Proposal: Chris Kreider to the Avs with Josh Manson as the base

Drake1588

UNATCO
Sponsor
Jul 2, 2002
30,309
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Northern Virginia
The key part left out in these proposals is always the player's NTC or NMC. CK probably isn't waiving anyway. This summer, his full NTC/NMC turns into a partial NTC/NMC, and the Rangers can work within the limitations of his list to move him, which they clearly, clearly have wanted to do for a while. Before then, I think he balks.

I tend to think he finishes his contract with the Rangers, unless his play rebounds in a big way. It's not going to do that from the press box. He won't get traded from the press box either.

I don't think this is a player that Colorado will target, at all. I imagine there are many more attractive/safer targets. If the point here is Colorado reducing its risk where Landeskog/Nichushkin are concerned, why do they turn to CK as a sure thing? He'd have to rebound big time to provide real value.
 

flyfysher

Registered User
Mar 21, 2012
6,562
5,196
My trade assumes Nuke will do what he does and drop another nuke on his NHL career between now and the 2nd round of the NHL playoffs.

If you assume that rather likely outcome... Does it still not make any sense for the Avs?

Assume the Avs find themselves with neither of Nuke or Landy come March 1st. Because you and I both know there is a much better than 50% chance we'll be reading Avs line-up reports later this year and it will read.

Scratched - Nuke (undisclosed).
You need a D-man like Manson for the POs. Trading him would be a mistake.
 

SML2

Registered User
Jan 1, 2018
5,217
7,681
I may be underestimating Manson's value, but are you underestimating Manson's flaws.

Be honest. Who has been better this year. Malinski or Manson. They are not similar players other than being R shot, but which one would you want to have more TOI this year? Which one is giving the Avs more?

If Kreider can return to form or some sort of form he had the past three years... he's a better player than Manson and by quite some margin in my mind.


funny... but you still didn't answer the question.

Drury may get fired, but if he does... the new GM still isn't likely to pursue a tear down given the long term contracts you have in place with an elite goalie in his prime and LaF. As well as extensions coming for K Miller and Schneider. The Rangers are in no position to tear it down. They'll try to retool. You and I both know this is far more likely than a firesale.
I am still looking for what the question was.

To me it boils down to this. Who is the core and who is not?

Core: Fox, Igor, Laf, Cuylle, Schneider.

Chytil would be but his history of injury takes him out. You can't build on him.

Zibenejad is one of the great mysteries of the NHL. There were times when he was just dominant. Now he has fallen as far off a cliff as I have ever seen. He needs Austin Powers to go back in time 3 years and find his Mojo. I don't think that's going to happen for him here.

I love Panarin, but he has one year left after this. Him being told we are breaking it down vs retooling may get him to waive his no trade, and a 50% retained Panarin is a blue chip on the trade market.

Trocheck is a decent veteran to have around at a reasonable salary. You gotta have a couple grownups in the room. He stays.


Lindgren is the Ryan Callahan of defensemen. He plays like Iron Man and is built like Ant Man. Guys like that don't age like wine in a cellar. They age like milk in the sun. He could be a nice bottom pair guy for a contender, and I hope he gets his name on the cup, but he's probably out of the game by 31-32. It would be a mistake to give him the money/term he is going to expect.

Don't get me started on K'Andre Miller. He has zero hockey sense. He has zero mean streak. He doesn't process or think the game well at all. He is a bag of magic beans. I know we can find some GM who doesn't really watch too closely and allows youtube highlights to count as scouting, and will pay well for these magic beans. If that happens, I would drive KAM to his next destination myself. He has to GTFOH.

The rest are a cup of coffee you forgot about. It isn't hot, it's not really cold, depending on how you feel that day, you could finish it, or you could get rid of it and get something else.

This core is now on its third coach since the letter and they still haven't turned the corner. Look at the East. What fairy dust are you sprinkling on this group to get them past the Florida Panthers? The Devils have eaten them alive this season. They can't even handle the Flyers.

