CHL can now play NCAA - change everything !

[SergeConstantin74]

My point is that there will be fewer top draft picks from the NCAA if the NCAA now has a greater access to former CHL players - 18 year olds will get squeezed out because the older players will have those roster spots.

I disagree. I think the NCAA will still have the top NHL drafted 18-19 yo Americans. The second tier 18-19 yo will probably get squeezed out though.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Not really. I'm assuming the WHL & QMJHL are the same as the OHL. if a player leaves the OHL prior to their 19 year old season they forgo their OHL scholarship. If they were leaving early then they would probably need a full ride scholarship. If a player is elite enough to deserve a full ride scholarship then chances are he's already drafted, at which point where do you think his NHL club would rather have him be at 18/19? 68+ games? or half that?

Frequently Asked Questions Pertaining to NCAA Player Eligibility Changes - Ontario Hockey League

1. What NCAA eligibility change has taken place? Canadian Hockey League players have been deemed eligible for NCAA Division I hockey programs following a decision ratified November 7, 2024 by the NCAA’s Division I Council. The language that outlines the specific NCAA eligibility change that goes...

chl.ca

20 year old top draft picks are not playing CHL or NCAA

Confused why more players that currently go the NCAA route when they are 18/19 are going to go the CHL route since they can still go to NCAA, but now will just not go to the NCAA at all or only go if they are 20 years old without NHL options.

Like, logically that doesn't make sense. That's like essentially saying they are going to get tricked.

A player that in the past was 18 and drafted by NHL team could have gone to CHL regardless of what league they had played in when they were 16/17. So why now will the NHL team demand prospects stay in CHL instead of player just doing the same thing they do now, delay signing an ELC and play NCAA?

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Confused why more players that currently go the NCAA route when they are 18/19 are going to go the CHL route since they can still go to NCAA, but now will just not go to the NCAA at all or only go if they are 20 years old without NHL options.

Like, logically that doesn't make sense.

I think the CHL Standard Player Agreement will get ripped up and thrown out in court in both the US and Canada because it isn't fair to restrict an amateur player from attending university just so you can keep them in your junior league. I would think all courts view education >>>>>>> junior hockey organizational business self interest, so that's my guess on how it'll play out.

 

[Otto]

My point is that there will be fewer top draft picks from the NCAA if the NCAA now has a greater access to former CHL players - 18 year olds will get squeezed out because the older players will have those roster spots.

Ahh, thanks for the clarification.

 

[Otto]

Confused why more players that currently go the NCAA route when they are 18/19 are going to go the CHL route since they can still go to NCAA, but now will just not go to the NCAA at all or only go if they are 20 years old without NHL options.

Like, logically that doesn't make sense. That's like essentially saying they are going to get tricked.

A player that in the past was 18 and drafted by NHL team could have gone to CHL regardless of what league they had played in when they were 16/17. So why now will the NHL team demand prospects stay in CHL instead of player just doing the same thing they do now, delay signing an ELC and play NCAA?

Nobody is "getting tricked" it's all laid out in the FAQs I think for most players , especially Americans, it was good to have an option of USHL or NCAA, they lost the NCAA option if they went CHL under the previous agreement. Now, we are seeing 19 year olds jumping at playing in the CHL, because, if their pro career doesn't take the next step they can still get an education.

My question to you is, why are we seeing a lot of 19 year olds jumping to the CHL now?

 

[SergeConstantin74]

A prospect from the QMJHL territory, Robin Benoit, was in attendance for the Sherbrooke Phoenix game. Sherwood Park, Alberta, where he currently plays, to Sherbrooke, Quebec, is a long way to go to attend a game on a Wednesday night. Another one leaving the BCHL?

 

[WarriorofTime]

My question to you is, why are we seeing a lot of 19 year olds jumping to the CHL now?

Not sure what you're asking. Players currently aged 19 making moves this season with plan to play NCAA next season as they would have before? Presumably they think it's a good spot and good for their development and the CHL team thinks the player will help them win more than whatever guy they replace in the lineup.

 

[Otto]

I think the CHL Standard Player Agreement will get ripped up and thrown out in court in both the US and Canada because it isn't fair to restrict an amateur player from attending university just so you can keep them in your junior league. I would think all courts view education >>>>>>> junior hockey organizational business self interest, so that's my guess on how it'll play out.

The thing is, nobody is being restricted. They can go any time, they just won't have it paid for. Ripping up the Standard Player Agreement would be detrimental to the players

Not sure what you're asking. Players currently aged 19 making moves this season with plan to play NCAA next season as they would have before? Presumably they think it's a good spot and good for their development and the CHL team thinks the player will help them win more than whatever guy they replace in the lineup.

