Player Discussion Chris Kreider: Part III

[NYR94]

I think the slow starts for these players seem even slower than they actually are because the 4 games the Rangers have played have been spread out over 15 days. So what is really "slow start over the first 4 games" feels like in our minds "slow start over the first two weeks" which feels a lot longer. I think the wonky schedule at the beginning of the year helped nobody.

 

[True Blue]

show
me
the
munayyyyyy

Cale Makar has 6 assists in 6 games. Should we now consider him a top 5 defenseman in the league? Brett Connolly has 5 points in 6 games. Is he now a top 10 player in the league? Quinn Hughes has the same points as Brendan Smith. Is Smith as good as Hughes?

Jaime Benn has as many points as Kreider, but in twice as many games. Is he now a washed up hack? For that matter so too does Joe Pavelski. Does he now suck or is not a top line player? How about Jonathan Toews and his 1 point? He has less than Krieder. Guess that means that he is inferior to Kreider and has limited offensive ability.

 

[Leonardo87]

show
me
the
munayyyyyy

You had me at hello.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Cale Makar has 6 assists in 6 games. Should we now consider him a top 5 defenseman in the league? Brett Connolly has 5 points in 6 games. Is he now a top 10 player in the league? Quinn Hughes has the same points as Brendan Smith. Is Smith as good as Hughes?

Jaime Benn has as many points as Kreider, but in twice as many games. Is he now a washed up hack? For that matter so too does Joe Pavelski. Does he now suck or is not a top line player? How about Jonathan Toews and his 1 point? He has less than Krieder. Guess that means that he is inferior to Kreider and has limited offensive ability.

all good points.

it says that some very good players have had slow starts.

and some very good players have had solid starts. nothing more.

please show me where i called CK a "washed up hack" thats putting words in my mouth that i did not say.

what i did say was this. imo, he has limited offensive upside and thats because, i believe, his hockey sense and natural offensive ability is below that of a true top line scoring winger. his hands have always been so-so.

i have always felt CK to be a guy who leaves me wanting much more. hes prone to long stretches of cloaking invisibility and unproductive play. so far this year, hes consistent anyway. slow start and unproductive play.

i expect him to get going eventually. its not ryan strome fault. its not kakkos fault.

this years so far, hes been bad. real bad. nothing more.

lets hope tonight is better. we need him to be a monster.

 

[aufheben]

That can currently be said about a lot of players. But yes, he does need to step his game up as a leader of the team. But he has also started slowly in other seasons.

Can it? Nonetheless, he's one of three 1L forwards on the team; Nothing from him is a big loss.

 

[leetch99]

hes been real bad so far.

hes not a bust. hes not washed up. hes not injured. hes not pouting. its still only 4 games

but hes just not performing and last night was more of the same

spade a spade

Well...if he can't score then he should set the tone in a lot of games by hitting and hitting HARD . But....then he would have to back that up and he is a bit scared of that part of the game . It is too bad he never played his last year in OHL or WHL and got some choice seasoning to the physical aspect of the game for a 70 + game schedule. Big guy that plays soft on most nights ....

 

[True Blue]

all good points.

Dude, you are yelling SHOW ME THE MONEY AFTER 4 Games! THAT sounds rational??

what i did say was this. imo, he has limited offensive upside and thats because, i believe, his hockey sense and natural offensive ability is below that of a true top line scoring winger. his hands have always been so-so.

I have showed you stats. You have showed rantings. Find me the 30 better left wings or the 60 better overall wings. If you cannot, then one assumes that you need to accept the raw statistics and what the 5 year average has been. Which flies in the face of your statement that he is not a top line player. So aside from this, what are you showing besides personal bias for your assertion?

i have always felt CK to be a guy who leaves me wanting much more. hes prone to long stretches of cloaking invisibility and unproductive play. so far this year, hes consistent anyway. slow start and unproductive play.

He has the talent to be elite, but yet is just better than the majority. I get it. That does not change the fact that he is better than the great majority.

i expect him to get going eventually. its not ryan strome fault. its not kakkos fault.i expect him to get going eventually. its not ryan strome fault. its not kakkos fault.

No one is stating it is anyone's fault

this years so far, hes been bad. real bad. nothing more.

Please refer to the statistics that I have showed you for other players through 6-8 games

lets hope tonight is better. we need him to be a monster

The Rangers need him. Full stop.

 

[trunkslamchest]

Reposting my opinions of krieder from another thread:

The only thing I am disappointed/pissed about with this season so far is Kreider.

The guy has size, the speed, the ability, the potential. We have all seen it. But he never uses any of it. Ever. There are brief flashes of it once or twice a game and thats it.

