Player Discussion Chris Tierney (C)

[Ice-Tray]

There's a timing to trade Tierney and the longer you wait, the harder it will be. Like if he comes with a longer term contract on UFA years, it's not the same outlook. At some point, we need to move bodies that are not or should not be part of our longer-term plans (and IMO Tierney is one of those guys)

Who are the 5 guys you're talking about?

Batherson? He already played in the NHL and if you put him with NHL talent, it could go very well. He's still developing but what he is doing in the AHL at such a young age is exceptional. It bodes well for his future. Can't see him busting

Norris? Do you see this guy bust? Personally, I don't and see him as a better player than White for example. IMO he's the kind of guy that always get better and better.

Balcers? We already saw him last year and he really didn't look out of place. He's further in his development and despite missing time with injury to start the season, he's killing it in the AHL. Another guy I really don't see busting.

Formenton? Just his speed is elite at the NHL level already, other parts of his game are still developing. He can get under people's skin and I think his playmaking is underrated. He seems to be capable of developing a scoring touch. Can't see him be less than a 3rd liner.

2020 first? This upcoming draft is among the best ever and with either the Sens 1st or Sharks 1st, we'll probably get a high pick who will become our best forward (this draft is forward heavy). No idea yet who it will be but I can't see the Sens screwing up on that pick. There's rarely a top-12 that strong

JBD/Thomson? Sure, those 2 are the most obscure at this point but things are looking promising for both at the moment. We could survive with just one making it too because there's already depth with Chabot, Brannstrom, Wolanin, Zaitsev, DeMelo, Lajoie and Jaros who we all have seen at the NHL level already.

Also, 2022-23 is in 2.5 years so a lot of things will happen by then and lot of development time until then. I'm just giving you an idea of a possible line-up we could have by then.

But even just now, you think that none of Batherson, Norris, Balcers, Formenton, Abramov, Chlapik or Davidsson are ready to graduate? Even Logan Brown who could benefit to not have a guy like Tierney in the way?

If we were not talking about Tierney but any of Pageau, Brown or even Duclair, then my stance would be different. But we're talking about Chris Tierney. It doesn't stress me at all to not have him in the line-up.

Remember, I am not trying to win now, but I certainly want to start winning as soon as possible, starting next year and be able to stay in the playoffs race all year. We just need a mega big draft in June and we'll be ready to go. It might take time but in today's NHL, you don't have 5-10 years to rebuild. You have to compete while your best talent is young and cheaper.

I get the timing aspect, which is why I’m not married to either outcome. I also believe that we shouldn’t not be taking any steps backward from now on in terms of skill on the roster.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

I don't like Tierney, but he's produced consistently now for three years in a row, he certainly has some value to him and I think we should capitalize before he gets lost in the glut of middle 6ers that we possibly might have with our upcoming prospects.

For those that feel he's almost worthless and should be traded for a 3rd, I have a feeling you'd all be complaining/blaming PD about the return if that happened.

He's cost controlled for another year, there's no way we don't get a second+ for this guy.

 

[GCK]

I guess we need to give Brown a shot next year so we will likely have Norris Brown White Tierney and Anisimov down the middle while 3OA starts on the wing. I’d keep Arty Party and use Tierney at the draft as ammo to move up or get some D depth. Tierney is useful but doesn’t really fit. I like Whites skating better as a 3LC. Maybe something with 33 or the NYI pick if it’s in the 20s or next year for Pulock.

Maybe ?

 

[JD1]

I guess we need to give Brown a shot next year so we will likely have Norris Brown White Tierney and Anisimov down the middle while 3OA starts on the wing. I’d keep Arty Party and use Tierney at the draft as ammo to move up or get some D depth. Tierney is useful but doesn’t really fit. I like Whites skating better as a 3LC. Maybe something with 33 or the NYI pick if it’s in the 20s or next year for Pulock.

Maybe ?

Tierney's not going anywhere. This team really needs to create a culture of having to make the team, no gifted spots. Tierney is a decent NHLer. And his presence should make the other guys push harder. Ifhis presence doesn't make the other guys push harder, they are the wrong guys.

 

[Sensung]

The sooner Tierney is gone, the better.

Let some other team overpay for the inflated stats he put up being gifted top 6 playing time.

 

[Micklebot]

Tierney's not going anywhere. This team really needs to create a culture of having to make the team, no gifted spots. Tierney is a decent NHLer. And his presence should make the other guys push harder. Ifhis presence doesn't make the other guys push harder, they are the wrong guys.

I've never been a fan of Tierney, though I do find people around here are too hard on him, but I tend to agree with you here. Ideal world, Tierney gets pushed down the lineup by our prospects like Brown, Norris, White, ect. but until they do, he still has a place on this team.

 

[JD1]

The sooner Tierney is gone, the better.

Let some other team overpay for the inflated stats he put up being gifted top 6 playing time.

He's not being gifted anything nor are his stats inflated. He just is what he is. His ice time stats have increased every year he's been in the league. His last year in SJ he got 16 minutes a game and posted 40 points. Last year he got 17:11 a game. His ice time has gone up a few ticks since his last year in SJ.

