Chris Kreider/JT Miller Discussion Thread (2/16: Kreider recalled to NHL)

[SnowblindNYR]

For what his value was last year, and what we could have gotten for him when we were playing our best hockey in 18 years, he needed to be a difference maker now. We missed the boat.

The chance to win has come, and it might already be gone. Kreider could be a good player in a couple of years but nobody knows what that's gonna mean, probably nothing because the cap situation just about guarantees a downgrade form the current squad.

But Nash on the 2011-12 Rangers could have meant a Stanley Cup.

Kreider was a difference maker in the playoffs. Nash in 11-12 could have meant Cup or could have meant no cup (more likely) and a worse team for years to come.

 

[Machinehead]

Kreider was a difference maker in the playoffs. Nash in 11-12 could have meant Cup or could have meant no cup (more likely) and a worse team this year.

A worse team this year?

There's no Dubi on this team, there's no Arty on this team, and now there's no Kreider.

It's the same team whether we deal Kreider or not. The difference is Nash would have come when we were playing good. You have a Cup contender, you go for it. We did nothing at the deadline and we're gonna regret it.

And we did nothing at the deadline in large part to keep a kid that has done nothing to help this year's team.

I don't care about "years to come." We had a contender last year.

 

[Dorado*]

CK = Jason Chimera 2.0 ( if he's lucky ) . Really doesn't appear to have a feel for the game of hockey at a pro level . He just can't free wheel through an entire team like in Bean pot tourneys especially under Torts the Short bench buffoon . Third line checking wing / maybe eventually a good PKer .

 

[Kershaw]

A worse team this year?

There's no Dubi on this team, there's no Arty on this team, and now there's no Kreider.

It's the same team whether we deal Kreider or not. The difference is Nash would have come when we were playing good. You have a Cup contender, you go for it. We did nothing at the deadline and we're gonna regret it.

And we did nothing at the deadline in large part to keep a kid that has done nothing to help this year's team.

I don't care about "years to come." We had a contender last year.

I doubt we beat NJ that year even with Nash. They simply dominated us in all facets of the game. I doubt Nash would've changed that, and Kreider was big in our 2 wins in that series, no guarantee Nash replicates that.

 

[broadwayblue]

I doubt we beat NJ that year even with Nash. They simply dominated us in all facets of the game. I doubt Nash would've changed that, and Kreider was big in our 2 wins in that series, no guarantee Nash replicates that.

Exactly. We likely wouldn't have fared as well if we had dealt for Nash last year.

 

[Callagraves]

I doubt we beat NJ that year even with Nash. They simply dominated us in all facets of the game. I doubt Nash would've changed that, and Kreider was big in our 2 wins in that series, no guarantee Nash replicates that.

We actually agree on something. Well, not entirely.

That series wasn't domination. They won solidly, but far from dominating.

Our roster wasn't what lost us that series, the way we played so far under our potential was.

 

[Machinehead]

I doubt we beat NJ that year even with Nash. They simply dominated us in all facets of the game. I doubt Nash would've changed that, and Kreider was big in our 2 wins in that series, no guarantee Nash replicates that.

There's no guarantee but we still should have gone for it, especially because, considering how alarmingly bad Kreider has been, it probably wouldn't have made a difference.

Now we have Nash and what's he playing with? A Brad Richards that has aged 15 years in 6 months, the return of 2011 Gaborik, a very meh Lundqvist and a team that is showing no heart, no gumption, and no intelligence.

Compare that to last year, where Richards was a beast in the playoffs, Gaborik was our best forward, Lundqvist won the Vezina, and the team was playing almost perfect in terms of not blowing leads and taking dumb penalties.

You gotta pick the fruit when it's ripe.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I doubt we beat NJ that year even with Nash. They simply dominated us in all facets of the game. I doubt Nash would've changed that, and Kreider was big in our 2 wins in that series, no guarantee Nash replicates that.

Wow, even the guy that constantly bashes Kreider understands this. Who the hell knows if Nash does enough to beat NJ. Not like Kreider was a nonfactor. Nash would likely be better, but enough better to beat NJ who dominated us? If we beat NJ, where's the guarantee we beat the Kings?

 

[Drewbackatu*]

Kreider was pretty productive in the playoffs. Stepan is our #2 center. We were playing Stu ****ing Bickel as a 6th defenseman. Where's the guarantee that if we dealt either of these guys we'd have a cup?

A guarantee you want? Lol!
The point is the window of opportunity was wide open last year with teams we had no prayer of beating in a playoff series(Bruins, Pens) knocked out in the 1st round.

If for arguments sake we had Nash last year, don't you think our chances would have been a lot better against the Devils??

