Chris Kreider/JT Miller Discussion Thread (2/16: Kreider recalled to NHL)

[Bardof425*]

There are anomalies like Cheechoo and Graves even scored 50 but honestly, its not the kind of thing you predict. If something magical like that happens it just sort of does. I could say Stepan has a shot in hell of a 40 goal season, doesn't mean I'm going to try to call it beforehand.

Nobody called it. I said he could score 40 and he mocked it as if it was impossible. That's how we got here.

 

[Kershaw]

It's as likely as Boyle hitting 30g imo.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

It's as likely as Boyle hitting 30g imo.

So you think that Boyle is as likely to hit 30 as Kreider is to 40? So you think Boyle is 10 goals worse than Kreider?

 

[Kershaw]

So you think that Boyle is as likely to hit 30 as Kreider is to 40? So you think Boyle is 10 goals worse than Kreider?

Yeah, Boyle is a decent 12-15 goal scorer IMO. Kreider should be a decent 20-25g scorer with possibly a season of 30 or two.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Yeah, Boyle is a decent 12-15 goal scorer IMO. Kreider should be a decent 20-25g scorer with possibly a season of 30 or two.

Boyle hit 12 goals once in his career. Granted he had 11 last year. His game trending down this year too before the change.

 

[Kreider Typical]

I'd prefer not to have our 2 best wingers on the same line and 2 guys like Hagelin and Pyatt on the 2nd line. That's stacking the first line again. I don't think Richards is good enough to have a consistently producing line with Hagelin and Pyatt. A little more balance would be splitting up Nash and Gabori and having one play with Richards and one with Stepan.

i did not intend to suggest they play together, i was just listing. i don't think our top six is going to ever be a set thing this season-- or our top line for that matter. tort's goal is apparently to make it so that anybody can play with anybody at any time-- hence gaborik and nash knowing both wings.

personally i liked pyatt with gabby the other night. more puck control than hagelin. less rushed to make a play. nash handles puck control on his own and having hagelin's speed with him is deadly and hags will get tons of tap ins from him

 

[BBKers]

Boyle hit 12 goals once in his career. Granted he had 11 last year. His game trending down this year too before the change.

Must be a typo
Boyle had 21 goals in 2010/2011
And 14 last year (including the playoffs which kinda count)
http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8470619

Just saying
This year he looks pretty harmless though

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

He was ruined by the coaching staff. Hard not to shatter a player's confidence by playing him with plugs to start his career.

Anisimov?

What a bunch of baloney. He was given every chance to succeed here. The reality is his offensive skill set (which is clearly there) is a tick slow for the NHL and, perhaps more importantly, he is and likely always will be a soft player.

 

[BBKers]

Anisimov?

What a bunch of baloney. He was given every chance to succeed here. The reality is his offensive skill set (which is clearly there) is a tick slow for the NHL and, perhaps more importantly, he is and likely always will be a soft player.

Right now Anisimov (4) has double the amount of goals this season compared to that of Rick Nash (2) has since the trade was made. Anisimov has had 17:44 of PP time so far opposed to Nash having had 37:16. Nash has mostly been playing with Brad Richards and Marian Gaborik while Anisimov has a totally different set of players around him. Anismimov has a current caphit of $1,8M and Nash of $7,8M.

Small sample size yes - and this does not make Nash a bust or anything - but still... instant success in NYC is truly a relative term. No?

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Right now Anisimov (4) has double the amount of goals this season compared to that of Rick Nash (2) has since the trade was made. Anisimov has had 17:44 of PP time so far opposed to Nash having had 37:16. Nash has mostly been playing with Brad Richards and Marian Gaborik while Anisimov has a totally different set of players around him. Anismimov has a current caphit of $1,8M and Nash of $7,8M.

Small sample size yes - and this does not make Nash a bust or anything - but still... instant success in NYC is truly a relative term. No?

Small sample size doesnt even begin to describe it.

Lets see where those numbers are in late March.

 

[BBKers]

Small sample size doesnt even begin to describe it.

Lets see where those numbers are in late March.

My point is that success in New York is never a certain thing
The past proves that
We had better see a drastic change of numbers by late March
Otherwise we are in a deep pile of fertilizer

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

My point is that success in New York is never a certain thing
The past proves that
We had better see a drastic change of numbers by late March
Otherwise we are in a deep pile of fertilizer

So was the organization wrong in trying to address a major goal scoring problem? Or should they not have done anything because of the past?

 

[JCrusher*]

miller and kreider have good chemistry. cally makes guys around him skate and check. great combo on paper and in play. kreider seems a little lazy sometimes. miller's playmaking and cally's perseverance force kreider to use his jets. great energy line, big bodies, and a scoring touch.

if they continue to play well, our top 9 looks great


nash/stepan/gaborik (not set lines, just roster)
hagelin/richards/pyatt (not set lines just roster)
kreider/miller/callahan

and our bottom 3 doesn't look bad in a minimal minute role either:
boyle(asham)/halpern/powe

Thank You Jesus. Finally somebody commented on the topic. I agree with you 100%.

 

[BBKers]

So was the organization wrong in trying to address a major goal scoring problem? Or should they not have done anything because of the past?

It was not wrong - if they in reality have now addressed that problem. I agree with you 100% there. And Rick Nash is a 1st overall pick - that has played in obscurity on an awful team in Columbus all his career. But he needs to show a lot more on the scoresheet than he has so far. If you are happy with the results (5% shooting percentage, no PP goals...) so far then that is your entitlement.