They are not transferring to the CHL at anywhere close to the same rate as they have in the past, Prior to this season we'd be lucky to see one or two. it's a lot more now. I think the bigger picture here is how many of these 19 year olds making the jump this year actually end up going to the NCAA, and how many of them earn a contract from their NHL club.

 

[WarriorofTime]

The thing is, nobody is being restricted. They can go any time, they just won't have it paid for.

The players good enough to play NCAA at 18/19 (instead of having to wait until 20 like most players) don't need CHL to pay for their spot.

They are not transferring to the CHL at anywhere close to the same rate as they have in the past, Prior to this season we'd be lucky to see one or two. it's a lot more now. I think the bigger picture here is how many of these 19 year olds making the jump this year actually end up going to the NCAA, and how many of them earn a contract from their NHL club.

Doesn't make sense. If they were playing in the BCHL because they wanted to play in NCAA, if they are now becoming a ringer for a CHL team in the middle of the season, it's not because they suddenly lost interest in playing NCAA. They are still planning to go to the NCAA like they were two months ago.

 

[Otto]

The players good enough to play NCAA at 18/19 (instead of having to wait until 20 like most players) don't need CHL to pay for their spot.

Exactly what I said previously. But I doubt that if they play CHL that they will jump to the NCAA. If they are that good, they will play their 68+ games, earn a contract and play in the NHL or even AH if they are drafted before coming to the CHL

 

[Otto]

The players good enough to play NCAA at 18/19 (instead of having to wait until 20 like most players) don't need CHL to pay for their spot.


Doesn't make sense. If they were playing in the BCHL because they wanted to play in NCAA, if they are now becoming a ringer for a CHL team in the middle of the season, it's not because they suddenly lost interest in playing NCAA. They are still planning to go to the NCAA like they were two months ago.

Sure they are, unless.. they play well enough to earn an NHL contract, at which point they can't play NCAA. Do you seriously think that if a drafted player earns an ELC offer he doesn't sign it because he wants to to to college?

I'll ask again, why are we seeing a much higher rate of (for lack of a better term) defected players this season. And when I say much higher rate, I mean MUCH higher rate, what possible benefit is there to the player?

 

[WarriorofTime]

Exactly what I said previously. But I doubt that if they play CHL that they will jump to the NCAA. If they are that good, they will play their 68+ games, earn a contract and play in the NHL or even AH if they are drafted before coming to the CHL

Players willingly forego signing an NHL ELC to play in NCAA currently. Why would that suddenly stop?

Sure they are, unless.. they play well enough to earn an NHL contract, at which point they can't play NCAA. Do you seriously think that if a drafted player earns an ELC offer he doesn't sign it because he wants to to to college?

Yes, that's exactly my point.

The idea that you only go to college if you don't have an NHL Contract is the incorrect assumption being made.

 

[Otto]

Players willingly forego signing an NHL ELC to play in NCAA currently. Why would that suddenly stop?

That's a very good question. I don't know the rate of players playing NCAA that are offered contracts, nor do I know the logistics/legalities around it. Is it a frequent occurrence? Is there any statistical data around numbers of contracts offered to NCAA players vs. # accepted?

I would say that the likelihood of an 18/19 year old being offered an NHL contract while playing in the CHL is more likely than in the NCAA, because while playing NCAA the NHL teams are not in a rush, they have 4 years to ink them. One of the unknowns here is will that change with this new agreement?

One thing is certain, NHL teams can get a better feel on how a player can handle the grind when that player is playing 68 games + playoffs, vs 32 games. But again I have to ask... why are we seeing a MUCH higher rate of defected players now? What's your reasoning?

 

[Otto]

The idea that you only go to college if you don't have an NHL Contract is the incorrect assumption being made.

If you have an NHL contract you cannot play in the NCAA. That has not changed

 

[WarriorofTime]

That's a very good question. I don't know the rate of players playing NCAA that are offered contracts, nor do I know the logistics/legalities around it. Is it a frequent occurrence? Is there any statistical data around numbers of contracts offered to NCAA players vs. # accepted?

Well we can certainly look at proxies, like the number of Drafted players at certain high profile schools, and we can look at what rounds they were drafted in, and what % of players drafted in those rounds playing on CHL teams have signed NHL Contracts.

This season, in NCAA across all the conferences, there are 16 1st Round Picks, 18 2nd round picks, 29 3rd round picks, 42 4th round picks, 29 5th round picks, 43 6th round picks and 48 7th round picks.