When you're trading for an elite talent like a Nash, etc, you can't label players like Stepan(1 goal in 25 games in the playoffs), Del Zotto(who looks at times like he was just introduced to the position of defense) or even Kreider(who may have a special skillset but who has proven absolutely nothing so far!) as
"untouchables!!". Ridiculous!

 

[Machinehead]

You could have a whole team of Gretzky's. There's still never a "guarantee" of winning the Cup.

But despite that you still take your best shot with your best team and we didn't.

 

[Callagraves]

There's no guarantee but we still should have gone for it, especially because, considering how alarmingly bad Kreider has been, it probably wouldn't have made a difference.

Now we have Nash and what's he playing with? A Brad Richards that has aged 15 years in 6 months, the return of 2011 Gaborik, a very meh Lundqvist and a team that is showing no heart, no gumption, and no intelligence.

Compare that to last year, where Richards was a beast in the playoffs, Gaborik was our best forward, Lundqvist won the Vezina, and the team was playing almost perfect in terms of not blowing leads and taking dumb penalties.

You gotta pick the fruit when it's ripe.

Come on, you know better than that.

Richards is sucking. Players slump. It won't continue.

Gaborik is playing well, when he's playing well. He's suffering from the above mentioned poor play from B-Rich.

Lundqvist had a human-like showing in 3 or so games, and then Got his **** together. He's been good since.

The team has been playing better, but we know they've got more in them. They just went 4-1-1, and still aren't at their best.

 

[Drewbackatu*]

You could have a whole team of Gretzky's. There's still never a "guarantee" of winning the Cup.

But despite that you still take your best shot with your best team and we didn't.

Exactly! The biggest problem this organization has had and will continue to have is the "smug, pompous, a-hole who sits in the GM chair for life.

 

[Callagraves]

You could have a whole team of Gretzky's. There's still never a "guarantee" of winning the Cup.

But despite that you still take your best shot with your best team and we didn't.

It was a good move not to trade for Nash. Howson was asking for way too much. You can't remove that many players and prospects from a team doing that well.

 

[Machinehead]

Come on, you know better than that.

Richards is sucking. Players slump. It won't continue.

Gaborik is playing well, when he's playing well. He's suffering from the above mentioned poor play from B-Rich.

Lundqvist had a human-like showing in 3 or so games, and then Got his **** together. He's been good since.

The team has been playing better, but we know they've got more in them. They just went 4-1-1, and still aren't at their best.

It's not about the record. This team is just doing things contenders don't do.

It's not all about talent and points. They have talent, and as such they will get their share of points. But championship teams play clean. That's the important thing. The Rangers, I would argue, are the sloppiest team in the league.

 

[broadwayblue]

Exactly! The biggest problem this organization has had and will continue to have is the "smug, pompous, a-hole who sits in the GM chair for life.

So he sticks to the plan of not trading youth for vets and now he's the problem? hilarious.

 

[Machinehead]

So he sticks to the plan of not trading youth for vets and now he's the problem? hilarious.

Well no he traded youth for vets when we sucked and held onto prospects when we had a contender. It's supposed to be the other way around.

 

[Callagraves]

It's not about the record. This team is just doing things contenders don't do.

It's not all about talent and points. They have talent, and as such they will get their share of points. But championship teams play clean. That's the important thing. The Rangers, I would argue, are the sloppiest team in the league.

Turn on the NJ-Phi game right now.

The team isn't clicking as well as it can right now. It's doing well regardless. They've all said it, they're focusing on getting better. The roster has seen tremendous turnover, and continues to. They're among the most dangerous teams in the league when they're going.

And I don't believe in "Contenders". Those are just favorites. Once you're in the playoffs, anything can happen.

 

[Drewbackatu*]

Let's talk some reality here. It's always the coach's fault for Kreider's lack of production. Jerry York was underutilizing in a defensive/sheltered role his first two seasons in college apparently. Torts has a tight leash around his neck and isn't letting him 'roam around'. The AHL was considered a time where Kreider intentionally took games off to conserve energy for the upcoming shortened season and Gernander is a terrible coach to blame for his lack of production. Now we're back with Torts converting him into a grinder? His stats and style of play shows that he'll possibly play a grinder type role in his career. Is it time we look at the player to evaluate what he really is, as opposed to blaming others around him? I say so.

You make a very good point here about Kreider. I am friends with the athletic director of a private school in brooklyn who coached hockey for years in vermont and he stated 3 years ago that kreider will never max out his potential because he doesn't work hard enough all the time and his hockey IQ is only so so.

 

[Callagraves]

You make a very good point here about Kreider. I am friends with the athletic director of a private school in brooklyn who coached hockey for years in vermont and he stated 3 years ago that kreider will never max out his potential because he doesn't work hard enough all the time and his hockey IQ is only so so.

