Chris Kreider/JT Miller Discussion Thread (2/16: Kreider recalled to NHL)

[usernamesteph]

Garbage. People love to blame Torts when the players that they like struggle. Boyle's his favorite, right? He'd never healthy scratch him three games in a row and let a rookie take his spot. Richards is his favorite right? He'd never bench him in the third period of a tie game. Now Hagelin is his favorite? The same guy he shat all over in the post-game at the beginning of the season?

Hagelin is held in high regard right now because he's been playing like an animal. He's telling other players to play like him because his motor is on at 100% all the time - he's the first in on the forecheck, he gets the puck to the net and he never, ever stops moving. Torts is telling the other players that they need to be hustling and moving all the time. Gaborik's lack of hustle I understand, that's been his game for a long time and he's put up more than enough numbers to prove that it works. Kreider, on the other hand, should be taking notes from Hags. He's got the footspeed but he hasn't been using it to his advantage like Hagelin has.

I don't think Torts would argue with you about Kreider having solid upside - that's why he's getting sent down to a league that he should be able to build confidence in instead of sitting up in the NHL and struggling to establish himself as a regular. Miller's has made mistakes, yes, but not showing the proper effort hasn't been one of them with much regularity IMO.

My complaint with torts is that there is no consistentcy, you don't know what he's thinking and he seems to contradict himself at every turn.

He also seems to not want playmakers on his team...parenteau, zuccarello...

Refusues to relent in his ideas even when it's obvious they don't work..(Richards on the point)

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

He isn't a power forward, he doesn't play like a power forward, and never has. He doesn't bull his way to the net with the puck. He's a quick strike kind of player. He excels on the rush, he excels going to the net and finding pucks. He doesn't control the puck like that. It's not his game.

So no, the "bigger and stronger" theory doesn't fit.

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

Ducks fans all over Kreider being sent to the AHL. I'm shocked.

They're never going to let go of the comments about Palmieri dragging his line down in the WJC.

Kyle Palmieri is a fine player. The comments weren't about him dragging any line down. It was his unwillingness to use his teammates more. That's not uncommon from young players wanting to prove a lot on a big stage.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

He isn't a power forward, he doesn't play like a power forward, and never has. He doesn't bull his way to the net with the puck. He's a quick strike kind of player. He excels on the rush, he excels going to the net and finding pucks. He doesn't control the puck like that. It's not his game.

So no, the "bigger and stronger" theory doesn't fit.

Can he play a Gaborik game, do you think? I mean not to the tune of 40 goals, but like 25-30?

 

[haveandare]

My complaint with torts is that there is no consistentcy, you don't know what he's thinking and he seems to contradict himself at every turn.

He also seems to not want playmakers on his team...parenteau, zuccarello...

Refusues to relent in his ideas even when it's obvious they don't work..(Richards on the point)

I disagree. Players are inconsistent by their nature and he adapts his feelings on them to their current play. I think he's pretty clear with what he's thinking all the time. If a player is playing like crap, he'll say it. If that same player is later playing very well, he'll say it. Look at Hagelin - he was outright blamed for almost losing them a game earlier, called stupid more or less, and now he's the poster-boy for how to play NYR hockey. Look at Boyle, last year he was a hero at some points and he was commended, this year he's been lazy and he's been called out and punished for it.

I don't think he's against playmakers, as much as he wants everyone on the roster to play a specific style - hard on the forecheck, hard hitting, always on the move, and guys like PA and Zucc didn't/don't play that style and also didn't put up enough points to justify their inclusion on the roster like a guy like Gabby does. Richards is a playmaker, Hagelin is a playmaker, Stepan is a playmker, Callahan is a little of everything and he can make a play when the time is right.

I agree that Richards on the point needs to stop given Richards' play currently. However, he's been a solid pointman on the PP far longer than he's been a crappy one in his career, and I'd imagine the hope is that he's going to play his way through his struggle right now. He's obviously better than his play lately. I think Torts relents just fine overall aside for a few examples to the contrary. Safe is death didn't work with the roster he inherited here at first so he changed his gameplan. Block all the shots strategy didn't work to start this season and now they're playing a bit different, D men are aggressive in the offensive zone at the expense of not being able to get back and block, leaving Hank to get more clean shots on him.

I don't think he's perfect, but no coach is. I certainly don't think he's to blame for every problem that the team has and I think he was smart to send Kredier down and keep Miller up.