He's either lazy as shit or had some injury I cant remember and no longer has any sort of perceivable grit or determination he needs to be the player we know he can be.

Maybe he doesn't really give a shit. Maybe all he cares about is getting paid. Maybe his "sports psychologist" did more harm than good. Maybe he thinks he doesnt have to work hard because of how much potential talent he knows he has. Who knows.

All I know is he doesn't play like the krieder he can be and its been this way his entire career and its gotten me to the boiling point.

Bottom line is in New York, even if you suck, we will appreciate and respect hard work. like Quickie. or Callahan. or Girardi. or f***ing Marc Staal. jesus, even Brendan f***ing Smith worked his balls off last night and beat the snot out of some guy, and im like f*** yea elite enforcer brendan smith gimme more of that shit.

But when we see someone slacking we jump up and yell "AYYYY YO BIG GUY MOVE YA FAHKIN FEETS I TOOK TREE DIFFERENT SUBWAYS TO GET TO THIS GAME AND YOURE SKATING AROUND LIKE A FAHKIN FAIRY OUT THERE YOU SHMUCK."

f***.

 

[NY Lito]

Kreider has been such a weird player for me over the length of his career here. He’s been an important player and has made positive contributions, no doubt about it. Even this season I still see some positives.

But overall, he’s always been incredibly frustrating. He’s an absolute athletic freak: speed, size, strength...he has them in spades. Yet how often does he truly assert himself? It’s always been like this, not just this year. With his athleticism and talent he should be a forechecking demon and one of the best true power forwards in the game. I gave up on him realizing this potential years ago.

I realize that despite this frustration he’s been more good than bad. But man, what could have been.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Reposting my opinions of krieder from another thread:

The only thing I am disappointed/pissed about with this season so far is Kreider.

The guy has size, the speed, the ability, the potential. We have all seen it. But he never uses any of it. Ever. There are brief flashes of it once or twice a game and thats it.

He's either lazy as **** or had some injury I cant remember and no longer has any sort of perceivable grit or determination he needs to be the player we know he can be.

Maybe he doesn't really give a ****. Maybe all he cares about is getting paid. Maybe his "sports psychologist" did more harm than good. Maybe he thinks he doesnt have to work hard because of how much potential talent he knows he has. Who knows.

All I know is he doesn't play like the krieder he can be and its been this way his entire career and its gotten me to the boiling point.

Bottom line is in New York, even if you suck, we will appreciate and respect hard work. like Quickie. or Callahan. or Girardi. or ****ing Marc Staal. jesus, even Brendan ****ing Smith worked his balls off last night and beat the snot out of some guy, and im like **** yea elite enforcer brendan smith gimme more of that ****.

But when we see someone slacking we jump up and yell "AYYYY YO BIG GUY MOVE YA FAHKIN FEETS I TOOK TREE DIFFERENT SUBWAYS TO GET TO THIS GAME AND YOURE SKATING AROUND LIKE A FAHKIN FAIRY OUT THERE YOU SHMUCK."

****.

what the hell section of MSG are you watching the game From?

 

[will1066]

Cale Makar has 6 assists in 6 games. Should we now consider him a top 5 defenseman in the league? Brett Connolly has 5 points in 6 games. Is he now a top 10 player in the league? Quinn Hughes has the same points as Brendan Smith. Is Smith as good as Hughes?

Jaime Benn has as many points as Kreider, but in twice as many games. Is he now a washed up hack? For that matter so too does Joe Pavelski. Does he now suck or is not a top line player? How about Jonathan Toews and his 1 point? He has less than Krieder. Guess that means that he is inferior to Kreider and has limited offensive ability.

Yes to all

 

[Blair]

I didn’t notice a more appropriate topic here to ask this so I hope you don’t mind, but I’m in a position where I can pick up Kreider in my fantasy pool. It would cost me Buchnevich to do so however. Any help from the NYR faithful on whether or not to get it done would be much appreciated. Skater categories are goals, assists, gwg, +/-, faceoff wins, hits, and blocks.

 

[Larrybiv]

I didn’t notice a more appropriate topic here to ask this so I hope you don’t mind, but I’m in a position where I can pick up Kreider in my fantasy pool. It would cost me Buchnevich to do so however. Any help from the NYR faithful on whether or not to get it done would be much appreciated. Skater categories are goals, assists, gwg, +/-, faceoff wins, hits, and blocks.