I don't know much about Hockey IQ, but there's anyone who can get kids (and vets) to work harder than they ever thought they could, it's Torts.

 

[broadwayblue]

Well no he traded youth for vets when we sucked and held onto prospects when we had a contender. It's supposed to be the other way around.

Last year wasn't even our year...it only turned out to be a great season by a team that overachieved. Now the guys got a taste of a good playoff run, and they are a year older and wiser. This is the beginning of our window. The team isn't at 100% yet, but they will get there. People just need to not flip out over every miscue. Yes, it's a shortened season, but we've still got nearly 3/4 of it to go. And, as we all know, you want to be playing your best hockey in May, not October. There's plenty of time and we're doing it the right way.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

A guarantee you want? Lol!
The point is the window of opportunity was wide open last year with teams we had no prayer of beating in a playoff series(Bruins, Pens) knocked out in the 1st round.

If for arguments sake we had Nash last year, don't you think our chances would have been a lot better against the Devils??

When you're trading for an elite talent like a Nash, etc, you can't label players like Stepan(1 goal in 25 games in the playoffs), Del Zotto(who looks at times like he was just introduced to the position of defense) or even Kreider(who may have a special skillset but who has proven absolutely nothing so far!) as
"untouchables!!". Ridiculous!

Kreider had 5 goals in the playoffs. He played really well. Would Nash be enough of an upgrade over that that we'd be able to beat the Devils who dominated us? Kreider was also a shot in the arm to the team emotionally. The team looked spent in the Ottawa series until he showed up. We may not get out of the first round without him! Ok, and maybe we beat the Devils, we're not beating the Kings. Nash alone would not have made the difference. The Kings were just playing on another level. Stepan was our #2 center. Would you want Boyle to be our #2 center? We'd give up possibly Dubi and Artie in the deal. We'd have Brian ****ing Boyle as our #2 center in the playoffs. Yeah we're beating the Devils and Kings with that. Also you irrational HATE for DZ makes you lose all ****ing common sense man. Do you want Stu ****ing Bickel as our #5 D-man? Un-****ing-real. Maybe we should also have shipped your other favorite defenseman Staal and had Bickel in our #2 pairing.

 

[broadwayblue]

Kreider had 5 goals in the playoffs. He played really well. Would Nash be enough of an upgrade over that that we'd be able to beat the Devils who dominated us? Kreider was also a shot in the arm to the team emotionally. The team looked spent in the Ottawa series until he showed up. We may not get out of the first round without him! Ok, and maybe we beat the Devils, we're not beating the Kings. Nash alone would not have made the difference. The Kings were just playing on another level. Stepan was our #2 center. Would you want Boyle to be our #2 center? We'd give up possibly Dubi and Artie in the deal. We'd have Brian ****ing Boyle as our #2 center in the playoffs. Yeah we're beating the Devils and Kings with that. Also you irrational HATE for DZ makes you lose all ****ing common sense man. Do you want Stu ****ing Bickel as our #5 D-man? Un-****ing-real. Maybe we should also have shipped your other favorite defenseman Staal and had Bickel in our #2 pairing.

Indeed. lol

 

[Drewbackatu*]

So he sticks to the plan of not trading youth for vets and now he's the problem? hilarious.

If you're inferring that Sather is a wonderful GM, I think it's time for you to take up another sport to be a fan of. The guy hasn't done squat in over 20 years as a GM. The only thing I'll give him credit for is unloading via trade the ridiculous signings he has made over the years!

 

[Drewbackatu*]

I don't know much about Hockey IQ, but there's anyone who can get kids (and vets) to work harder than they ever thought they could, it's Torts.

Time will tell as it relates to Kreider. Personally, I'm not overly optimistic that he'll become a big goal scorer!

 

[SnowblindNYR]

There's no guarantee but we still should have gone for it, especially because, considering how alarmingly bad Kreider has been, it probably wouldn't have made a difference.

Now we have Nash and what's he playing with? A Brad Richards that has aged 15 years in 6 months, the return of 2011 Gaborik, a very meh Lundqvist and a team that is showing no heart, no gumption, and no intelligence.

Compare that to last year, where Richards was a beast in the playoffs, Gaborik was our best forward, Lundqvist won the Vezina, and the team was playing almost perfect in terms of not blowing leads and taking dumb penalties.

You gotta pick the fruit when it's ripe.

He would have been playing with a Richards that showed up for 1 series and a Gaborik with one arm. Oh and a team that was GASED after the first two rounds partially because he'd be playing Stu ****ing Bickel who played 0 minutes and forced Torts to exclusively play 5 D-men. That team was not good enough to win it all with Nash. The playoff Rangers were not the Rangers of the regular season. They were a .500 team playing against the 6th, 7th, and 8th seed.