconsistently available (injury prone) players.
To maintain the energy and vitality of a roster, some turnover of role players is not just wanted but necessary (additionally: it is easier to turnover bottom6ers)
Joel Armia will be 32 when (if) he signs his next NHL contract
Players have been known to decline in their early 30s
Armia's performance and availability over the tenure of his current contract has been disappointing
--

The above largely applies to Dvorak as well but with the caveat that Dvorak is 29, plays C, and the Habs will be down at least 1 NHL-level C so that makes things a tiny bit interesting... but not really. We want to get faster, stronger, bigger, more dynamic -- the best roster spots to churn through are those where 20-30pt players play, as their competitors on the NHL market are plentiful.
 
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tazsub3 said:
Well it’s hard to evaluate a playoff performer when you are tanking , don’t you think ?
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Playoff beast Joel Armia scores at a 30pt/season pace in the playoffs. He is already past his prime, so I don't see the point if deferring to his playoff production if he's not the same player he was in his last playoff series. He's allegedly injured right now.

Doesn't it make sense to replace Armia with a younger, quicker, more explosive player? It's not like his production or availability will be hard to replace. The FA market and the trade market will have bottom6 players who can put up 30pts/season with 15min of icetime/gp.
 
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