CHL Can Now Play NCAA - Changes Everything

[Bubbles]

Exactly- It can't be pointed out enough to some people on this forum that it's illegal for athletes on foreign student visa to work. Collecting nil money is 'work'. They'd be breaking the law to accept the money, those offering the money would be breaking the law to do so.

If the 2 time National NCAA basketball player of the year couldn't get paid because he was Canadian, why would a hockey player?

I've said it a few times and the naysayers say "oh, they'll just get around it, bag of cash". While I don't doubt that's happened before, it's a giant leap of logic to say it will happen in the future. Also, someone suggested applying for a different visa, called O-1, which according to research, has around 19000 holders in the US, the vast majority being PROFESSIONALS (not amateur athletes) in the science, music, entertainment and arts.

No, it's not, it's just more complicated. I know this for a fact because I know Kasparas Jakucionnis secured a lucrative NIL deal to play college basketball for Illinois this year, a program I follow closely and has tons of insiders. I know that he would not have played college basketball if it were not for NIL because it was not in his plans previously. Another player that was on this year's team is a Canadian named Will Reilly, who is likely also going to the NBA and insiders have said it would take around a $2 million NIL deal to keep him, nothing about "he didn't get any NIL and can't get any NIL". People need to stop repeating this because it's not accurate. This is a situation that evolves in real time. Edey didn't pursue NIL aggressively as a loyal guy who wanted to finish it out with Purdue and he was a guy that started college before the NIL stuff took off, and even that is probably already "outdated" info now.

Literally right here

Source: Illini land Lithuanian prospect Jakucionis

Kasparas Jakucionis, a 6-foot-6 guard from Lithuania who is a potential first-round pick in the 2025 NBA draft, has committed to Illinois, a source told ESPN.

www.espn.com

I don't want to get into semantics, but you're talking about "pay to play" using NIL money. Whatever deal struck before acquiring a student visa, in theory, could be anything as it exists outside the NIL world. So in your example, that basketball guy is getting paid for sure, but once he gets to America he cannot earn any money on NIL deals because of the existing student visa. I do agree it's definitely the Wild West in terms of NIL money and how exactly how it's used.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I don't want to get into semantics, but you're talking about "pay to play" using NIL money. Whatever deal struck before acquiring a student visa, in theory, could be anything as it exists outside the NIL world. So in your example, that basketball guy is getting paid for sure, but once he gets to America he cannot earn any money on NIL deals because of the existing student visa. I do agree it's definitely the Wild West in terms of NIL money and how exactly how it's used.

They just "earn" the money in their home country.

All NIL is de facto pay to play. The Heisman winner may do a Dr. Pepper ad or whatever but functionally, NIL is used as a pay to play tool.

 

[Bubbles]

They just "earn" the money in their home country.

All NIL is de facto pay to play. The Heisman winner may do a Dr. Pepper ad or whatever but functionally, NIL is used as a pay to play tool.

Do you still not acknowledge that an international student can only earn a restricted amount money in America under a student visa?

The NIL rules allow him to earn NIL money ONLY when he is in his home country. So If that Lithuanian player wants to make a car commercial in Lithuania, it's perfectly fine. If he wants to make one in America, he cannot, under the rules in his student visa.

This is why guys like Edey, who was mostly ineligible to make NIL money in America, was able to sign a deal while he was in Toronto for a few exhibition games.

Why Canadians can’t make as much money as Americans in NCAA

 

[Andy Dufresne]

No, it's not, it's just more complicated. I know this for a fact because I know Kasparas Jakucionnis secured a lucrative NIL deal to play college basketball for Illinois this year, a program I follow closely and has tons of insiders. I know that he would not have played college basketball if it were not for NIL because it was not in his plans previously. Another player that was on this year's team is a Canadian named Will Reilly, who is likely also going to the NBA and insiders have said it would take around a $2 million NIL deal to keep him, nothing about "he didn't get any NIL and can't get any NIL". People need to stop repeating this because it's not accurate. This is a situation that evolves in real time. Edey didn't pursue NIL aggressively as a loyal guy who wanted to finish it out with Purdue and he was a guy that started college before the NIL stuff took off, and even that is probably already "outdated" info now.