In addition to the already mentioned ("non successful") Artem Anisimov - that was a 2nd rounder (#54 overall) - we also gave up a heap of previously acquired assets through our drafts.

How does:

• 2nd round NYR pick (#60 overall) Brandon Dubinsky - now in the NHL - of the 2004 draft
• 1st round pick (#21 overall) Bobby Sanguinetti - now in the NHL - of the 2006 draft
• 5th round (127th overall) pick Roman Horak - now in the NHL - of the 2009 draft
• 2nd round NYR pick (#45 overall) in 2011
• 1st round NYR pick coming in 2013

Sound??

oops, forgot, we get back a conditional 3rd round pick and an AHL scrub defender (Delisle)too...
And Jesper Fast as well...

For this kind of a ransom we need better results

 

[Bardof425*]

It's as likely as Boyle hitting 30g imo.

That's just dumb. Boyle doesn't have any skill that would lead him to 30. When he got 20 it was the luckiest two months a player could have. CK has mad speed and a great shot. In the right situation that could lead to a lot of goals. 40? who knows. But comparing CK and BB in relations to goal scoring is just ridiculous.

 

[Bardof425*]

Must be a typo
Boyle had 21 goals in 2010/2011
And 14 last year (including the playoffs which kinda count)
http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8470619

Just saying
This year he looks pretty harmless though

Playoffs don't kinda count. And his 21 was all done in NOv and Dec of that season. They he went bone dry and has been that way since. He is an offensive black hole. And he NEVER sets up a goal. The vast majority of his assists are second assists and rebounds. No passing skills whatsoever.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Quite often stars/superstars play on top lines with role players on teams. A top line doesn't have to consist of superstar players. Hags and Pyatt are very good complimentary players. It's not like Boyle is playing on the top 2 lines. Those guys can bring a lot of value to their lines.

Best example of this was Jere Lehtinen playing with Mike Modano and Brett Hull in Dallas. McCarty played for a bit with Yzerman and Shanny in Detroit while the 3 Russians (Larionov, Fedorov and Kozlov) were their other scoring line.

I think Kreider will be a SERIOUS disappointment if he doesn't match Anisimov's NYR production. I think it's safe to say the same about Miller, though he wasn't as highly touted.

I don't think we'll have to worry about that.

Meh, 50 points is a just uninformative to describe a player's traits. I doubt either become constant 60+ pt threats like some people are expecting.

Millers draft projection was Mason Raymond (who has broken 50 pts once in his career) and our own head scout commented that he's similar to Dubinsky (who has also broken 50 points once in his career). There seems nothing so far in their careers to suggest they are anything more than that. Both should be fine role players that contribute to 35-50 pts on a yearly basis.

Miller easily has a higher hockey IQ than Mason Raymond and Dubinsky. Not a knock at either player, but I've seen more than enough of Raymond to know it's not Raymond's AMAZING hockey smarts that get him points. It's his blazing speed.

1. Artem Anisimov
2. Evgeny Grachev
3. Michael Del Zotto
4. Bobby Sanguinetti
5. Ryan McDonagh
6. Derek Stepan
7. Matt Gilroy
8. Chris Kreider
9. Michael Sauer
10. Ethan Werek

The fact that he's ahead of MDZ and McDonagh shows you all you need to know about these. Gilroy was ahead of Kreider and Sauer. Who cares how fans voted anyway? Besides at some point Kreider was our #1 prospect too.

LOL, you didn't even mention Sanguinetti being ahead of McDonagh and Stepan.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Must be a typo
Boyle had 21 goals in 2010/2011
And 14 last year (including the playoffs which kinda count)
http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8470619

Just saying
This year he looks pretty harmless though

Yeah but he played like 16 playoff games (off the top of my head). You can't include the playoffs and say he's a 12-15 goal scorer. I mean how far do you want to go? You can add the 2 seasons and say he's a 30 goal scorer.

 

[Kershaw]

Boyle hit 12 goals once in his career. Granted he had 11 last year. His game trending down this year too before the change.

Brian Boyle Career GPG: 0.157
Per 82 GP Season on Average: 12.88g/82 game season.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Brian Boyle Career GPG: 0.157
Per 82 GP Season on Average: 12.88g/82 game season.

Aided greatly by his fluke year.

 

[Kershaw]

Anisimov?

What a bunch of baloney. He was given every chance to succeed here. The reality is his offensive skill set (which is clearly there) is a tick slow for the NHL and, perhaps more importantly, he is and likely always will be a soft player.

He was given chance, but it was too late.

 

[JCrusher*]

He was given chance, but it was too late.

is AA your favorite player?

 

[Kershaw]

Aided greatly by his fluke year.

And how was it a fluke? He shot less than 10% that year in terms of shooting percentage.

And why are we just throwing out a year? If we can do that, might as well take out his first full rookie season where he barely got minutes.

 

[Kershaw]

is AA your favorite player?

No. My favorite player is Lundqvist....

 

[SnowblindNYR]

And how was it a fluke? He shot less than 10% that year in terms of shooting percentage.

And why are we just throwing out a year? If we can do that, might as well take out his first full rookie season where he barely got minutes.

Because you yourself say he's a 12-15 goal scorer. He's not a 20 goal scorer.