CHL can now play NCAA - change everything !

[Blue and Green]

Would more 20YO really help with the talent level though? We can assume that most decent 20YO will be either in college already or about to enter college, so what will you really be left with?

The CHL is about to gain a large influx of talent, especially from the U.S, within the next couple of seasons. That influx will help mitigate the loss of some 18 and 19 YO players that will jump to the NCAA.

I guess if the CHL says, forget it, D1 is going to 26 scholarships from 18, nobody age 20 that they don't take will be worth keeping, that would negate the idea. But it must surely be worth studying.
Between allowing CHLers and the additional scholarships, D1 will be getting strong enough that it might be able to afford to let a lot of decent 20YO's get another year of maturation before taking them. Might as well be CHL where they play instead of CIS or D3. Better for CHL to have solid 20YO's who can outplay some of the less talented younger options, and better for those guys and for D1 programs if they can play junior instead of CIS or D3 to save a year of D1 eligibility.

 

[SergeConstantin74]

Another one… Alexandre Taillefer is joining the Remparts.

Les Remparts ont convaincu Alexandre Taillefer

Le changement de règlementation du circuit universitaire de la NCAA a ouvert la porte aux Remparts dans le dossier Alexandre Taillefer. La venue de l’excellent défenseur à Québec devrait être confirmée dans les prochaines heures, a appris Le Soleil.

www.lesoleil.com

QMJHL seems to have some success so far to bring back its top talent with the rule change. Lottin, Taillefer and Benoit were 1st round talent at the last Q Draft. Tynan Lawrence and Cameron Chartrand are the other two heading to NCAA and not playing in the Q.

 

[Kingpin794]

Another one… Alexandre Taillefer is joining the Remparts.

Les Remparts ont convaincu Alexandre Taillefer

Le changement de règlementation du circuit universitaire de la NCAA a ouvert la porte aux Remparts dans le dossier Alexandre Taillefer. La venue de l’excellent défenseur à Québec devrait être confirmée dans les prochaines heures, a appris Le Soleil.

www.lesoleil.com

QMJHL seems to have some success so far to bring back its top talent with the rule change. Lottin, Taillefer and Benoit were 1st round talent at the last Q Draft. Tynan Lawrence and Cameron Chartrand are the other two heading to NCAA and not playing in the Q.

2 fold surprised that the Q is reaping the benefits of this new ruling so quickly and that there's been the least amount of movement in the WHL.

 

[Corso]

I guess if the CHL says, forget it, D1 is going to 26 scholarships from 18, nobody age 20 that they don't take will be worth keeping, that would negate the idea. But it must surely be worth studying.
Between allowing CHLers and the additional scholarships, D1 will be getting strong enough that it might be able to afford to let a lot of decent 20YO's get another year of maturation before taking them. Might as well be CHL where they play instead of CIS or D3. Better for CHL to have solid 20YO's who can outplay some of the less talented younger options, and better for those guys and for D1 programs if they can play junior instead of CIS or D3 to save a year of D1 eligibility.

Possibly but I am not sure that this will help with the overall skill level of the league. I can see if they keep the limit at 3, that an older deeper NCAA would afford the CHL decent over agers but expanding it to say 6 probably would not. A player that cannot enter the NCAA may very well give up that option, take his CHL scholarship package, play pro for a year and then go and play U-Sports, rather than wait and play for a mid tier or lower D-1 program.

The reality is that no one knows exactly how this will shake out as between the NCAA and CHL specifically. Making declarative statements about this league retaining/gaining certain players vis a vis the other league is just conjecture. This is a message board so speculation is par for the course, but any definitiveness should be treated skeptically.

No, no one does but we can make some very educated guesses as to the trajectory this rule change will take.

There are some here (and I think I discussed this previously on this thread) that believe that the CHL will become the new USHL and the NCAA will become the top of the pyramid in amateur development for the NHL.

There are others that feel that this will minimally impact the CHL or the USHL or the current structure of amateur hockey. They feel that most NCAA bound players, especially if they are American will continue to go and play in the USHL or the BCHL.

Some others believe that the CHL will keep all of its 18 and 19 year old players and only those that have filled their contractual obligations to the league will leave for the NCAA.

Having talked to enough people that are close to the situation and reading some excellent reporting, I'm pretty confident in stating that scenarios two and three are highly unlikely and the end result will be some type of synthesis of scenarios one and four.

