CHL can now play NCAA - change everything !

[Oak]

Still a lot of hearsay and it will probably change a decent amount before 26' season starts.

I'll know more later today when I talk to my contact at one of the bigger NHL agencies.

 

[Voight]

I don't see what Landon Dupont will have to gain playing a third year in the CHL over going and getting in a year as the most famous person on a big college campus and adding a Hobey Baker and hopefully natty to the collection.

For most high enders though (1st and 2nd rounders), they'll do their two years in the CHL and the drafting team will push a little harder to get them signed right away in that summer to control them not going the college route and the potential to go free agency.

Thats a stretch. Unless its an absolute hockey focused school who's other sports progrums suck, that won't happen.

True but a lot of players that were on the D-1 track will be pushed down to the D-III level and that will really impact the level of play there for the better.

I agree, cause a low end D1 player is going to be a high end D3 player.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Thats a stretch. Unless its an absolute hockey focused school who's other sports progrums suck, that won't happen.

There are a small handful of places where I'd say the hockey team is the biggest sport program, BU, Maine, MN-Duluth, Denver, Quinnipiac, North Dakota, St. Cloud State. Arguably BC but only because their football and basketball teams are consistently down.

But yes, it's not the norm.

 

[pgfan66]

The new rules don't apply to D3, from what I understand.

But lower-end D1 kids that get pushed out by CHL kids going to college will find a spot in D3 schools if they want it.

 

[Bonin21]

Thats a stretch. Unless its an absolute hockey focused school who's other sports progrums suck, that won't happen.



I agree, cause a low end D1 player is going to be a high end D3 player.

There are a small handful of places where I'd say the hockey team is the biggest sport program, BU, Maine, MN-Duluth, Denver, Quinnipiac, North Dakota, St. Cloud State. Arguably BC but only because their football and basketball teams are consistently down.

But yes, it's not the norm.

BC, BU, UND, Minnesota, Denver you will be the big man on campus. Even though UMN has D1 football and hockey, trust me the hockey players are put above the rest because most of the fellow students are Minnesotan and care about hockey (and most of the hockey players are Minnesotan).

The big players will end up at one of those school, or Michigan/Michigan State. At those two, I'd say the football/bball players are likely a bigger deal.

 

[Boonk]

One thing I think a lot of you guys are missing is you are only evaluating this through the lense of first round draft picks. There are a lot of kids who get drafted who go nowhere, or very good players who dont get drafted.

This will have a bigger effect on them than any first round kid.

Now some of you might say who cares! But if you're involved in the game these kids are people too and some of them are damn fine hockey players who will excel in College.

This change is hurting a lot of kids.

The only thing that was hurting these kids was this useless barrier that was up for decades thats finally coming down. It should have never been enstated to begin with and forced teenage kids on both sides of the border with their whole lives and careers ahead of them to make a quite frankly detrimental choice.

Now kids will have more development paths and options than ever and wont have to be strictly decide between the CHL or NCAA path to pro. There is literally nothing but positive benefits in this change.

 

[WarriorofTime]

BC, BU, UND, Minnesota, Denver you will be the big man on campus. Even though UMN has D1 football and hockey, trust me the hockey players are put above the rest because most of the fellow students are Minnesotan and care about hockey (and most of the hockey players are Minnesotan).

On Minnesota, yeah I think most of the kids being from the state itself does give a really close connection to the study body. High School Hockey is also a big deal in Minnesota, really only place in the country I'd say that. So many of the student body is probably familiar with a good chunk of the players even before they step foot onto campus.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

I think it will work in reverse for a lot of top end players. Go play in the CHL at 16/17 and see how there NHL prospects work. A lot of colleges can use the CHL as a recruiting tool, they get a more complete player at 18. I mean if I was Joe Hockey from Michigan and I get drafted by London and go play at 16 for a couple of years and don't get drafted and Michigan is offering a scholarship at 18 I jump at that chance

 

[Bonin21]

Benefit:
CHL
NCAA D1
NCAA D3 level of play will increase, not sure how much, but in the Midwest they'll get better players than before

Hurt (in order of pain):
BCHL
USHL
NAHL
MN HS

 

[WarriorofTime]

Hurt (in order of pain):
BCHL
USHL
NAHL
MN HS

USports?

 

[qc14]

But lower-end D1 kids that get pushed out by CHL kids going to college will find a spot in D3 schools if they want it.

And the kids already in those D3 programs will get pushed out of them ... disastrous as a whole for American youth development.

I totally get why the NCAA had to push this through themselves, but there really needs to be some sort of summit/transfer agreement/rewriting of rules this summer between the NHL, NCAA, and all junior leagues. I think the best end solution is still the USHL merging into the CHL and a standardization of NHL draft rights, AHL entry age, etc. across all leagues.