Literally right here

Source: Illini land Lithuanian prospect Jakucionis

Kasparas Jakucionis, a 6-foot-6 guard from Lithuania who is a potential first-round pick in the 2025 NBA draft, has committed to Illinois, a source told ESPN.

www.espn.com

That's it? Givony's opinion is that more international ball players are coming to play college ball because of NIL. They could just be coming because looking good against other kids and then getting drafted high (guaranteed multi millions) is easier than doing so playing foreign pro ball.

You're right, i'm not 100% none of these guys are getting paid. Yet, there's never any concrete evidence they are. Like, what EXACTLY is the work around legally? Because they're still not supposed to be getting paid as foreign students.
I want to see concrete evidence not whispered rumours. You're link is the latter, not the former.

 

[Wieters]

It's certainly not impossible, but requiring a donor putting up significant amounts of money in perpetuity is not "easy". There are not a lot of people in the world who can just drop $1.5M every year on what is essentially a passion project, there are even fewer who want that project to be college sports, and even fewer than that who love college hockey and not football or basketball.

Even with this gift, the amount of money they have to play with is not actually that much. Probably half of it at most will be given directly to players. You have at least 20 guys that you probably want to spread that money around to. Not that ~$30k isn't real money, but it's probably not enough to convince top end, NHL prospects to come to your school especially when your school is not very prestigious hockey-wise or academically.

It's not that NIL doesn't exist for hockey it's that
1) the sums of money being talked about are much lower than you'd think
2) at the flagship programs, football is the all-consuming black hole that is every booster/collective/AD's first and last priority
3) foreign players for the most part cannot make any NIL money while on a student visa

All of this is fine and well except for the idea that it's not easy. It's very easy. You don't need an elaborate funding/finance system, the university doesn't have to consciously decide to shift its focus to hockey, and there isn't burdensome red tape to cut through. All you need is a donor and that's the only point I'm making. Whether those donors start showing up in droves to college hockey the way they have in football and basketball is yet to be determined, but quite literally all it takes is individuals making donations.

 

[wetcoast]

Guess Battaglia isn't going NCAA lol

That's good news for Kingston right?

 

[Hockeyville USA]

All of this is fine and well except for the idea that it's not easy. It's very easy. You don't need an elaborate funding/finance system, the university doesn't have to consciously decide to shift its focus to hockey, and there isn't burdensome red tape to cut through. All you need is a donor and that's the only point I'm making. Whether those donors start showing up in droves to college hockey the way they have in football and basketball is yet to be determined, but quite literally all it takes is individuals making donations.

Exactly. Commie could decide it's time to make sure North Dakota gets the next big time guy and donate. Same with Whitney for Boston University.

 

[qcal1427]

All of this is fine and well except for the idea that it's not easy. It's very easy. You don't need an elaborate funding/finance system, the university doesn't have to consciously decide to shift its focus to hockey, and there isn't burdensome red tape to cut through. All you need is a donor and that's the only point I'm making. Whether those donors start showing up in droves to college hockey the way they have in football and basketball is yet to be determined, but quite literally all it takes is individuals making donations.

I know this is mostly semantics but "straightforward" sure but it is not at all "easy" for teams to find people willing to just write them $1M+ checks every year in perpetuity as evidenced by the fact that so far exactly one program has been able to find someone to do so.

 

[Hazy Little Thing]

The NIL rules allow him to earn NIL money ONLY when he is in his home country. So If that Lithuanian player wants to make a car commercial in Lithuania, it's perfectly fine. If he wants to make one in America, he cannot, under the rules in his student visa.

This is why guys like Edey, who was mostly ineligible to make NIL money in America, was able to sign a deal while he was in Toronto for a few exhibition games.

