Chris Simon diagnosed with Stage 3 CTE

[belair]

i feel like that's a broad spectrum...someone's mental capacity...it's not black and white...

So what do we do? Create a scale multiplication for how much responsibility one should carry based on how emotionally or intellectually capable they are?

So time served multiplied by your mental capability grade(a scale varying from like 0.1-10)

So if you're severely under capable and you commit a crime of 5 years jail...you would go 5x0.1 = 6 months of jail...but if you're highly capable, could be 5x10 = 50 years of jail.

That would be the most fair way, no?

Or maybe their ability to think shouldn't be a factor, but rather a black and white punishment to A) keep dangerous people off the street and B) have a strong deterrent for those who are capable of thinking about what they're doing.

It's incredibly an incredibly broad, complex spectrum that you're never going to convince people of until they have a significant understanding of the limitations of each specific individual.

I'm currently the primary caregiver for my father who, unknowingly, had early onset dementia prior to having his marriage and career end abruptly. He lost the ability to manage his personal finances and was prone to being misled online. Somewhat similar to what Chris Simon was dealing with as a result of his CTE diagnosis.

People with diminished cognitive ability are prone to making poor decisions because they don't have the ability to differentiate between right and wrong. Its primarily impulse and immediate gratification.

And there are an overwhelming number of complex phishing scams in the world today designed to identify these specific individuals, which allow scammers constant access to these individuals to defraud them by any means. If that individual has isolated themselves from friends and family, the damage that can be done in a short period of time is unimaginable.

Sorry to spin a bit off-topic, but I think it's important to focus on how Chris Simon's CTE diagnosis changes the way his actions are perceived, particularly later in his life.

 

[Martin Skoula]

You could live the healthiest lifestyle possible and regular blows to the head would still cause the same damage.
Whatever. On-ice or behind the scenes, by whatever mechanism, fighting ruins players' lives. It's fighting that is the problem, not the lack of off-ice prep.

I’m not saying going to bed early makes you immune to concussions but even if these guys never fought once but kept the rest of what they had to go through to be able to fight twice a week, their brains would still be incredibly unhealthy and more vulnerable to longterm damage. Obviously getting punched in the head is bad, but it’s a hell of a lot worse if you’re a chronically concussed alcoholic that hasn’t had a restful 8 hour sleep in months or years and is hiding the symptoms with peak opiate epidemic amounts of codeine prescriptions while lying to your doctor about how bad the symptoms are to avoid getting sent down and losing your salary.

Nobody should be fighting twice a week period but the behind the scenes stuff made it much worse than it had to be. I don’t think you have this string of enforcer suicides if they’re otherwise healthy people who have the ability to say no at any time without losing their paycheck and doctors are treating them like humans instead of figuring out what cocktail of pills is needed to get him to the next fight.

The off-ice part of it took it from guys that would have early cognitive decline to guys that were dead by their 40s.

 

[Dr Quincy]

he made the choice that the pay was worth the risk. no one made him choose this over stocking shelves at a grocery store or driving a cab.

Interestingly enough, US courts don't put a lot of weight in "assumption of the risk" defenses in cases of employer/employee situations. For example, a person can't waive the responsibility employers have to follow OSHA guidelines.

It sounds really tough and cool to say he made his choice, and maybe (or maybe not) in a moral or ethical way you are write. But in a legal way you are wrong.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Sounds dark and I hope these people live another 20 years, but I'm really curious to see what Nilan, Williams, Domi, etc have. Those 3 have the most fighting majors in league history and they're still kicking and appear to be going strong.

Berube is 5th i think and he's going strong.

Basically, are some people genetically dispositioned to be more resistant to CTE, or the effects of it, or did CTE + other things cause the downfall, or is CTE correlation and not a causation ?

Can't imagine it's the latter, but there's more than a few outliers.

It's well documented that the anticipation that you're going to have to fight led a lot, if not all of these heavyweights to "medicate" in ways that is also proven to be detrimental to one's health.

At the end of the day, far too many people have gone too early.