This season in CHL across all the Leagues, there are 22 1st Round Picks, 27 2nd Round Picks, 29 3rd Round Picks, 29 4th Round Picks, 27 5th Round Picks, 27 6th Round Picks, and 17 7th Round Picks

But again I have to ask... why are we seeing a MUCH higher rate of defected players now? What's your reasoning?

Again, not sure your confusion, they are joining a CHL team because they aren't losing the right to play NCAA by doing so.

If you have an NHL contract you cannot play in the NCAA. That has not changed

Right but that doesn't mean you don't have an option to have an NHL Agreement. You could sign an ELC, go to training camp and if you don't make the team, get re-assigned to a Junior team in CHL due to Transfer Agreement. Many high-end kids will wait until they have a good shot to play in the NHL, rather than sign a deal and go to a Junior team or even AHL team.

 

[Otto]

Again, not sure your confusion, they are joining a CHL team because they aren't losing the right to play NCAA by doing so.


Right but that doesn't mean you don't have an option to have an NHL Agreement. You could sign an ELC, go to training camp and if you don't make the team, get re-assigned to a Junior team in CHL due to Transfer Agreement. Many high-end kids will wait until they have a good shot to play in the NHL, rather than sign a deal and go to a Junior team or even AHL team.

OK, but they can also just stay with their current team and then go to NCAA, that doesn't answer my question, why are they leaving? better league? better exposure? earn a contract?

As for the second part, not sure what you're trying to say there. You still cannot play in the NCAA if you have an NHL agreement.

 

[WarriorofTime]

OK, but they can also just stay with their current team and then go to NCAA, that doesn't answer my question, why are they leaving? better league? better exposure? earn a contract?

As for the second part, not sure what you're trying to say there. You still cannot play in the NCAA if you have an NHL agreement.

Sure, get drafted if they haven't yet, get more exposure, play against better players, maybe play closer to home depending on who they are.... but "earn a contract", makes less sense if they are already a good enough high enough drafted player that one would expect them based on draft status to have been a player typically offered an ELC already. A 3rd round pick like Jack Pridham could probably get a Contract, but he's wanted to go to BU, and is still gonna go to BU, not only go to BU if he can't get an ELC to play in the AHL next year.

The Undrafted kids aren't suddenly going to get Contracts now because they play 60 % of a season in a CHL League. Most CHL kids don't get NHL Contracts after their junior days are done.

 

[Otto]

Sure, get drafted if they haven't yet, get more exposure, play against better players, maybe play closer to home depending on who they are.... but "earn a contract", makes less sense if they are already a good enough high enough drafted player that one would expect them based on draft status to have been a player typically offered an ELC already. A 3rd round pick like Jack Pridham could probably get a Contract, but he's wanted to go to BU, and is still gonna go to BU, not only go to BU if he can't get an ELC to play in the AHL next year.

The Undrafted kids aren't suddenly going to get Contracts now because they play 60 % of a season in a CHL League. Most CHL kids don't get NHL Contracts after their junior days are done.

I guess the other question is, how many of the defected players this season have been drafted by the NHL? Does anyone have a complete list of the defected players?

 

[WarriorofTime]

I guess the other question is, how many of the defected players this season have been drafted by the NHL? Does anyone have a complete list of the defected players?

Transactions - Elite Prospects

Ice Hockey Player Database and Transaction Portal

www.eliteprospects.com

Transactions - Elite Prospects

Ice Hockey Player Database and Transaction Portal

www.eliteprospects.com

Transactions - Elite Prospects

Ice Hockey Player Database and Transaction Portal

www.eliteprospects.com

but you have to look at it manually, players move around Leagues all the time

 

[Wieters]

Do you seriously think that if a drafted player earns an ELC offer he doesn't sign it because he wants to to to college?

It's perfectly plausible. I can say that because it happens with players already in college.

Ryan Leonard was offered a spot on the Caps playoff roster last year and he turned it down to go back to school for a year. His reasoning wasn't even that he wanted to develop further; he literally said he just wanted to come back because he wouldn't get another shot at the college experience and he wanted to try to win for his school before leaving.

That's not an exact analog to players turning down an ELC to go from the CHL to the NCAA since these are guys who have already been in the NCAA, but it's not totally unrelated. The college experience is pretty unique/singular and it's not totally farfetched that a teenager might want to spend some time there while overcooking rather than rushing off to maximize their career earnings.

 

[Bubbles]

It's perfectly plausible. I can say that because it happens with players already in college.