You don't like him because he was acquired in the package for your boy Karlsson

I do agree we'll be better off when he is gone, but that will happen only when we have better players, if it happens

 

[Sensung]

He's not being gifted anything nor are his stats inflated. He just is what he is. His ice time stats have increased every year he's been in the league. His last year in SJ he got 16 minutes a game and posted 40 points. Last year he got 17:11 a game. His ice time has gone up a few ticks since his last year in SJ.

You don't like him because he was acquired in the package for your boy Karlsson

I do agree we'll be better off when he is gone, but that will happen only when we have better players, if it happens

Name 3 other teams he’d be a top 2 C on?

His stats are inflated from the ice time this terrible roster gifts him.

The sooner he is gone, the better. Let some other team overpay and give the ice time to our prospects.

 

[Blotto71]

Tierney's not going anywhere. This team really needs to create a culture of having to make the team, no gifted spots. Tierney is a decent NHLer. And his presence should make the other guys push harder. Ifhis presence doesn't make the other guys push harder, they are the wrong guys.

Who has been gifted a spot? There are guys that are there for a lack of capable bodies, but that's not gifting anyone a spot. Ask Logan Brown's agent what he thinks of the Sens and how guys "earn" NHL time.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Lol at all this talk of Tierneys inflated ice time and stays when a large portion of it is PK, or at ES flanked by guys who can’t score. Take away his PP points and he’s still a 35-40 pt guy.

Some people are simply incapable of having a level headed discussion about this guy. He can score with bad players, he can score on the PK, he can swallow tough minutes and not get caved in... he’s a fine NHLer. Not exceptional, not irreplaceable, nothing special, but he’s competent and we simply do not have 12 competent NHL forwards at this time. He is not holding anyone back, because he can succeed in roles that we would crucify Smith for putting a young guy in.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

The sooner Tierney is gone, the better.

Let some other team overpay for the inflated stats he put up being gifted top 6 playing time.

not everyone puts up solid numbers in top 6 roles lol its not automatic

 

[Sensung]

not everyone puts up solid numbers in top 6 roles lol its not automatic

Correct.
Tierney 171st in PPG for NHL forwards, 75th amoungst C’s.

.52 ppg is not solid numbers for a top 6 player, but certainly more than he’d put up with less ice time on a real NHL roster.

 

[Sensung]

Lol at all this talk of Tierneys inflated ice time and stays when a large portion of it is PK, or at ES flanked by guys who can’t score. Take away his PP points and he’s still a 35-40 pt guy.

Some people are simply incapable of having a level headed discussion about this guy. He can score with bad players, he can score on the PK, he can swallow tough minutes and not get caved in... he’s a fine NHLer. Not exceptional, not irreplaceable, nothing special, but he’s competent and we simply do not have 12 competent NHL forwards at this time. He is not holding anyone back, because he can succeed in roles that we would crucify Smith for putting a young guy in.

Tierney was 3rd on the Sens in forward ice time
He had approx 1 min PP time/gm and 2.20PK time per game.

He’s the definition of meh and will never again see at top 2C role with any other franchise.

Let someone else pay him. Give his spot to a prospect that may develop into a true top 6 player.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Correct.
Tierney 171st in PPG for NHL forwards, 75th amoungst C’s.

.52 ppg is not solid numbers for a top 6 player, but certainly more than he’d put up with less ice time on a real NHL roster.

seems chill to me. what do you want to do with the guy. hes literally perfect for us. decent money gets us to the floor an hes actually serviceable.

what is his ES time on ice among forwards?

 

[Sensung]

seems chill to me. what do you want to do with the guy. hes literally perfect for us. decent money gets us to the floor an hes actually serviceable.

what is his ES time on ice among forwards?

40th...producing 75th results for C’s

71st for forwards...producing 171st in ppg

 

[Sensung]

40th...producing 75th results for C’s

71st for forwards...producing 171st in ppg

He’s not good and should be moved to open up a spot for the prospects. Let someone else overpay.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Tierney was 3rd on the Sens in forward ice time
He had approx 1 min PP time/gm and 2.20PK time per game.

He’s the definition of meh and will never again see at top 2C role with any other franchise.

Let someone else pay him. Give his spot to a prospect that may develop into a true top 6 player.

seems chill to me. what do you want to do with the guy. hes literally perfect for us. decent money gets us to the floor an hes actually serviceable.

what is his ES time on ice among forwards?

Tierney was 18th on our team in PPTOI per game and played slightly more at ES than Nick Paul. He starts in the defensive zone almost 60% of the time, is our best remaining fwd in terms of SH goals against, is our best remaining C in faceoff percent... he's not a guy I would commit to longterm (unless he really sacrifices dollars to stay here) but he's not a guy who you rush to move just so Josh Norris can take his minutes. We already moved Pageau, Anisimov is likely to regress, Paul is still a huge wildcard, White is still a huge wildcard... there's no pressing need to move him, unless the right offer comes our way.