 

[SteelCityCannon]

Players went after the NFL, and succeeded in getting a hug epayout, and in getting rules changed limiting head contact. Not sure why you are protecting the NHL.

I'm not protecting the NHL but not wanting the sport changed. They know the risks.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I'm not protecting the NHL but not wanting the sport changed. They know the risks.

They know the risks? The boss of their league is literally saying there's not a connection between CTE and playing hockey.

 

[SteelCityCannon]

They know the risks? The boss of their league is literally saying there's not a connection between CTE and playing hockey.

I think we absolutely need to be putting resources into players safety and what we can do equipment wise and such. But nobody is forcing them to play hockey. It's a contact sport.

 

[Nick Hansen]

The second half of the 90's up to the lockout was the most Pejorative Slured era in NHL history.

That said, Chris Simon was one of the fighters who could actually play the game. You don't luck yourself to 300 pts in the NHL.

 

[Jericho111091]

Can't say I'm surprised, but it's a shame

 

[Martin Skoula]

I think we absolutely need to be putting resources into players safety and what we can do equipment wise and such. But nobody is forcing them to play hockey. It's a contact sport.

Initially yes but after which concussion are they no longer of sound mind enough that that the onus is on the team doctors to force them to retire for their own good? They don’t go from perfectly normal and able to make informed decisions about their risk tolerance to completely mentally destroyed the day they retire.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

They know the risks? The boss of their league is literally saying there's not a connection between CTE and playing hockey.

Yeah because they really need yo be told that getting punched in the head every game is detrimental long term...

 

[Hockeylife2018]

I find it increasingly difficult to watch fight highlights of these guys. They were inflicting brain damage on each other and had little to no idea.

I'm sorry, but anyone that thinks getting hit in the head isn't going to cause damage, already had brain damage to begin with

Being a mechanic I know full stop that breathing in and touching the chemicals I do on a daily basis is possibly going to give me cancer....but I like money so....

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

Sad but unsurprising

 

[ForsbergMoDo21]

The NHLs’s denial of links is comical and shitty, but that’s the only thing that bothers me. I’m tired of society finding every reason to absolve people of any responsibility for their personal decisions. Any one of these career fighters could’ve hanged the skates up at anytime and found consistent work in the game of hockey or elsewhere, to say nothing of how much money they could have if they had any semblance of financial literacy.

Plenty of people put their physical health at risk or actually severely affect it detrimentally for the sake of their jobs. And they don’t make professional athlete money.

Christ, the special ed aides in schools I’ve worked in are subject to blows to the head and biting regularly and they barely make minimum wage. Nobody gives a shit.

Edit: Has UFC Surpassed NHL As The 4th Most Popular Sport In US?

Where’s the outrage for a sport more than hockey where the primary object of the competition is to give your opponent a head injury? Why are UFC athletes allowed to make their own decisions and why isn’t their agency rationalized away due to CTE like so many people try to do with hockey?

The hypocrisy and lack of common sense around this issue is stark.

 

[featherhawk]

It's apparently news to the commissioner of the NHL, who has repeatedly denied any meaningful connection between playing hockey and CTE.

They should ask former NHL captain, Greg Johnson's family and friends if there is a connection between playing hockey and CTE...

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

They should ask former NHL captain, Greg Johnson's family and friends if there is a connection between playing hockey and CTE...

Oh man I forgot about Greg Johnson. RIP.

 

[ismelofhockey]

Fight purists, are you not entertained.

 

[ismelofhockey]

The NHLs’s denial of links is comical and shitty, but that’s the only thing that bothers me. I’m tired of society finding every reason to absolve people of any responsibility for their personal decisions. Any one of these career fighters could’ve hanged the skates up at anytime and found consistent work in the game of hockey or elsewhere, to say nothing of how much money they could have if they had any semblance of financial literacy.

Plenty of people put their physical health at risk or actually severely affect it detrimentally for the sake of their jobs. And they don’t make professional athlete money.

Christ, the special ed aides in schools I’ve worked in are subject to blows to the head and biting regularly and they barely make minimum wage. Nobody gives a shit.

Edit: Has UFC Surpassed NHL As The 4th Most Popular Sport In US?