Ryan Leonard was offered a spot on the Caps playoff roster last year and he turned it down to go back to school for a year. His reasoning wasn't even that he wanted to develop further; he literally said he just wanted to come back because he wouldn't get another shot at the college experience and he wanted to try to win for his school before leaving.

That's not an exact analog to players turning down an ELC to go from the CHL to the NCAA since these are guys who have already been in the NCAA, but it's not totally unrelated. The college experience is pretty unique/singular and it's not totally farfetched that a teenager might want to spend some time there while overcooking rather than rushing off to maximize their career earnings.

This is an excellent point. The college experience is a lot different in the States than going to a University in Canada. Living on campus and being part of a community is something that is unique and life changing for some.

 

[jtechkid]

A prospect from the QMJHL territory, Robin Benoit, was in attendance for the Sherbrooke Phoenix game. Sherwood Park, Alberta, where he currently plays, to Sherbrooke, Quebec, is a long way to go to attend a game on a Wednesday night. Another one leaving the BCHL?

I think three “ french “ Canadians have left bchl last 2 days - and i think three ushl kids to the Q. Interesting to see if Lorranger is heading to the Q and Dach to WHL - top scorers in BCHL in their draft year .

I think three “ french “ Canadians have left bchl last 2 days - and i think three ushl kids to the Q. Interesting to see if Lorranger is heading to the Q and Dach to WHL - top scorers in BCHL in their draft year .

Yea Benoit is heading to the Q.

 

[Wieters]

This is an excellent point. The college experience is a lot different in the States than going to a University in Canada. Living on campus and being part of a community is something that is unique and life changing for some.

Right, this is something I'm not sure people outside of the US totally appreciate with the NCAA.

College sports in America are an oddity because even though the NCAA is an amateur league, it's not necessarily viewed as less than the professional leagues in America. Kids grow up wanting to play and win in college as an end goal in and of itself and don't see it simply as a stepping stone.

And campus life as a college athlete especially is a one of a kind experience that can't be replicated once left behind even if you're being paid handsomely in the NHL.

Leonard also mentioned how he spoke to a bunch of alumni and many of them told him that if they had the opportunity to redo the experience, they would have stayed in college for longer for no reason other than that it would have been a great time in their lives.

I don't know how much of this appeal will land with Canadian kids, but it certainly has pull with Americans.

 

[Leviathan899]

At present, NIL isn't available to non-US students so it's not a factor for Canadians. But if a prominent US kid can get a decent NIL deal, that definitely might alter how he approaches things. I don't know the financials regarding how much a top hockey player might be able to get from NIL.

CHL will definitely pull plenty of talent away from USHL/BCHL/Junior A. Superior competition will be a draw, and the scholarship funds will entice guys who are questionable in terms of their pro/NCAA hockey potential. Some of the elite prospects with late-in-the-year birthdays will still move to the NCAA for their draft season for the stronger level of competition.

The depth and calibre of NCAA talent is going to improve significantly. There is going to be serious competition for NCAA spots, especially in the short term with so many ex-CHLers available immediately who will be good enough. I bet that there will be some US kids who will come to CHL, play out their junior eligibility, and then take their CHL scholarships and go to school and play hockey at a Canadian university while still hoping to get recruited by the NCAA.

I feel badly for the lower-tier NCAA recruits approaching the end of their junior eligibility who went the USHL/BCHL/Junior A route to maintain their eligibility, got NCAA commitments, and are going to get displaced by CHLers who have at least a decent alternative through the CHL scholarship programs. But things change and it's never going to work in everyone's favour.

Good example is Calem Mangone going to Lake Superior next year, they get a player who’s playing with Misa and Parekh every night. I can see why the big schools were against this move. Same with Jackson Parsons to Clarkson, he’s going to be a good college goalie.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Good example is Calem Mangone going to Lake Superior next year, they get a player who’s playing with Misa and Parekh every night. I can see why the big schools were against this move. Same with Jackson Parsons to Clarkson, he’s going to be a good college goalie.

Like with any change, teams have to adapt. Huge changes in the NCAA landscape were the COVID Super Seniors and the Transfer Portal. When you've found your niche in how you do it, having to adapt can be scary. But at the end of the day, it's adapt or die.

While it may seem monumental, NCAA Coaches will just need to think of it as adjusting their recruiting pipelines, while it's fundamentally all the same. The only thing that's changed is the particular Junior league played in. At the end of the day, the teams that thrive on high NHL Draft Pick one and dones can still do so, the teams that only recruit virtually non-existent pro prospect older players to play system hockey can still do, and the teams that try and find that sweet spot of NHL Caliber talent that sticks around for a while will continue to do so.