The CHL does not want to be the new USHL, nor does it want to be seen as feeder to the NCAA first and foremost. The three commissioners of each league, and the ownership groups are aware, however, that a full scholarship offer from a "blue blood" institution is a very enticing proposition to a recently drafted 18 YO and even more so to a 19YO. The NCAA offers a very unique lifestyle, coupled with excellent personal and athletic development. There is simply no way that some of these players spurn offers from a Michigan or a B.U. The CHL will lose players to the NCAA before they age out and I would bet money on it!

The question is, what percentage of these player will they lose, and the answer will determine as to who will be seen as the proverbial top of the pyramid. What some here may not understand or be aware of is that the CHL and NHL are quite close (and I mean close) much more so than the NCAA or even the American coaches association. This allows the CHL to lobby for their interests directly to the NHL. The new three commissioners have also become acutely aware of the power of agents and agencies in helping players make decisions and are cozying up the more prominent ones. What the CHL will do is encourage players that are drafted to sign ELCs in order to negate NCAA eligibility (and I will bet money on this also!).

The job of the NCAA, through their own lobbying of agents and through college hockey inc will be to convince these players to delay signing their ELCs and play college hockey for at least a couple of seasons.

How the NHL and the PA come down on player retention rights, the CHL-NHL agreement and the path they want their prospects to take will be the ultimate decision maker on how this plays out. Know this though, the NHL (and particularly NHL GMs) like to have a direct hand with player development. They like to see their prospects at rookie orientation camps and then the main development camps. Agents, due to the nature of their business, want to see their clients sign NHL ELCs sooner rather than later.

My sense in all of this is that the NHL will really like the ability to give its later round picks or players not quite ready for the AHL/NHL the longer runway that the NCAA route offers but that the majority of the high-end talents will sign and forgo the NCAA route

 

[WarriorofTime]

2 fold surprised that the Q is reaping the benefits of this new ruling so quickly and that there's been the least amount of movement in the WHL.

Another one… Alexandre Taillefer is joining the Remparts.

Les Remparts ont convaincu Alexandre Taillefer

Le changement de règlementation du circuit universitaire de la NCAA a ouvert la porte aux Remparts dans le dossier Alexandre Taillefer. La venue de l’excellent défenseur à Québec devrait être confirmée dans les prochaines heures, a appris Le Soleil.

www.lesoleil.com

QMJHL seems to have some success so far to bring back its top talent with the rule change. Lottin, Taillefer and Benoit were 1st round talent at the last Q Draft. Tynan Lawrence and Cameron Chartrand are the other two heading to NCAA and not playing in the Q.

The Q teams are probably the most able to guarantee the Ringers a first line role considering how much of the Q goes undrafted compared to the others. I think players would be less likely to leave a 1st line BCHL/USHL Role (especially if they aren't drafted yet) in the middle of a season to maybe play 3rd line.

 

[WarriorofTime]

No, no one does but we can make some very educated guesses as to the trajectory this rule change will take.
....
My sense in all of this is that the NHL will really like the ability to give its later round picks or players not quite ready for the AHL/NHL the longer runway that the NCAA route offers but that the majority of the high-end talents will sign and forgo the NCAA route

I think the most obvious point is the CHL-NHL Transfer Agreement and NHL CBA as it pertains to the rights of drafted players and must sign dates is the most important domino in all of it.

I had suggested that perhaps the NHL could simplify and keep time on reserve list the same regardless of what league a North American player is originally drafted them. I think some here dismissed it out of hand, but I'm not sure the reasoning as to why.

I don't really see why NHL teams wouldn't want their prospects to go NCAA after being drafted so long as they are not running a risk of losing them to the free agent rule. From a competitive standpoint, even if for three straight years you see nothing but CHL Age-Outs that have minimal pro prospects go into the NCAA, along with whomever else would have been in NCAA prior, that still has an uptick on overall level of NCAA play.

Instead of being in CHL playing against all those 17-20 year olds that are good enough to play elite junior hockey but not good enough to play NHL/AHL, you're playing those same players when they are 20-23 as they continue getting older/stronger/better. Combine this with a mix of already existing NCAA players, including the NHL prospects who are generally concentrated in the same Conferences (hence why averaging analysis works less for NCAA, some teams have a lot of pro prospects, some teams have none and some conferences have a lot of those teams, some have none, and the meaty part of a college team's schedule is their conference games).