Why Canadians can’t make as much money as Americans in NCAA

I don’t think you understand how this works. He can earn money from a Lithuanian company while in America. Does a commercial while back home, gets paid monthly for the next year.

Edey was just a fool who didn’t know how to monetize himself. That’s on him. He’s a bad example and that article has been torn apart.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I know this is mostly semantics but "straightforward" sure but it is not at all "easy" for teams to find people willing to just write them $1M+ checks every year in perpetuity as evidenced by the fact that so far exactly one program has been able to find someone to do so.

It’s fine to say there isn’t that much money in college hockey but the straightforward aspect is that it’s not logistically complicated. Musk, Bezos, Zuckerberg, Gates, Buffet could all decide college hockey is their passion and players would be raking it in at wherever they write their checks. That doesn’t mean that would ever happen just that there’s no theoretical barriers if the interest were there amongst the moneyed class.

 

[Bubbles]

I don’t think you understand how this works. He can earn money from a Lithuanian company while in America. Does a commercial while back home, gets paid monthly for the next year.

Edey was just a fool who didn’t know how to monetize himself. That’s on him. He’s a bad example and that article has been torn apart.

If you're one of those people that just won't accept the laws of the student visa (sounds like it, like the other guy who doesn't want to acknowledge the fact that students are restricted on what they earn on international student visas), there's no point in debating it.

Saying Edey is a fool when he was just following the law makes you sound you're grasping on straws. And you're just making up stuff about the article getting "torn apart", where's your evidence?

 

[Corso]

If you're one of those people that just won't accept the laws of the student visa (sounds like it, like the other guy who doesn't want to acknowledge the fact that students are restricted on what they earn on international student visas), there's no point in debating it.

Saying Edey is a fool when he was just following the law makes you sound you're grasping on straws. And you're just making up stuff about the article getting "torn apart", where's your evidence?

There's more storms on the horizon for international students concerning the House Settlement. I'm sure most have been following the news about tightening immigration polices and I can tell you that agents are loudly telling their clients who are not Americans TO NOT ACCEPT ANY PAYMENTS WHATSOEVER for fear of deportation (yes things are getting that bad here in the U.S.).....but what happens when the schools are mandated to share revenue with athletes???? https://frontofficesports.com/newsletter/an-international-athlete-crisis/

Here's a post about potential solutions but everyone knows the running joke about waiting for legislation from Congress.....https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/challenges-facing-international-student-athletes-nil-era-philabaum-rfaoc

 

[WarriorofTime]

International basketball players are absolutely getting paid on NIL... Absolutely nobody is talking about how international guys can't secure a bag this cycle, lol. Hockey players will not be restricted i if the money is there just because they are Canadian.

 

[Hazy Little Thing]

If you're one of those people that just won't accept the laws of the student visa (sounds like it, like the other guy who doesn't want to acknowledge the fact that students are restricted on what they earn on international student visas), there's no point in debating it.

Saying Edey is a fool when he was just following the law makes you sound you're grasping on straws. And you're just making up stuff about the article getting "torn apart", where's your evidence?

It just seems like you don’t know what the student visa restrictions actually are.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

IIRC, I saw some tweets talking about how Minnesota kids are now open to going to the WHL after HS to develop before the NCAA instead of going to the USHL. That would certainly shake things up and be a talent infusion for the Dub.

 

[frontsfan67]

IIRC, I saw some tweets talking about how Minnesota kids are now open to going to the WHL after HS to develop before the NCAA instead of going to the USHL. That would certainly shake things up and be a talent infusion for the Dub.

It’s gonna be that way all around

Everyone knows chl better than USHL. Will still get some going there but not big name Canadians probably like Celebrini and fantilli

 

[bigdog16]

It’s gonna be that way all around

Everyone knows chl better than USHL. Will still get some going there but not big name Canadians probably like Celebrini and fantilli

I still don't think we see a huge influx of 16 year old Americans make the jump. Playing in the USHL for a year before going to the CHL makes a lot of sense from a progression standpoint. 16 year olds who aren't good enough for NTDP realistically wouldn't get that much ice time in the CHL.