Without looking I would say its a wash. Could go either way. I think we are all "hoping" that Buch can really make his mark, and it is a guessing game with Kreider. Honestly, I think Kreids is playing like a pansy (afraid to get injured?) Who knows, in this his contract year. My personal feeling is the REFS have castrated him many years ago (with all that tadoo about running Price and other goalies). He is so strong, he has almost killed a few players (once upon a time) and seems to have had to step it back a notch, in order to stay in the league. Maybe that sounds out there.....but that is my sentiment.

He will get PAID regardless of where.......but I really believe he will RETURN to being somewhat of a monster......once he cashes in. I could be wrong.

 

[ZiGOODejad]

Honestly wanted to come in here, call this guy a bum and leave. But that’s in poor taste I’ll say I can’t ever remember him having a great start to a season but this is by far one of his least memorable starts for sure.

 

[Bring Back Avery]

My personal feeling is the REFS have castrated him many years ago (with all that tadoo about running Price and other goalies). He is so strong, he has almost killed a few players (once upon a time) and seems to have had to step it back a notch, in order to stay in the league. Maybe that sounds out there.....but that is my sentiment.

I was thinking pretty much the same thing. But I also think AV had a hand in it as well. Basically punishing him whenever he took a penalty for running guys over. It might've messed with his head a bit.

 

[Larrybiv]

I was thinking pretty much the same thing. But I also think AV had a hand in it as well. Basically punishing him whenever he took a penalty for running guys over. It might've messed with his head a bit.

Good call. AV was well known for "nothing between the whistles". He took a "hard to play against" team, and turned them into a bunch of gjrlscouts. I despised AV for that, even more than his juggling and his phony pressers.
Also......he did get suspended at least once, if not a couple times. Maybe he didnt care for the league to dip in to his pocketbook?
Hey, could be a combo of all 3, but regardless he isnt and really has NEVER become what we all thought he would be.
Wonder if when he signs that next contract and possibly playing with a different organization and what that org.'s reputation is, if he will be allowed to "let the pigeons loose". I wonder if he ever will be that animal and wouldn't surprise me in the least if he did just that.

 

[romba]

Every time CK would breathe on another player he'd get penalized for charging or roughing or some stupid shit like that. The penalty was warranted like 40% of the time but CK learned if the hit looks bad, whether legal or not, he was getting called for it due to his size and speed and violent look of the hit. Then AV would come down HARD on him too after the fact and he learned to stay out of the box. But he also learned not to throw his weight around. He either gently glides into hits or tries to do a half hit (still gets penalized for these occasionally lmao), knocking his man off the puck without inflicting 'damage' and therefore avoiding being penalized. But this style also ends up being only slightly more effective than say, Jesper Fast, who's a quarter of his size and like 85% of his speed. Such a shame and not his fault at all.

 

[JHS]

Kreider has been such a weird player for me over the length of his career here. He’s been an important player and has made positive contributions, no doubt about it. Even this season I still see some positives.

But overall, he’s always been incredibly frustrating. He’s an absolute athletic freak: speed, size, strength...he has them in spades. Yet how often does he truly assert himself? It’s always been like this, not just this year. With his athleticism and talent he should be a forechecking demon and one of the best true power forwards in the game. I gave up on him realizing this potential years ago.

I realize that despite this frustration he’s been more good than bad. But man, what could have been.

I basically echo these points. Never have I watched a player who could have been so dominant look so invisible. Kreider’s problem is he refuses to play a tough game and just floats around on the ice. With that speed, and with that size, he could have been a beloved Ranger who played a good solid two way hockey game, threw the big hit, got in guys faces, protected teammates and still scored 20-25 goals a season. He just never did any of those things that would make him beloved by us fans. Instead, he basically does the opposite.

Here’s the thing, people keep posting about his potential— he’s in the prime of his career right now. He is what he is at this point. What he is would be a serviceable first line/second line winger on a bad team and second line guy on a good team. Nothing wrong with that but time to face the reality that his future won’t be better than his present anymore at this stage of his career.

 

[Larrybiv]

I basically echo these points. Never have I watched a player who could have been so dominant look so invisible. Kreider’s problem is he refuses to play a tough game and just floats around on the ice. With that speed, and with that size, he could have been a beloved Ranger who played a good solid two way hockey game, threw the big hit, got in guys faces, protected teammates and still scored 20-25 goals a season. He just never did any of those things that would make him beloved by us fans. Instead, he basically does the opposite.

Here’s the thing, people keep posting about his potential— he’s in the prime of his career right now. He is what he is at this point. What he is would be a serviceable first line/second line winger on a bad team and second line guy on a good team. Nothing wrong with that but time to face the reality that his future won’t be better than his present anymore at this stage of his career.

