Chris Simon diagnosed with Stage 3 CTE

[Big Daddy Cane]

I find it increasingly difficult to watch fight highlights of these guys. They were inflicting brain damage on each other and had little to no idea.

 

[shello]

Incredibly sad, but unfortunately not very surprising either

 

[tarheelhockey]

Not surprising at all.

Officially, the league says this is a random circumstance and not connected to the orders he took as a condition of his employment.

 

[jbeck5]

Yes. The same way we don’t hold people with severe mental illnesses, mental deficiencies, and those with degenerative neurological disorders to same moral authority standards as healthy adults because they quite literally don’t have the mental capacity to make rational decisions.

i feel like that's a broad spectrum...someone's mental capacity...it's not black and white...

So what do we do? Create a scale multiplication for how much responsibility one should carry based on how emotionally or intellectually capable they are?

So time served multiplied by your mental capability grade(a scale varying from like 0.1-10)

So if you're severely under capable and you commit a crime of 5 years jail...you would go 5x0.1 = 6 months of jail...but if you're highly capable, could be 5x10 = 50 years of jail.

That would be the most fair way, no?

Or maybe their ability to think shouldn't be a factor, but rather a black and white punishment to A) keep dangerous people off the street and B) have a strong deterrent for those who are capable of thinking about what they're doing.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

Simon was one of my favorite fighters. He was able to play a regular shift too. I regularly watch some of his fights.

Basically no defense.

Guess that did not help either.

 

[SteelCityCannon]

This is incredibly sad, but I don't think his family should be going after the NHL either.

 

[abax44]

Getting bonked on the head repeatedly caused brain damage? No way!!!

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Getting bonked on the head repeatedly brain damage? No way!!!

It's apparently news to the commissioner of the NHL, who has repeatedly denied any meaningful connection between playing hockey and CTE.

 

[A1LeafNation]

No one will do anything until lawsuits start flying in and the Owners/NHLPA has to start paying out of their pockets.

 

[Martin Skoula]

It's apparently news to the commissioner of the NHL, who has repeatedly denied any meaningful connection between playing hockey and CTE.

Fighting every 2 days in between eating handfuls of Percocets washed down with a 6pack because your salary depends on you doing so isn’t what I’d consider a normal part of playing hockey.

 

[Brookbank]

Where does this leave fighting honestly ? We don't have gladiators like Simon anymore but we still have guys that fight fairly often.

Edit : I guess Martin Skoula's post above answers my question. We have fights but they just aren't the same as that.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Fighting every 2 days in between eating handfuls of Percocets washed down with a 6pack because your salary depends on you doing so isn’t what I’d consider a normal part of playing hockey.

he made the choice that the pay was worth the risk. no one made him choose this over stocking shelves at a grocery store or driving a cab.

 

[ItWasJustified]

They were inflicting brain damage on each other and had little to no idea.

 

[Martin Skoula]

he made the choice that the pay was worth the risk. no one made him choose this over stocking shelves at a grocery store or driving a cab.

The first while yes, 5 seasons in I don’t think he’s of sound mind to decide whether season 6 is worth the continued risk, especially if team doctors are telling him he’s fine and continuing to fill out opiate prescriptions.

 

[tarheelhockey]

he made the choice that the pay was worth the risk. no one made him choose this over stocking shelves at a grocery store or driving a cab.

But his pay was based on market price, right?

And wouldn’t we all agree that market price for a job that fatally destroys your brain is a lot higher than market price for a job that busts your knuckles?

Seems to me that someone collected a lot of money by failing to pay Chris Simon the actual cost of the work he was doing.

 

[Martin Skoula]

But his pay was based on market price, right?

And wouldn’t we all agree that market price for a job that fatally destroys your brain is a lot higher than market price for a job that busts your knuckles?

Seems to me that someone collected a lot of money by failing to pay Chris Simon the actual cost of the work he was doing.

If he was better at punching and avoiding getting punched there’d be less risk to him so in some sense he was paid appropriately.

The on-ice fighting part isn’t that relevant imo, it’s the behind the scenes that makes it possible that’s the real problem. Belak talked about how he doesn’t sleep most nights because he knows there’s a 6’5 guy with cement hands waiting for him at 7pm tomorrow. These guys don’t sleep, are taking a cocktail of pain meds to be able to ignore their body enough to fight regularly, are out partying with their team 3 nights a week, and then show up for work in a bright and loud environment with a concussion. Get a non-fighter living that way for a few years and he’ll probably get CTE off his first punch to the head followed by a 230 pound guy falling on him with his head on the ice.

I think a guy with the discipline and resources for MacKinnon level off-ice prep could fight fairly regularly and not be at huge risk for serious longterm issues but who’s living a straightedge 9pm bedtime kale salad life for a short league minimum career with no pension, doing a job that doesn’t meaningfully help your team at all? If you had those resources and discipline you might as well put them towards being a generic bottom 6 guy for more money and a longer safer career.

 

[Statto]

It's apparently news to the commissioner of the NHL, who has repeatedly denied any meaningful connection between playing hockey and CTE.

Yeah. Every time the NHL leadership makes statements on this they are voicing opinions on something they are not qualified to discuss. The science is pretty much indisputable.