So you'd expect this to create a downward pressure from NHL teams and players alike to want to play in the NCAA once they've essentially conquered Junior Hockey. There is no need for a 3rd or 4th season there if they already have shown what they can do at that level if there is an opportunity right there to face an older, but similar makeup, player pool. A next stage in the development pipeline so to speak.

There's also an added benefit of not being on an artificial timeline of when they will matriculate to the AHL. They can sign whenever they're ready, a mutual give and take process between player and team. That's why so many good NCAA prospects skip or only spend minimal time in the AHL once they sign their ELC, if they know they aren't playing in the NHL, many would rather stick another year in college. Again, only real concern is if they wait around they can start leveraging the threat of not signing and becoming a Free Agent to force their way somewhere else. That feels like one of those "fixes" that can be had, but also being fair to players that teams don't have interest in signing to not be held hostage on a reserve list if a different team would have signed them [that's essentially the logic of Waivers].

That doesn't mean that's how it might work if people in NHL positions are all buddies with people in Junior Hockey positions and everyone is concerned with scratching each other's back and making sure pockets are filled.. but I think it's the system that would make the most sense from a logical ordering.

 

[SergeConstantin74]

The Q teams are probably the most able to guarantee the Ringers a first line role considering how much of the Q goes undrafted compared to the others. I think players would be less likely to leave a 1st line BCHL/USHL Role (especially if they aren't drafted yet) in the middle of a season to maybe play 3rd line.

Just a thought, for 2 of the kids I named (Lottin and Benoit), the BCHL is a long way from home. For kids from the WHL, it's different because it's already close to home.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Just a thought, for 2 of the kids I named (Lottin and Benoit), the BCHL is a long way from home. For kids from the WHL, it's different because it's already close to home.

Yes, a French-Canadian kid would probably rather play close to home all else being equal, but if they had been concerned that QMJHL -> Pro pipeline was drying up and so wanted to have NCAA in there, then QMJHL -> NCAA -> Pro is a more appealing personal option than BCHL -> NCAA -> Pro

 

[Blue and Green]

I think the most obvious point is the CHL-NHL Transfer Agreement and NHL CBA as it pertains to the rights of drafted players and must sign dates is the most important domino in all of it.

I had suggested that perhaps the NHL could simplify and keep time on reserve list the same regardless of what league a North American player is originally drafted them. I think some here dismissed it out of hand, but I'm not sure the reasoning as to why.

I don't really see why NHL teams wouldn't want their prospects to go NCAA after being drafted so long as they are not running a risk of losing them to the free agent rule. From a competitive standpoint, even if for three straight years you see nothing but CHL Age-Outs that have minimal pro prospects go into the NCAA, along with whomever else would have been in NCAA prior, that still has an uptick on overall level of NCAA play.

Instead of being in CHL playing against all those 17-20 year olds that are good enough to play elite junior hockey but not good enough to play NHL/AHL, you're playing those same players when they are 20-23 as they continue getting older/stronger/better. Combine this with a mix of already existing NCAA players, including the NHL prospects who are generally concentrated in the same Conferences (hence why averaging analysis works less for NCAA, some teams have a lot of pro prospects, some teams have none and some conferences have a lot of those teams, some have none, and the meaty part of a college team's schedule is their conference games).

So you'd expect this to create a downward pressure from NHL teams and players alike to want to play in the NCAA once they've essentially conquered Junior Hockey. There is no need for a 3rd or 4th season there if they already have shown what they can do at that level if there is an opportunity right there to face an older, but similar makeup, player pool. A next stage in the development pipeline so to speak.

There's also an added benefit of not being on an artificial timeline of when they will matriculate to the AHL. They can sign whenever they're ready, a mutual give and take process between player and team. That's why so many good NCAA prospects skip or only spend minimal time in the AHL once they sign their ELC, if they know they aren't playing in the NHL, many would rather stick another year in college. Again, only real concern is if they wait around they can start leveraging the threat of not signing and becoming a Free Agent to force their way somewhere else. That feels like one of those "fixes" that can be had, but also being fair to players that teams don't have interest in signing to not be held hostage on a reserve list if a different team would have signed them [that's essentially the logic of Waivers].

That doesn't mean that's how it might work if people in NHL positions are all buddies with people in Junior Hockey positions and everyone is concerned with scratching each other's back and making sure pockets are filled.. but I think it's the system that would make the most sense from a logical ordering.