The season is only a waste if you don't do something with it. If you don't think you can win it all, then get busy towards that goal. I don't think they can win it all. I have watched every game this year and it's broken. If you are a veteran on this team and you can't lead the way out of this, then it's time for you to go. We need to either find people who can or create the void for new voices to step up and become those leaders. Doing that is still getting something out of the season.
 
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John Mandalorian

2022 Avs: The First Dance
Nov 29, 2018
11,970
7,714
I may be underestimating Manson's value, but are you underestimating Manson's flaws.

Be honest. Who has been better this year. Malinski or Manson. They are not similar players other than being R shot, but which one would you want to have more TOI this year? Which one is giving the Avs more?

If Kreider can return to form or some sort of form he had the past three years... he's a better player than Manson and by quite some margin in my mind.

The guy I think the Avs should target is Oleksiak.
 

shadow1

Registered User
Nov 29, 2008
16,798
5,704
This trade is a Christmas gift for one team.

New York gets out of Kreider's contract, somehow picks up a 2nd in the process, and later flips Manson for even more assets.

Colorado gives up the best player in the deal, draining their defensive depth and adding the horrible contract of a washed-up player.
 

eco's bones

Registered User
Jul 21, 2005
26,984
14,170
Elmira NY
In the last 3 playoff years the Rangers have made two runs to the conference finals and Kreider played 43 playoff games and scored 24 goals which if was prorated to a full NHL season is somewhere around a 50 goal a year pace---only those were playoff games which are a bit of a different animal than regular season. He gets back to where he was (and the Rangers room is toxic now and there's a hammer over the player's heads) he has a pretty friendly contract for the production he can put up and a team picking him up can get up to 3 playoff runs with him before his term is up.

All the above has value. He's a proven playoff goal scorer. If a playoff bound team gets him in sync with his new team they will gain an edge on other teams. If I'm trading this guy (and I'm not Drury) I'm looking to go younger and young roster players, prospects, picks would be what I'd look at....not older vets. I'm guessing the Rangers will hit free agency in July with vets in mind but the moves they make now will be for younger assets. Anything else wouldn't make a lot of sense to me.

Also if I have a player that lots of teams want and I suspect a lot of teams will want Kreider---I'm going to field offers for the best deal I can. If a team wants to get ahead of others and do a deal for him sooner then that team will have to pony up something for real from the younger part of their pool. He is our best movable asset.

Manson and Wood aren't interesting to me.
 

FerrisRox

"Wanna go, Prettyboy?"
Sep 17, 2003
21,006
14,467
Toronto, Ontario
Never mind the value of the pieces in the proposal, I don't understand why Colorado would even consider this.

I can't fathom how anyone could watch the Avalanche this season and arrive at the conclusion that they should trade a piece of their defense away in order to add a forward.

It's illogical. They could definitely use another piece just like Manson. What they don't need to do is get rid of Manson.

This would clearly make them worse.
 

5cotland

NFR
Jan 23, 2015
4,085
4,993
Scotland
This trade is a Christmas gift for one team.

New York gets out of Kreider's contract, somehow picks up a 2nd in the process, and later flips Manson for even more assets.

Colorado gives up the best player in the deal, draining their defensive depth and adding the horrible contract of a washed-up player.
After scoring 125 goals in 3 season (not including playoffs) and coming off a 39 goal / 75 pt season, top liner Chris Kreider is all of a sudden a washed up cap-dump that is lucky to bring NYR a 2nd rounder in a trade because he has struggled for 20 games this season.

Not only that but JOSH MANSON is apparently a more valuable and better player.

🤦‍♂️
 

shadow1

Registered User
Nov 29, 2008
16,798
5,704
After scoring 125 goals in 3 season (not including playoffs) and coming off a 39 goal / 75 pt season, top liner Chris Kreider is all of a sudden a washed up cap-dump that is lucky to bring NYR a 2nd rounder in a trade because he has struggled for 20 games this season.

Not only that but JOSH MANSON is apparently a more valuable and better player.

🤦‍♂️

Kreider's on pace for fewer points (32) than the number of goals he scored last year. He's one of New York's worst possession players (45.4%) and they're getting crushed whenever he's on the ice (43.5 xGF%).