 

[super6646]

Pretty clear there is a causal link (or at least a significant correlation) between fighting and CTE. Ya ya I'll let the parade of people come here and say that contact can cause CTE, but you can clearly prevent one within the sport without fundamentally changing it.

Never cheer when I see a fight, but I actively wince when I see guys in junior leagues doing it.

 

[Booker T]

That baseball swing on Hollweg is still one of the worst plays I've seen in hockey, maybe the worst.

 

[LemonSauceD]

i feel like that's a broad spectrum...someone's mental capacity...it's not black and white...

So what do we do? Create a scale multiplication for how much responsibility one should carry based on how emotionally or intellectually capable they are?

So time served multiplied by your mental capability grade(a scale varying from like 0.1-10)

So if you're severely under capable and you commit a crime of 5 years jail...you would go 5x0.1 = 6 months of jail...but if you're highly capable, could be 5x10 = 50 years of jail.

That would be the most fair way, no?

Or maybe their ability to think shouldn't be a factor, but rather a black and white punishment to A) keep dangerous people off the street and B) have a strong deterrent for those who are capable of thinking about what they're doing.

That… is different. You’re assuming every mentally disabled person is actually committing violent crimes.

I’m not against institutionalization for people who very clearly can’t function in a normal society.

Repeat offenders, those with severe mental disabilities and illnesses who’ve committed violent crimes, violent criminals in general, should all be put away. I can at least understand that there’s a logical explanation why an incorrigible individual with a mental disability can have a predisposition to violence, engage in degenerate behaviour, and or commit a violent crime while on the same breath want them isolated if the individual possess a significant safety risk to the public.

As much as it would be easy to make these things black and white, it really isn’t.

 

[abax44]

But his pay was based on market price, right?

And wouldn’t we all agree that market price for a job that fatally destroys your brain is a lot higher than market price for a job that busts your knuckles?

Seems to me that someone collected a lot of money by failing to pay Chris Simon the actual cost of the work he was doing.

He should've fought for a raise.

 

[Acallabeth]

The on-ice fighting part isn’t that relevant imo, it’s the behind the scenes that makes it possible that’s the real problem. Belak talked about how he doesn’t sleep most nights because he knows there’s a 6’5 guy with cement hands waiting for him at 7pm tomorrow. These guys don’t sleep, are taking a cocktail of pain meds to be able to ignore their body enough to fight regularly, are out partying with their team 3 nights a week, and then show up for work in a bright and loud environment with a concussion. Get a non-fighter living that way for a few years and he’ll probably get CTE off his first punch to the head followed by a 230 pound guy falling on him with his head on the ice.

I think a guy with the discipline and resources for MacKinnon level off-ice prep could fight fairly regularly and not be at huge risk for serious longterm issues but who’s living a straightedge 9pm bedtime kale salad life for a short league minimum career with no pension, doing a job that doesn’t meaningfully help your team at all? If you had those resources and discipline you might as well put them towards being a generic bottom 6 guy for more money and a longer safer career.

You could live the healthiest lifestyle possible and regular blows to the head would still cause the same damage.
Whatever. On-ice or behind the scenes, by whatever mechanism, fighting ruins players' lives. It's fighting that is the problem, not the lack of off-ice prep.

 

[tarheelhockey]

If he was better at punching and avoiding getting punched there’d be less risk to him so in some sense he was paid appropriately.

We are talking about Chris Simon, he was one of the best fighters in the league.

The on-ice fighting part isn’t that relevant imo, it’s the behind the scenes that makes it possible that’s the real problem. Belak talked about how he doesn’t sleep most nights because he knows there’s a 6’5 guy with cement hands waiting for him at 7pm tomorrow. These guys don’t sleep, are taking a cocktail of pain meds to be able to ignore their body enough to fight regularly, are out partying with their team 3 nights a week, and then show up for work in a bright and loud environment with a concussion. Get a non-fighter living that way for a few years and he’ll probably get CTE off his first punch to the head followed by a 230 pound guy falling on him with his head on the ice.

I think a guy with the discipline and resources for MacKinnon level off-ice prep could fight fairly regularly and not be at huge risk for serious longterm issues but who’s living a straightedge 9pm bedtime kale salad life for a short league minimum career with no pension, doing a job that doesn’t meaningfully help your team at all? If you had those resources and discipline you might as well put them towards being a generic bottom 6 guy for more money and a longer safer career.

Is there any documented science whatsoever behind this post?

 

[Seedtype]

Pretty clear there is a causal link (or at least a significant correlation) between fighting and CTE. Ya ya I'll let the parade of people come here and say that contact can cause CTE, but you can clearly prevent one within the sport without fundamentally changing it.

Never cheer when I see a fight, but I actively wince when I see guys in junior leagues doing it.

I cringe a lot nowadays what with all the fighting with visors on, I keep expecting to see someone's hand slice open or something, heh.

The only thing I ever really agreed with when it came to fighting is that it was better than guys just swinging sticks at each other.

 

[57special]

This is incredibly sad, but I don't think his family should be going after the NHL either.

Players went after the NFL, and succeeded in getting a hug epayout, and in getting rules changed limiting head contact. Not sure why you are protecting the NHL.