Thirty One
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- Dec 28, 2003
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Chris Kreider
- Thread starter Miller Time NYR
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Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
- 28,981
- 24,357
It's not a double standard, guys. He has one standard for Kreider, and a different, distinct standard for everyone else.
LORDE
I am Lorde, YA YA YA
If CK is paying close attention to defensive responsibilities (and I think that's a big part of this) then what we are seeing is exactly what we should all expect.
He's not going to be able to do it all right away, and if you think about how lost he looked in those playoff games last yr defensively you know he needed this.
Let him develop and become someone who can play two-way hockey and then once he "gets" that part of things he can go back to trying to light the lamp.
It's going to take time...
Is it learned at this level or do they send him down? That can be debated.
He's not going to be able to do it all right away, and if you think about how lost he looked in those playoff games last yr defensively you know he needed this.
Let him develop and become someone who can play two-way hockey and then once he "gets" that part of things he can go back to trying to light the lamp.
It's going to take time...
Is it learned at this level or do they send him down? That can be debated.
Unsurprising, but let's examine it anyway.
Big guy, weighs a lot, takes more energy to get big body from point A to point B.
Hagelin, smaller guy, weighs 50 pounds less, takes less energy to get smaller body from point A to point B.
Hagelin can persistently use his speed to his advantage.
Kreider, while he has straightaway speed, is going to have shorter shifts if we are expecting him to fit a role like Hagelin.
Hagelin and Callahan are very similar.
Kreider is a different kind of player. And he's a player that would benefit from the open space that Nash would create.
Well he's not on the ice for a lot of goals against. As i pointed out before. There is a breakdown of the numbers.
Like Rick Nash (6-4, 218) you mean?
I thought Kreider, with his strenght, size and speed would be able to create some chances on his own by holding the puck and crashing the net. Much like Nash does
LORDE
I am Lorde, YA YA YA
Does Rick Nash play the same way Carl Hagelin?
Rick Nash, AS I POINTED OUT EARLIER, uses his body to bull his way with control of the puck.
He doesn't use his speed consistently to win races to pucks and be a pest like Hagelin and Callahan do. Different players for different roles.
Kreider doesn't play that way. He doesn't control the puck. He isn't a puck possession type of player.
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
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http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...&teamid=20&type=goal&sort=OPPF20&sortdir=DESC
Opponent Goals For per 20.
And I can go back through his game log, as well, if you'd like.
In 11 games he's been on the ice for 4 goals against and 4 goals for.
He's on the ice for a lot of goals against?
3-4 loss to Winnipeg, 3-1 loss to Montreal, 2 in a 6-3 beating by Pittsburgh.
Only 3 of his 11 games he was on the ice for a goal against.
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Now to disagree with you is to not understand concepts. Do all the analysis you wish. It won't alter that Kreider doesn't look like the same player as last year. I assume he will again, but telling us that we don't understand the game or its concepts makes you sound comical an condescending.
Simple solution for young players: Play well, earn more minutes. That is how it has always been, no matter how much you stamp your feet and try to impart your wisdom to us ignorants.
pld459666
Registered User
Kreider is not, nor has he ever been as crafty with the puck as Nash is.
Kreider has a good shot, but he's not a puck carrier and while he and Nash may be the same size, Nash (because he's a much better stick handler) can do a whole lot more with the puck than Kreider does or can do.
Additionally, Kreider has never demonstrated an ability to generate offence on his own. Guys his size that can do what you suggest get drafted in the top 3. Not 19th.
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
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That stat appears to be in the reverse order of Behind the Net's. Is it possible that a high rating there is a good thing, and you're reading it backwards?
Torts has put tons of youngsters in and trusred many. He doesn't trust Kreider yet.
Ding ding ding! Hagelin doesn't need to ride shotgun with Nash or Gaborik, but he gets that opportunity because he worked his ass off and got to that point after starting out with John Mitchell on the 4th line.
So Kreider -- a 6'3 225lb kid who can skate like stink -- now needs someone to open up space for him? Christian Thomas needs someone to open up space for him. Derek Stepan needs someone to open up space for him. Kreider is a manchild on skates that shouldn't need anyone to do anything for him other than get him the puck. You don't need someone "creating space" to crash the net for a rebound or to get into a shooting lane to deflect a puck.
My grammar was just fine, but insulting my intelligence totally negates the fact that you managed to contradict yourself entirely on your own. I don't need to explain my point of view in order to point out that you're being unabashedly hypocritical. But hey, calling me a child, or insulting other posters ability "to grasp deeper concepts and break downs of the game" is definitely making me overlook that.
No, he is not as shifty of course. But he has strength, speed and balance that he can use.
Being unexperienced and needing to learn is one thing, but what happend to the energy he had last season?
Id like to see Kreider hold the puck and use his physical strenght and speed to create something.
As for now he seems very timid and snake bitten. Not sure if thats because of Torts or not, but he needs to get over it. Getting his mind together in CT seems to be the best option rather than sitting on the bench all night waiting to get a couple of minutes per game on the ice.
Different players, play the game differently.
Kreider DOES need a player to open up space for him at this stage of his career. He isn't a puck possession player, which means he won't have control of the puck long enough to draw defenders to him in a way that Nash does.
Playing with the guys he has, and based on where he takes most of the faceoffs hes on the ice for, he won't get that space with them either.
Despite his size, he doesn't play like Nash or Jagr. Puck control isn't his game.
pld459666
Registered User
I don't think that Kreider is engaging physically enough. I think some of that stems from the short leash that Torts has on him should he make a mistake positionally, while a large part of it is that I don't think that it is in his mental make-up to be a physical player similar to Stepan (not being a physical guy).
I also think that there are guys on this team that are SO concerned with defefensive hockey that they give up some of their more offensive instincts. Thet they peel back when they should pinch.
I also think that there are guys on this team that are SO concerned with defefensive hockey that they give up some of their more offensive instincts. Thet they peel back when they should pinch.
Well, keep in mind, he's also coming from NCAA. Where they play far less games then at the pro level, and a far less condensed schedule. NCAA is mostly a weekend league.
He's now on the ice more then he's been, traveling more consistently. And the competition he's facing now is at a significantly higher level, more intelligent, stronger, and the game is faster.
Some players adjust faster then others.
But they could ease his struggles by having the kinds of players on his side that can generate offense more consistently.
Again, his defense hasn't been bad. He hasn't been on the ice for many goals against. 4 in his 11 games. And they all came in 3 of them. 8 of them, no goals against.
So he's clearly made the effort defensively.
His performance will be spotty, as expected from a rookie.
They can utilize his skill sets, by placing him with players that will exploit them. Or continue to place him with players who will not.
Nash isn't a pest the way Callahan and Hagelin are. He doesn't have the motor that those two have.
Nash uses his body to protect the puck.
Kreider isn't there yet, and really never has done that consistently. He's thrives more on opportunity on the rush. And when the puck is in control by his team he will go to the net.
Like it or hate it, its the way he's always played.
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