If you're advocating for a blanket age or timeline on retention of rights, suggest one.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I'd advocate that drafted CHL'ers who go the NCAA route have rights transfer to whatever protection timeline current drafted NCAA players have. Seems pretty obvious right?
Isn't that what happens with players drafted out of the bchl or ushl currently?. Teams don't have to sign those guys or lose their rights within 3 years like CHLers now.

 

[BadgerBruce]

Several posters have asked why so many players are “defecting” to the CHL from other leagues (BCHL, USHL).

One of the reasons nobody has focused on is that these players are essentially being sold, often at a premium, since the standardized transfer fee schedule does not apply in-season.

Lose a player in 6 months for a nominal fee, or sell him today for five figures. Easy math.

 

[SergeConstantin74]

Several posters have asked why so many players are “defecting” to the CHL from other leagues (BCHL, USHL).

One of the reasons nobody has focused on is that these players are essentially being sold, often at a premium, since the standardized transfer fee schedule does not apply in-season.

Lose a player in 6 months for a nominal fee, or sell him today for five figures. Easy math.

There are no fees for players leaving the BCHL since the league isn’t under the wing of a hockey federation. The BCHL leaving Hockey Canada meant that they could recruit 16-17 yo (it was against HC’s regulations) from other provinces but they can’t get fees if players decide to leave the league.

 

[Trav]

Two more college committed signed with WHL teams today.

Savin Virk signed with Tri Cities - He's a BC kid and 07 born...he'll be joining Tri City Americans now.

Booker Toninato is from Texas and signed with Everett.. He's an 08 but it didn't say if he's joining Everett now but I'd assume so.

​

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Bowling Green head coach Dennis Williams was the Everett Silvertips head coach for 7 years (2017-2024). He's already received 3 Dub commits. Expect the Falcons to continue to get Dub players since their coach has the best knowledge of the Dub player pool

 

[Bubbles]

A couple of 20 yr olds from the Dub, Jake Sloan and Max Hildebrand, have committed to Bowling Green and Bemidji State respectively.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

A couple of 20 yr olds from the Dub, Jake Sloan and Max Hildebrand, have committed to Bowling Green and Bemidji State respectively.

Sloan is pretty good. Have liked his game in the past back when he was on the fringes of potentially being drafted.

 

[BadgerBruce]

There are no fees for players leaving the BCHL since the league isn’t under the wing of a hockey federation. The BCHL leaving Hockey Canada meant that they could recruit 16-17 yo (it was against HC’s regulations) from other provinces but they can’t get fees if players decide to leave the league.

If your league (BCHL) is not part of the transfer agreement regime established by the governing bodies, why would you assume teams in that league are not negotiating release fees independently? What is to stop them?

 

[Bjindaho]

If your league (BCHL) is not part of the transfer agreement regime established by the governing bodies, why would you assume teams in that league are not negotiating release fees independently? What is to stop them?

The BCHL cannot stop kids from signing anywhere else. Being a member of a HC or USA Hockey sanctioned league brings in a requirement that players be released from active contracts.

When the BCHL severed ties, they lost the protection of HC to stop teams in any other NA league from simply taking kids. They did this because they didn't want to have to honor the release process themselves.

If your league (BCHL) is not part of the transfer agreement regime established by the governing bodies, why would you assume teams in that league are not negotiating release fees independently? What is to stop them?

Put differently, every single BCHL player is considered not under contract by IIHF rules and therefore free to bail at any time.

 

[SergeConstantin74]

The BCHL cutting ties with HC was a bad timing with the NCAA decision a year later. They're losing players left and right because they are free to go when/where they want.

 

[WarriorofTime]

If your league (BCHL) is not part of the transfer agreement regime established by the governing bodies, why would you assume teams in that league are not negotiating release fees independently? What is to stop them?

At same time, what would stop the BCHL from seeing a kid walk out the door and sign anywhere he wants regardless of any permission? I’d think they’d need some kind of injunction to not let them play on their new team.

 

[jtechkid]

The BCHL cutting ties with HC was a bad timing with the NCAA decision a year later. They're losing players left and right because they are free to go when/where they want.

it was reported bchl has lost 29 so far .

 

[Blue and Green]

Possibly but I am not sure that this will help with the overall skill level of the league. I can see if they keep the limit at 3, that an older deeper NCAA would afford the CHL decent over agers but expanding it to say 6 probably would not. A player that cannot enter the NCAA may very well give up that option, take his CHL scholarship package, play pro for a year and then go and play U-Sports, rather than wait and play for a mid tier or lower D-1 program.

