Chris Kreider/JT Miller Discussion Thread (2/16: Kreider recalled to NHL)

[Kershaw]

Because you yourself say he's a 12-15 goal scorer. He's not a 20 goal scorer.

I can see Boyle hitting 20 again some day.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I can see Boyle hitting 20 again some day.

Yeah ok. The guy has slightly more offensive skill than Rupp. If he hits 10 I'll be happy.

 

[Kershaw]

Yeah ok. The guy has slightly more offensive skill than Rupp. If he hits 10 I'll be happy.

Boyles GPG/PPG obliterates Rupp's out the water.

Callahan has offensive skill of a 3rd-4th line grinder, guess we should trade him for Zherdev.

 

[McSauer]

I can see Boyle hitting 20 again some day.

HAHAHHAHA maybe in ECHL! Boyle is a FRINGE 4th line player...

Keep throwing out these stats about he is an adequate 3rd line center, and then maybe try watching him on the ice: NO hockey sense, NO finish, NO IDEA on how to use his size. We've all had enough of his uselessness and I'm SO GLAD Torts finally sees it too...

 

[JohnC]

Yikes...people get really off topic really easily here

 

[Jabroni]

Yikes...people get really off topic really easily here

Agreed. Enough talking about Boyle here. There's another thread to talk about Boyle.

 

[StepansLabyrinth]

Callahan has offensive skill of a 3rd-4th line grinder...

I'm pretty sure you don't know what a 3rd/4th line grinder is.

 

[Machinehead]

This line is where Callahan's leadership comes in. An established player and calming presence like him can give two young rookies confidence, but he's not such a star player to the point where he intimidates and will have them passing non-stop.

Callahan has offensive skill of a 3rd-4th line grinder, guess we should trade him for Zherdev.

There's not a legit bottom 6 grinder in the league that has a shot like Callahan's. He can straight up snipe it. I can deal with Callahan on the 3rd line because I'm more of a top 9, bottom 3 kinda guy as opposed to top 6, bottom 6, a la the New Jersey Devils.

That being said this talentless grinder talk has to stop. I really don't feel like going onto youtube and grabbing the many videos of Callahan ripping one top shelf.

 

[Kershaw]

There's not a legit bottom 6 grinder in the league that has a shot like Callahan's. He can straight up snipe it. I can deal with Callahan on the 3rd line because I'm more of a top 9, bottom 3 kinda guy as opposed to top 6, bottom 6, a la the New Jersey Devils.

That being said this talentless grinder talk has to stop. I really don't feel like going onto youtube and grabbing the many videos of Callahan ripping one top shelf.

I think he has a very average NHL skillset. Don't see what separates his skills from say a guy like Horcoff.

 

[Kershaw]

I'm pretty sure you don't know what a 3rd/4th line grinder is.

Horcoff, Dubinsky, Stoll, Hansen, Steen. I'd say Callahan belongs in that group in terms of strict skill.

 

[Machinehead]

Horcoff, Dubinsky, Stoll, Hansen, Steen. I'd say Callahan belongs in that group in terms of strict skill.

Point production over the last 3 years

Horcoff: 39
Dubinsky: 44
Stoll: 37
Hansen: 31
Steen: 50 (not sure why you included him, he's very clearly a top 6 player)

Callahan: 46

Goals over the last 3 years:

Horcoff: 14
Dubinsky: 18
Stoll: 14
Hansen: 14
Steen: 24

Callahan: 26

So as you see here, Callahan is clearly a better point producer than everyone except Dubinsky who is arguably a top 6 player, and Steen who is without a doubt. And he's a vastly superior goal scorer to everyone there, again except Steen who is indisputably imo a top 6 scorer.

**Some stats are adjusted for injuries.

 

[Fitzy]

If Callahan is a third liner, he is one who is a top contributor on the PP and PK for this team. Labels are crap... he does as much for this team, with everything combined as any other forward on this team, with the very possible exception of an in-form Brad Richards.

 

[nyr33]

This line is where Callahan's leadership comes in. An established player and calming presence like him can give two young rookies confidence, but he's not such a star player to the point where he intimidates and will have them passing non-stop.



There's not a legit bottom 6 grinder in the league that has a shot like Callahan's. He can straight up snipe it. I can deal with Callahan on the 3rd line because I'm more of a top 9, bottom 3 kinda guy as opposed to top 6, bottom 6, a la the New Jersey Devils.

That being said this talentless grinder talk has to stop. I really don't feel like going onto youtube and grabbing the many videos of Callahan ripping one top shelf.

Youtube doesn't have video's of callahan shooting into a goalies chest. He has an average shot.

 

[Machinehead]

Youtube doesn't have video's of callahan shooting into a goalies chest. He has an average shot.

Every player takes bad shots. Wayne Gretzky took bad shots.