Where’s the outrage for a sport more than hockey where the primary object of the competition is to give your opponent a head injury? Why are UFC athletes allowed to make their own decisions and why isn’t their agency rationalized away due to CTE like so many people try to do with hockey?

The hypocrisy and lack of common sense around this issue is stark.

Let's make gladiatorial combat great again.

How many fighters don't make the NHL as a percentage?

 

[ismelofhockey]

I'm sorry, but anyone that thinks getting hit in the head isn't going to cause damage, already had brain damage to begin with

Being a mechanic I know full stop that breathing in and touching the chemicals I do on a daily basis is possibly going to give me cancer....but I like money so....

Everybody likes money. That's why regulating industries is a must.

 

[edevils]

Nobody should be fighting twice a week period but the behind the scenes stuff made it much worse than it had to be. I don’t think you have this string of enforcer suicides if they’re otherwise healthy people who have the ability to say no at any time without losing their paycheck and doctors are treating them like humans instead of figuring out what cocktail of pills is needed to get him to the next fight.

People with mental disabilities like bi-polar are more likely to pursue risk taking activities. They are also more prone to substance abuse issues.

I wonder, what came first? Someone with a previous mental disability might be more likely to choosing a risky lifestyle (fighting for a living).

I'm not knocking anything you're saying, but rather expanding on your ideas.

 

[TheSmokingMan]

The NHLs’s denial of links is comical and shitty, but that’s the only thing that bothers me. I’m tired of society finding every reason to absolve people of any responsibility for their personal decisions. Any one of these career fighters could’ve hanged the skates up at anytime and found consistent work in the game of hockey or elsewhere, to say nothing of how much money they could have if they had any semblance of financial literacy.

I'm not sure how these guys could have made better choices about the dangers when the first officially diagnosed case of a hockey player with CTE wasn't until 2009.

It's shameful that the NHL isn't doing more to help these players who unknowingly put their life on the line for the league.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

i feel like that's a broad spectrum...someone's mental capacity...it's not black and white...

So what do we do? Create a scale multiplication for how much responsibility one should carry based on how emotionally or intellectually capable they are?

So time served multiplied by your mental capability grade(a scale varying from like 0.1-10)

So if you're severely under capable and you commit a crime of 5 years jail...you would go 5x0.1 = 6 months of jail...but if you're highly capable, could be 5x10 = 50 years of jail.

That would be the most fair way, no?

Or maybe their ability to think shouldn't be a factor, but rather a black and white punishment to A) keep dangerous people off the street and B) have a strong deterrent for those who are capable of thinking about what they're doing.

Or just have better mental institutions to hold and support them.

 

[ijuka]

I thought that these couldn't be properly diagnosed until after death, though? So these are a bit, like. How much of it can be attributed to the death itself? Shrug.

 

[TheSmokingMan]

I thought that these couldn't be properly diagnosed until after death, though? So these are a bit, like. How much of it can be attributed to the death itself? Shrug.

The parts of the brain that are damaged with CTE deal with decision-making, impulse control, planning, judgment, and personality. People may show poor judgment, risky behavior, impulsivity, aggression, and personality changes. This is one reason why CTE is often linked to things like sudden emotional outbursts, criminal behavior, or social withdrawal.

It's similar to other degenerative brain diseases like dementia. It destroys the brain, and while it may not be the direct cause of death, it leads to complications or behaviors that can lead to death (IE suicide, risk taking, and substance abuse). The decision making part of the brain that would prevent these behaviors in a healthy person is permanently damaged in someone with CTE. In other words, they have a mind that is wired to make bad decisions.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Everybody likes money. That's why regulating industries is a must.

Agreed. And brains aren't even fully developed until the early 20s. Many of us have made not so great decision in our late teens early 20s.

So in regards to the NHL it becomes a question of, how much do you want to profit off the ill-advised decisions of young men? Are you really going to do virtually nothing to help reduce the risk? Are you seriously f***ing denying there's any correlation?

Like how can the league educate any young players to the potential risks of CTE when the commissioner is to this day claiming there isn't enough evidence to support any link?