I may be of the minority, but I am gonna have to beg to differ with this. He has THREE amazing qualities. Size, Strength and Speed. The 3 S's if you will. Only his speed may dwindle a little but nevertheless.......these are things that could carry him well into his 40's if he felt like playing at that point. I mean, look no further than Jaromir. Obviously not exactly alike (dont we wish) as far as talent......but is this wrong? I dont think so. JJ was not exactly a speed demon........so........
Anyway, if we know ONE thing about Kreider, its the fact that he has gotten BETTER in some beneficial areas. Specifically being a net front presence, and probably only 2nd best to that knucklehead in San José, I think Pavelski is his name, lol.
I guess my point is, I agree that he has left us wanting more, but circumstances (like I firmly believe about previous posts being spot on, in regard to the officials/coaching) has gotten him where he is now, still not a bad player.
I absolutely do not think he will decline, and actually still has a shot at becoming a better goal scorer depending on his linemates......whether with the Rangers or not. Only time, passion (or lack thereof) and $$$$$$ will tell. But, certainly not Father Time. He just may be the select few that can beat it.
And yes......he will get shorter someday, but not in his hockey lifetime.

 

[True Blue]

Here’s the thing, people keep posting about his potential— he’s in the prime of his career right now. He is what he is at this point. What he is would be a serviceable first line/second line winger on a bad team and second line guy on a good team.

What he is is a legit top line wing in the entire NHL. Debate where he is on the scale, like or dislike his up and down play, but the fact that he is a top liner is undeniable. Look at the league average in goals and points for wings and then look at Kreider. Hate it or not, he is a legit top line wing. And there are only x amount of those in the league.

 

[JHS]

What he is is a legit top line wing in the entire NHL. Debate where he is on the scale, like or dislike his up and down play, but the fact that he is a top liner is undeniable. Look at the league average in goals and points for wings and then look at Kreider. Hate it or not, he is a legit top line wing. And there are only x amount of those in the league.

He’s having a hard time sticking on the Rangers first line so it’s hard for me to think he would stick on a top teams first line. Statistics show end results but Kreider does not pass the eye test. He makes no one around him any better and to me, that’s the true indication of a first line type player.

I hope you are right though and that I’m underestimating how the league looks at him. I’d love for the Rangers to be able to get a top talent or high pick for him alwhen he’s moved.

 

[B17 Apricots]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Zucc start off last year bad too? Knowing he was gonna get traded and they pretty much had to talk to him then he refocused and took off. Maybe Kreiders struggling with that

 

[Irishguy42]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Zucc start off last year bad too? Knowing he was gonna get traded and they pretty much had to talk to him then he refocused and took off. Maybe Kreiders struggling with that

Yes. Zucc wasn't great to start the season, and then the calendar flipped and he went nuts.

 

[Barnaby]

What he is is a legit top line wing in the entire NHL. Debate where he is on the scale, like or dislike his up and down play, but the fact that he is a top liner is undeniable. Look at the league average in goals and points for wings and then look at Kreider. Hate it or not, he is a legit top line wing. And there are only x amount of those in the league.

You aren't wrong to say CK is a first line player because he's a top 60 winger in this league. On the other hand, Kreider as a first liner is similar to Stepan having been a top line center, because he'd have been a top 30 center. It's not mathematically wrong, but at the same time, no playoff bound team would likely consider it ideal to have Stepan as their top center. I see Kreider as more of a complimentary player on your top line. A nice player for sure, but never your go-to guy.

I've just seen enough from CK. His inconsistency and likely salary are just too much for me. Add to that his age, and I can see the back end of that new deal as horrific. He hasn't taken the next step like many of us hoped he would. He plays the PP, but not the PK which was always a disappointment to me since he has such an amazing skill set, but I guess he lacks the hockey IQ. He's a 50 point player who brings a unique skill set. I guess I believe he is a first liner, but I'm not crazy about paying him like one.

He had a good run here, and I enjoyed watching him play, but I think it's time to move on. It's more likely at the deadline, but I'm taking a first rounder plus a sweetener as soon as I can get it.

 

[True Blue]

He’s having a hard time sticking on the Rangers first line so it’s hard for me to think he would stick on a top teams first line. Statistics show end results but Kreider does not pass the eye test. He makes no one around him any better and to me, that’s the true indication of a first line type player.

I hope you are right though and that I’m underestimating how the league looks at him. I’d love for the Rangers to be able to get a top talent or high pick for him alwhen he’s moved.

You are completely underestimating how the world views him. Again, the guy is a top line player. Now we can debate where in the hierarchy he is, but that does not change the fact of what he is.