 

[keslerburrows]

What will the Rangers lines look like now? Will Callahan still be on the 3rd line?

 

[Thirty One]

Lines last night started:

Hagelin - Stepan - Nash
Gaborik - Richards - Callahan
Pyatt -Boyle - Miller
Powe - Halpern - Asham

All those players are still up. Best guess is they'll start Sunday too.

 

[keslerburrows]

Lines last night started:

Hagelin - Stepan - Nash
Gaborik - Richards - Callahan
Pyatt -Boyle - Miller
Powe - Halpern - Asham

All those players are still up. Best guess is they'll start Sunday too.

Thanks! Strong lineup you guys have. Being a die hard Canucks fan, it's nice to see that Pyatt is finding some success and hopefully a stable home in NY.

 

[Doctor King Schultz]

hindsight is 50/50 but I wish they would have given the Kreider - Miller - Callahan line one more night to see what they can do, especially since it puts Gaborik back on RW on his respective line.

 

[Doctyl]

Lines last night started:

Hagelin - Stepan - Nash
Gaborik - Richards - Callahan
Pyatt -Boyle - Miller
Powe - Halpern - Asham

All those players are still up. Best guess is they'll start Sunday too.

didnt torts swap boyle and richards?

 

[Thirty One]

didnt torts swap boyle and richards?

Ended up:

Hagelin - Stepan - Nash
Gaborik - Boyle - Callahan
Pyatt - Halpern - Powe

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Thanks! Strong lineup you guys have. Being a die hard Canucks fan, it's nice to see that Pyatt is finding some success and hopefully a stable home in NY.

As great of a game as he have issues at 3rd line center. Also that strong lineup didn't prevent us from having a monumental collapse 2 games in a row.

 

[Machinehead]

We should've gotten Nash and last year when the team was actually playing hockey. But we didn't because we wouldn't deal Kreider. What a difference maker he's turned out to be.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

We should've gotten Nash and last year when the team was actually playing hockey. But we didn't because we wouldn't deal Kreider. What a difference maker he's turned out to be.

Yep, let's give up on him a hair over 20 games into his career.

 

[broadwayblue]

We should've gotten Nash and last year when the team was actually playing hockey. But we didn't because we wouldn't deal Kreider. What a difference maker he's turned out to be.

Right, he can't be a difference maker. That ship has clearly sailed.

What's with the posts in this thread? Really a lot of nonsense bandied about.

 

[Drewbackatu*]

I disagree. Players are inconsistent by their nature and he adapts his feelings on them to their current play. I think he's pretty clear with what he's thinking all the time. If a player is playing like crap, he'll say it. If that same player is later playing very well, he'll say it. Look at Hagelin - he was outright blamed for almost losing them a game earlier, called stupid more or less, and now he's the poster-boy for how to play NYR hockey. Look at Boyle, last year he was a hero at some points and he was commended, this year he's been lazy and he's been called out and punished for it.

I don't think he's against playmakers, as much as he wants everyone on the roster to play a specific style - hard on the forecheck, hard hitting, always on the move, and guys like PA and Zucc didn't/don't play that style and also didn't put up enough points to justify their inclusion on the roster like a guy like Gabby does. Richards is a playmaker, Hagelin is a playmaker, Stepan is a playmker, Callahan is a little of everything and he can make a play when the time is right.

I agree that Richards on the point needs to stop given Richards' play currently. However, he's been a solid pointman on the PP far longer than he's been a crappy one in his career, and I'd imagine the hope is that he's going to play his way through his struggle right now. He's obviously better than his play lately. I think Torts relents just fine overall aside for a few examples to the contrary. Safe is death didn't work with the roster he inherited here at first so he changed his gameplan. Block all the shots strategy didn't work to start this season and now they're playing a bit different, D men are aggressive in the offensive zone at the expense of not being able to get back and block, leaving Hank to get more clean shots on him.

I don't think he's perfect, but no coach is. I certainly don't think he's to blame for every problem that the team has and I think he was smart to send Kredier down and keep Miller up.

First of all, he still may send Miller down before sunday.
Secondly, how the hell was Parenteau supposed to produce here when he was playing with a bunch of no talent scrubs on the 4th line??

 

[Machinehead]

Yep, let's give up on him a hair over 20 games into his career.

I'm not giving up on him as an NHLer but if this is a guy we wouldn't make a Cup push to keep, I'm disappointed.