 

[Callagraves]

Youtube doesn't have video's of callahan shooting into a goalies chest. He has an average shot.

He has an above average shot. Not Gaborik or Neal caliber, but he's a shooter.

 

[Fitzy]

90% of it is getting into the position to get a shot off. The other 10% is the shot. Players with great shots don't produce in the NHL for that reason. So when it comes down to just how great a wrist shot Cally has I really don't mind, because he has the best goal-mouth instincts on our team save perhaps Gaborik, and we want Gabby more on the periphery on the PP.

 

[LittleKev6D9]

I can deal with Callahan on the 3rd line because I'm more of a top 9, bottom 3 kinda guy as opposed to top 6, bottom 6, a la the New Jersey Devils.

I completely agree with this statement here. That's why when I put together what I think lines might look like in my head I might put Nash, Richards and Gaborik on 3 completely different lines. I prefer to have 3 lines that can score at the same rate, and have a grinding line, than having our top 2 lines scoring at a very high rate with our bottom 2 lines just grinding out games and chipping in here and there with goals.

 

[Gresch04]

The point I was making across is that just because they are highly ranked prospects, doesn't mean they're guaranteed to be elite players. This is the case with Anisimov who was the best prospect in the system all the way to being known as a tweener in a matter of 2 years. Same thing with Kreider and Miller, both are highly touted prospects right now, but I doubt they become anything more than another Anisimov or Dubinsky.

Krieder and Miller have their own individual potential - they're not any more or less likely to succeed because two other guys in the universe didn't.

 

[thepoeticgoblin]

This line does seem to have a lot of potential. I do think Boyler is too good to be left out permanently though.

 

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

Youtube doesn't have video's of callahan shooting into a goalies chest. He has an average shot.

Average shot, and above-average everything else. If Callahan hade a great shot, he'd be one of the best players in the league.

He doesn't need a great shot to be an effective 2-way, top-6 player though.

Erik Christensen has a terrific shot. Is he a better player than Callahan?

 

[Kershaw]

Point production over the last 3 years

Horcoff: 39
Dubinsky: 44
Stoll: 37
Hansen: 31
Steen: 50 (not sure why you included him, he's very clearly a top 6 player)

Callahan: 46
Goals over the last 3 years:

Horcoff: 14
Dubinsky: 18
Stoll: 14
Hansen: 14
Steen: 24

Callahan: 26

So as you see here, Callahan is clearly a better point producer than everyone except Dubinsky who is arguably a top 6 player, and Steen who is without a doubt. And he's a vastly superior goal scorer to everyone there, again except Steen who is indisputably imo a top 6 scorer.

**Some stats are adjusted for injuries.

I'm only talking in terms of hockey skill in terms of shot, skating, passing, vision, which is where Callahan belongs in this group. Also Steen plays behind Backes and Berglund as 3C. Horcoff and Stoll also both had 65+ pt seasons each once in their careers, but neither hit it consistently. I doubt Callahan ever hits 60 pts in his career, too much of a grinder to do so.

 

[The Gloaming]

I'm only talking in terms of hockey skill in terms of shot, skating, passing, vision, which is where Callahan belongs in this group. Also Steen plays behind Backes and Berglund as 3C. Horcoff and Stoll also both had 65+ pt seasons each once in their careers, but neither hit it consistently. I doubt Callahan ever hits 60 pts in his career, too much of a grinder to do so.

He had 54 points in 76 games last year. That's adjusted to 58 in 82. Are those last 2 points going to make the difference on whether or not he's a grinder? Please name me some 3rd/4th line grinders who scored 54 points last year. They had to have actually played on these lines. I'll be waiting.

 

[Kershaw]

He had 54 points in 76 games last year. That's adjusted to 58 in 82. Are those last 2 points going to make the difference on whether or not he's a grinder? Please name me some 3rd/4th line grinders who scored 54 points last year. They had to have actually played on these lines. I'll be waiting.

I didn't say Callahan is a 3rd/4th line player, rather he has the skillset of a 3rd line grinder but can play a 2nd line role.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I didn't say Callahan is a 3rd/4th line player, rather he has the skillset of a 3rd line grinder but can play a 2nd line role.

His goal last night should make you think otherwise regarding his skillset.

The only skill that is sub-top 6 forward for Callahan is his decision and play making skills on the rush. He generally looks like hes operating in a silo when carrying the puck through the neutral zone. Tunnel vision.

Thats about it though. Not enough for me to put his entire skill set in "3rd line grinder" territory.

 

[The Gloaming]

I didn't say Callahan is a 3rd/4th line player, rather he has the skillset of a 3rd line grinder but can play a 2nd line role.

What BRB said. He's poor on the rush. However, his hands and shot most definitely do not make for a 3rd line skillset.