 

[Kingpin794]

I still don't think we see a huge influx of 16 year old Americans make the jump. Playing in the USHL for a year before going to the CHL makes a lot of sense from a progression standpoint. 16 year olds who aren't good enough for NTDP realistically wouldn't get that much ice time in the CHL.

That's not true. There's only 20 some spots on the NTDP. There are surely plenty others that could handle themselves in the CHL at 16.

 

[bigdog16]

That's not true. There's only 20 some spots on the NTDP. There are surely plenty others that could handle themselves in the CHL at 16.

I am sure they could handle it, but how good are 3rd/4th line minutes for your development at 16? There are 121 2008s with greater than 30 games played in the CHL this year. You are taking the players who, in a majority of cases, weren't good enough for the NTDP and stacking them up the cream of the crop 16 year old Canadians. You could probably count on one hand who could excel and contribute as a 16 year old. From a development standpoint it simply makes more sense to see more ice time in a more prominent role in the USHL. Then jump to the CHL as a 17 year old.

 

[Kingpin794]

I am sure they could handle it, but how good are 3rd/4th line minutes for your development at 16? There are 121 2008s with greater than 30 games played in the CHL this year. You are taking the players who, in a majority of cases, weren't good enough for the NTDP and stacking them up the cream of the crop 16 year old Canadians. You could probably count on one hand who could excel and contribute as a 16 year old. From a development standpoint it simply makes more sense to see more ice time in a more prominent role in the USHL. Then jump to the CHL as a 17 year old.

It really depends on the team that picks you. London notoriously doesn't really play any 16 year olds typically. Like Hawery and Caleb Mithcell could play meaningful minutes for almost any other team but they don't see a lot of time with the Knights. Other teams will slot you up the line up no matter what your age is as long as you can play. 3rd line minutes with PP time and moving up when injuries/suspensions occur can be super valuable. I agree if you are stuck on 4th line duty though that getting top minutes somewhere else at 16 would be a good idea. Lot of teams do that now and have affinations with GOJHL clubs. Although USHL would be fine for US kids. Just don't think USHL is anymore forgiving for 16 uear olds that can't crack top 9 in the CHL.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

It’s gonna be that way all around

Everyone knows chl better than USHL. Will still get some going there but not big name Canadians probably like Celebrini and fantilli

The CHL is not a monolith.

The Q most certainly is not better than the USHL.

The W and O probably are, but so far the predictions of some about the impending imperialism of these leagues over the USHL and American players hasn’t proven true.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

That's not true. There's only 20 some spots on the NTDP. There are surely plenty others that could handle themselves in the CHL at 16.

Yeah, I actually agree with this.

The CHL is way more friendly at giving younger players playing time.

There are absolute nobodies from an American standpoint (for the draft, international rosters) that are getting regular shifts in the CHL in their U17 year and some of the American players that are struggling to break into USHL teams is crazy when you think about it. There is exactly one American U17 defenseman that has played a regular shift in the USHL this year.

The CHL has a great pitch to those that don’t make the NTDP that they’ll play more than they would in the USHL, and it’s probably true.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Hunter Mayo (2004, WHL, Swift Current Broncos) commits to Merrimack

 

[Corso]

Hunter Mayo (2004, WHL, Swift Current Broncos) commits to Merrimack

Haven't done a running tally but I believe we are getting close to 90 O/A commitments. I'm pretty confident we will have close to 100 by June/July.

Also, there's this other angle..



I've been hearing that there may be around 30 former CHL players currently playing U-Sports that have already committed but have not announced yet.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Haven't done a running tally but I believe we are getting close to 90 O/A commitments. I'm pretty confident we will have close to 100 by June/July.

Also, there's this other angle..



I've been hearing that there may be around 30 former CHL players currently playing U-Sports that have already committed but have not announced yet.

Sean McGurn (2002, USports, University of New Brunswick, former London Knights forward) commits to Arizona State.