 

[Dorado*]

It's kinda disheartening to see a supposed goal scorer only register 4 shots on goal in 7 games . Granted he had limited ice time . Torts is not the coach for this kid or any. CK probably will end up plying a Gaborik or maybe Jeff Carter type game taking advantage of shooting ability : Torts will turn him into a plumber / plug . If right deal came along for a young D man who can shoot or a wing or center with an established two way game so be it . As long as this be Bench shortening buffoon is NYR coach CK will be a basket case .

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I'm not giving up on him as an NHLer but if this is a guy we wouldn't make a Cup push to keep, I'm disappointed.

I'm not saying you're giving up on him as an NHLer but you're giving up on him being a difference maker. About 20 games into his career that's ridiculous. Especially since he was relatively to his experience a difference maker in the playoffs.

 

[Drewbackatu*]

We should've gotten Nash and last year when the team was actually playing hockey. But we didn't because we wouldn't deal Kreider. What a difference maker he's turned out to be.

Exactly right! Sather missed the boat completely(what else is new?)
by refusing to deal for Nash at the deadline last year because he decided that guys like Kreider, Stepan and/or Del Zotto were "untouchables??"
How dumb can you be?

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

He isn't a power forward, he doesn't play like a power forward, and never has. He doesn't bull his way to the net with the puck. He's a quick strike kind of player. He excels on the rush, he excels going to the net and finding pucks. He doesn't control the puck like that. It's not his game.

So no, the "bigger and stronger" theory doesn't fit.

He also does not have the motor of a Hagelin/Callahan player. Never has, even in HS when he had free roam over the entire rink.

Speed and motor are two 100% different things. Asking Kreider to be like Hagelin is like asking Gaborik to be like Callahan or vice-versa.

 

[broadwayblue]

Exactly right! Sather missed the boat completely(what else is new?)
by refusing to deal for Nash at the deadline last year because he decided that guys like Kreider, Stepan and/or Del Zotto were "untouchables??"
How dumb can you be?

This whole we didn't trade for Nash at the deal business is nonsense. We would have been a worse team if we pulled the trigger. We'd have gotten Nash at the expense of Kreider and Artie and or Dubi plus who knows what else. Was Nash going to score more than the 5 goals Kreider netted? Who was going to take Artie or Dubi's spot? This argument just doesn't hold up.

 

[Machinehead]

I'm not saying you're giving up on him as an NHLer but you're giving up on him being a difference maker. About 20 games into his career that's ridiculous. Especially since he was relatively to his experience a difference maker in the playoffs.

For what his value was last year, and what we could have gotten for him when we were playing our best hockey in 18 years, he needed to be a difference maker now. We missed the boat.

The chance to win has come, and it might already be gone. Kreider could be a good player in a couple of years but nobody knows what that's gonna mean, probably nothing because the cap situation just about guarantees a downgrade form the current squad.

But Nash on the 2011-12 Rangers could have meant a Stanley Cup.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Exactly right! Sather missed the boat completely(what else is new?)
by refusing to deal for Nash at the deadline last year because he decided that guys like Kreider, Stepan and/or Del Zotto were "untouchables??"
How dumb can you be?

Kreider was pretty productive in the playoffs. Stepan is our #2 center. We were playing Stu ****ing Bickel as a 6th defenseman. Where's the guarantee that if we dealt either of these guys we'd have a cup?

 

[Kershaw]

It's kinda disheartening to see a supposed goal scorer only register 4 shots on goal in 7 games . Granted he had limited ice time . Torts is not the coach for this kid or any. CK probably will end up plying a Gaborik or maybe Jeff Carter type game taking advantage of shooting ability : Torts will turn him into a plumber / plug . If right deal came along for a young D man who can shoot or a wing or center with an established two way game so be it . As long as this be Bench shortening buffoon is NYR coach CK will be a basket case .

Let's talk some reality here. It's always the coach's fault for Kreider's lack of production. Jerry York was underutilizing in a defensive/sheltered role his first two seasons in college apparently. Torts has a tight leash around his neck and isn't letting him 'roam around'. The AHL was considered a time where Kreider intentionally took games off to conserve energy for the upcoming shortened season and Gernander is a terrible coach to blame for his lack of production. Now we're back with Torts converting him into a grinder? His stats and style of play shows that he'll possibly play a grinder type role in his career. Is it time we look at the player to evaluate what he really is, as opposed to blaming others around him? I say so.