The CHL does not want to be the new USHL, nor does it want to be seen as feeder to the NCAA first and foremost. The three commissioners of each league, and the ownership groups are aware, however, that a full scholarship offer from a "blue blood" institution is a very enticing proposition to a recently drafted 18 YO and even more so to a 19YO. The NCAA offers a very unique lifestyle, coupled with excellent personal and athletic development. There is simply no way that some of these players spurn offers from a Michigan or a B.U. The CHL will lose players to the NCAA before they age out and I would bet money on it!

Here's how I see it, rightly or wrongly:

The barrier of entry is going to get higher for both CHL and NCAA D1. In CHL, age 16 for entry as a full-time player is now probably going to be limited mostly to guys with a solid shot at being drafted by the NHL. Then at age 17, it'll probably be mostly the guys who are likely good enough to become four-year NCAA players. If CHL removes the restriction on the number of 20YO players, it makes it easier for teams to keep their top guys for an extended period. The more players that they send directly to pro (especially ELC signees) and D1, the less money they'll have to shell out for scholarships in the long run. Having those older players will help the quality of the league. And, the CHL likes the continuity and the connection to the community that comes with established players.

They can use the USHL/BCHL/Junior A ranks to backfill their rosters as necessary when they lose players with remaining eligibility to pro or D1, and also as a development system for 15YO and 16YO players. If guys know that they can stay in CHL through their age 20 season, it probably improves CHL's chances of picking off some of the better older players from that secondary tier of junior.

Players will have to be better before they can break into NCAA D1 as well. I'm sure that NCAA would be happy to have some of their recruits continue their development in CHL at age 20.

CHL doesn't have to worry about becoming what USHL has been because it will send many players directly to pro. But feeding a bunch of guys into D1 for their 21YO season, to me that would be a win for CHL. There are competitive aspects between CHL and NCAA but there are also some win-win opportunities.

 

[Bubbles]

The Blades have signed another US kid, Mason Moreland. Everett signed their other US pick, Cameron Dillard. Everett putting a nice team together. Playing in the States, playing with Dupont and NCAA eligibility...lots of appeal to play for the US teams in the Dub.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Big positive effect for goalies. There probably isn’t a North American goaltender today that shouldn’t go to ncaa. Trying to go pro 20-22 is a disaster for most goaltenders. No goaltender that received any vezina votes in 2024 was CHL trained despite the fact that they run 60 teams per year.

 

[Corso]

Big positive effect for goalies. There probably isn’t a North American goaltender today that shouldn’t go to ncaa. Trying to go pro 20-22 is a disaster for most goaltenders. No goaltender that received any vezina votes in 2024 was CHL trained despite the fact that they run 60 teams per year.

100% agree.

Here's how I see it, rightly or wrongly:

The barrier of entry is going to get higher for both CHL and NCAA D1. In CHL, age 16 for entry as a full-time player is now probably going to be limited mostly to guys with a solid shot at being drafted by the NHL. Then at age 17, it'll probably be mostly the guys who are likely good enough to become four-year NCAA players. If CHL removes the restriction on the number of 20YO players, it makes it easier for teams to keep their top guys for an extended period. The more players that they send directly to pro (especially ELC signees) and D1, the less money they'll have to shell out for scholarships in the long run. Having those older players will help the quality of the league. And, the CHL likes the continuity and the connection to the community that comes with established players.

They can use the USHL/BCHL/Junior A ranks to backfill their rosters as necessary when they lose players with remaining eligibility to pro or D1, and also as a development system for 15YO and 16YO players. If guys know that they can stay in CHL through their age 20 season, it probably improves CHL's chances of picking off some of the better older players from that secondary tier of junior.

Players will have to be better before they can break into NCAA D1 as well. I'm sure that NCAA would be happy to have some of their recruits continue their development in CHL at age 20.

CHL doesn't have to worry about becoming what USHL has been because it will send many players directly to pro. But feeding a bunch of guys into D1 for their 21YO season, to me that would be a win for CHL. There are competitive aspects between CHL and NCAA but there are also some win-win opportunities.

The large majority of NCAA programs are going to want 20 and 21 YO players because that is the type of players they are recruiting now. The real battles are going to be between the Michgians and B.U.s and the various CHL clubs vying for the really elite talent. As mentioned, the CHL will encourage many of those players to sign ELC's but they will also want to give them ample ice time by running the PP and on the PK. and making the CHL older may hamper that ice time availability.