Last year's stats are just that - last year's stats. I hope he turns it around, but we're talking about a mid-30s player who's having a really bad season by any measurable criteria. Maybe he can turn back the hands of time, but I'm willing to bet no team pays a premium to find out. You might find humor in me saying Josh Manson is better, but I don't see the Avalanche healthy scratching him any time soon.
 

biturbo19

Registered User
Jul 13, 2010
27,490
12,635
I don't really see much appeal with this for either side.

For the Avs...they need some of that heavier game that Manson can bring on the back end, and don't have a lot else of it. They also really can't take the risk on a guy who is slumping this year at an age that starts to get a little worrisome, on a big contract. Not with Rantanen to sign this summer, and plenty of other risky/questionable contracts between Landeskog and Nuke. If Kreider doesn't bounce back, that's a big problem for them.


From the Rangers end...Kreider is having a disastrous season and it's certainly a worry that he may be over the hill...but when he's producing like normal, he's an important player to that team. Seems like before dealing away key players, i'd think they'd at least try a coaching change to see if whatever toxic malaise can be turned around. If they're actually shipping players like Kreider out to retool though, i'd think it'd be to bring in younger/cheaper players. If they really wanted a big physical presence RHD...i'd think they might've just kept Trouba until the summer anyway. And Wood is basically just dead weight to make the cap work for Colorado. The pick also doesn't really do much for them as if anything, they'll surely try for a quick retool rather than a blow it up rebuild. So the whole package just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Feels like it's kind of going in two directions at once.


So i'd think this is a proposal that both sides would just say no to.
 

bernmeister

Registered User
Jun 11, 2010
29,175
4,517
Da Big Apple
In the last 3 playoff years the Rangers have made two runs to the conference finals and Kreider played 43 playoff games and scored 24 goals which if was prorated to a full NHL season is somewhere around a 50 goal a year pace---only those were playoff games which are a bit of a different animal than regular season. He gets back to where he was (and the Rangers room is toxic now and there's a hammer over the player's heads) he has a pretty friendly contract for the production he can put up and a team picking him up can get up to 3 playoff runs with him before his term is up.

All the above has value. He's a proven playoff goal scorer. If a playoff bound team gets him in sync with his new team they will gain an edge on other teams. If I'm trading this guy (and I'm not Drury) I'm looking to go younger and young roster players, prospects, picks would be what I'd look at....not older vets. I'm guessing the Rangers will hit free agency in July with vets in mind but the moves they make now will be for younger assets. Anything else wouldn't make a lot of sense to me.

Also if I have a player that lots of teams want and I suspect a lot of teams will want Kreider---I'm going to field offers for the best deal I can. If a team wants to get ahead of others and do a deal for him sooner then that team will have to pony up something for real from the younger part of their pool. He is our best movable asset.

Manson and Wood aren't interesting to me.
gen agree
Avs not looking to deal Manson want to add D

something around stop gap Lindgren for not a big whoop Wood?
 

Bone Breaker

Registered User
Apr 2, 2015
1,770
984
Tokyo
Id love to see Kreider in the Avs but at this stage, with age apparently catching up to him, the time for that has passed already. the Kreider of a few years ago would be Avs 2nd-3rd best forward. the Kreider of now would be only a huge cap problem.
 

Antropovsky

Registered User
Jun 2, 2007
15,686
7,470
I like what Drury is doing... use every avenue. Organizations don't owe players anything as long as it's within the rules.
 

bernmeister

Registered User
Jun 11, 2010
29,175
4,517
Da Big Apple
Holy f*** absolutely a thousand times yes.
I said "something around"
were the term the same both expiring
I would have thought y9u return the nyr 2nd and I give you a slightly later pick

Unfortunately I now see Wood has 4 mo seasons
don't think ya gonna bridge that gap unless it is
zib going the other way

Howev, I will sell you Lindy now he is blocking Mancini from mins

what package to you suggest
Lindgren/+
for
Rs 2nd/+
?????

also MERRY CHRISTMAS everyone
go to my OT thread at the Rangers forum and enjoy my 'Christmas Day', described as the Bohemian Rhapsody of carols !!!!
 
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