 

[Sensung]

Tierney was 18th on our team in PPTOI per game and played slightly more at ES than Nick Paul. He starts in the defensive zone almost 60% of the time, is our best remaining fwd in terms of SH goals against, is our best remaining C in faceoff percent... he's not a guy I would commit to longterm (unless he really sacrifices dollars to stay here) but he's not a guy who you rush to move just so Josh Norris can take his minutes. We already moved Pageau, Anisimov is likely to regress, Paul is still a huge wildcard, White is still a huge wildcard... there's no pressing need to move him, unless the right offer comes our way.

The team is going nowhere next season, so stop chasing points in the standings and prioritize development opportunities.

Brown and Norris need a legitimate look and we already have White to fill 3C role with Pinto on the horizon. We are likely to grab a C at 3OA.

Tierney is superfluous and should be shipped out.

 

[JD1]

Name 3 other teams he’d be a top 2 C on?

His stats are inflated from the ice time this terrible roster gifts him.

The sooner he is gone, the better. Let some other team overpay and give the ice time to our prospects.

He's not gifted anything. His last year in SJ he got 16:00 of ice.

His first year in Ottawa he got 17:02

Last year he got 17:11

He's hardly seen an ice time explosion since his move to Ottawa. And he's certainly not holding anyone back. Someone needs to rise up and take his ice time and the day that happens we'll be better for it.

In the meantime he was 86th amongst Cs in the league in points per 60 with 700 minutes played at even strength. That places him as a 3 C productivity wise and he was 62nd amongst Cs for ice time at even strength. The points numbers are hardly surprising given our team's overall lack of offence

 

[Sensung]

In the meantime he was 86thamongst Cs in the league in points per 60 with 700 minutes played at even strength. That places him as a 3 C productivity wise and he was 62ndamongst Cs for ice time at even strength. The points numbers are hardly surprising given our team's overall lack of offence

Thanks for pointing out that he is underproducing for the ice time he is being gifted.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

The team is going nowhere next season, so stop chasing points in the standings and prioritize development opportunities.

Brown and Norris need a legitimate look and we already have White to fill 3C role with Pinto on the horizon. We are likely to grab a C at 3OA.

Tierney is superfluous and should be shipped out.

I think you fully missed the point here. You dont develop players by handing them in Tierneys role. Its not an easy one or a confidence-building one. Players like Tierney insulate young, inexperienced players until they are ready to seize a larger role. Tierney will be made superfluous, and aspects of his role will diminish as other players grow, but there is no lack of opportunity or roles for our younger players to fill. We have 1 pure centers on our team - Tierney. Anisimov, White, Paul, Hawryluk all play wing. If Brown and Norris are amongst the top 12 players on our team, they will have no roadblocks between them and a top 6 role. If they arent amongst the top 12 players on our team, they arent ready for the NHL. Very, very simple. No need to put the cart before the horse. You can trade Tierney at any time. Again, the only reason to rush to do so is if we have an offer that fills a real need.

 

[Sensung]

I think you fully missed the point here. You dont develop players by handing them in Tierneys role. Its not an easy one or a confidence-building one. Players like Tierney insulate young, inexperienced players until they are ready to seize a larger role. Tierney will be made superfluous, and aspects of his role will diminish as other players grow, but there is no lack of opportunity or roles for our younger players to fill. We have 1 pure centers on our team - Tierney. Anisimov, White, Paul, Hawryluk all play wing. If Brown and Norris are amongst the top 12 players on our team, they will have no roadblocks between them and a top 6 role. If they arent amongst the top 12 players on our team, they arent ready for the NHL. Very, very simple. No need to put the cart before the horse. You can trade Tierney at any time. Again, the only reason to rush to do so is if we have an offer that fills a real need.

Actually, you can and should develop players like Brown and Norris by providing them with extended periods of play in prominent roles.

There is more than one way to develop players. The Sens have opted to chase points in meaningless seasons instead of using the opportunity to give prospects like Brown a meaningful opportunity.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Actually, you can and should develop players like Brown and Norris by providing them with extended periods of play in prominent roles.

There is more than one way to develop players. The Sens have opted to chase points in meaningless seasons instead of using the opportunity to give prospects like Brown a meaningful opportunity.

So you would ease in Brown and Norris by giving them 60% D-Zone starts, over 2mins on the PK and under 1min on the PP?

Sounds like a really bad idea to me....

 

[Sensung]

So you would ease in Brown and Norris by giving them 60% D-Zone starts, over 2mins on the PK and under 1min on the PP?

Sounds like a really bad idea to me....

That role can be filled by White.

Give Brown and Norris the top 2C roles.

The Sens are going to be at the bottom of the standing either way. Might as well see what these players, who have already dominated the AHL, can do.

 

[DueDiligence]

The sooner Tierney is gone, the better.

Let some other team overpay for the inflated stats he put up being gifted top 6 playing time.

Not sure where you are getting the "inflated stats" from. He was a 40 point player in San Jose playing on the 3rd line and improved those stats in Ottawa getting a few more minutes. He would be a solid 3rd line centre on any good team.