 

[Bubbles]

USports?

The completely ignored and most hurt.

 

[Oak]

The only thing that was hurting these kids was this useless barrier that was up for decades thats finally coming down. It should have never been enstated to begin with and forced teenage kids on both sides of the border with their whole lives and careers ahead of them to make a quite frankly detrimental choice.

Now kids will have more development paths and options than ever and wont have to be strictly decide between the CHL or NCAA path to pro. There is literally nothing but positive benefits in this change.

Downside is if you want to pursue D1 and possibly farther you have to go to Canada at 16 or 17. A lot of *American kids dont want to do that and American boys are not treated equally on a lot of CHL teams.

 

[Leviathan899]

I've yet to see any of the talking heads address current CHL contracts. Will players that already have a CHL contract (non-overagers) have the ability to break said contract and bolt for the NCAA without consent of the team? I fail to see why a CHL team would let a good player walk without compensation barring some legal impediment (not saying there aren't any; would just like to know).

I think they would have to settle a transfer fee, but the CHL announced that their education package will be voided if a player decides to leave before fulfilling their 19 year old season. Plus no player on any pro contract can go ncaa, so to me that practically eliminates the chances of them coming for the 1-2 round picks, as a lot of then sign rather quickly after being drafted, and want to attend rookie tournaments, which also won’t be allowed if you transfer to the ncaa.

 

[Oak]

And the kids already in those D3 programs will get pushed out of them ... disastrous as a whole for American youth development.

I totally get why the NCAA had to push this through themselves, but there really needs to be some sort of summit/transfer agreement/rewriting of rules this summer between the NHL, NCAA, and all junior leagues. I think the best end solution is still the USHL merging into the CHL and a standardization of NHL draft rights, AHL entry age, etc. across all leagues.

NCAA did not have to do this. It was done for selfish reasons. That lawsuit was a non issue with the amount of lawyers they have. NCAA sports are a business and almost play a more gangster style than most OHL teams.

I agree that USHL merging into the CHL would be the best case scenario but the USHL would need to fundamentally change how they pay their employees and that might not be feasible.

 

[qc14]

NCAA did not have to do this. It was done for selfish reasons. That lawsuit was a non issue with the amount of lawyers they have. NCAA sports are a business and almost play a more gangster style than most OHL teams.

With the pressure and all of the changes in the NCAA surrounding NIL, they absolutely did have to do this. They've been losing basically every court case against them the last five years and would've lost the ones brought specifically about this rule.

I'm sure coaches wanted it to change too, but it was rushed for a reason.

 

[Leviathan899]

Problem is that you are assuming the USHL will continue to exist. So far we have one rumor of USHL and CHL merging which would be good but the more likely scenario is that it withers away little by little every season.

Yes there will still be an option for the 5 and 4 star level prospect in the OHL but if you are considering the above average American player who would be a role player well those kids will be kicking rocks.

I coach Prep hockey in the New England district. Even though it has become a less popular route every single one of these kids wants to play NCAA d1. Maybe my lense is skewed or slightly liberal. 50% will play NAHL, the other 50% USHL. I can think of multiple kids who are in the USHL/BCHL this year who would never get a sniff if the scenario we are talking about was in play already.

Does it make me feel bad for American kids? Yes.

I do agree it will raise the bar, but at what cost? NCAA used to be the place for the student athlete. Seems like they want to be feeder systems for pro teams but if you look at the history of college hockey that is not what they have been or should be. I guess money talks.

Also the paragraph I wrote that you are disagreeing with, after reading it again I should have replaced excel with "do well" because yes they most likely wont excel.

Is it really a less popular route? Being from Ontario, I don’t know a ton about the New England prep school scene, but I’ve always been enamoured by it and find it sort of fascinating. A lot of those schools have such deep history and roots, and the passion of the students is cool to see. I know it’s not the ideal route for the Zegras’ of the world, but I always thought it was a strong route for kids to earn D1 scholarships. Has it changed recently?

 

[Leviathan899]

in addition , this will completely kill the Prep
school model , midget hockey and programs like shattick over the next 5 years . this trend has slowly been happening but this will accelerate it . i’m hearing 20-30 CHl kids will sign next week with usa college. yesterday CHL leagues put out press release like they won the lottery and while ushl / bchl on the defensive as they know their in trouble .usa hockey is sleeping as usual .

Kitchener Rangers starting goalie, Jackson Parsons, who’s an OA right now just committed to Clarkson for next season. So that’s one goalie spot taken from any prospective goalie playing ushl, BCHL, prep school, etc. This will make college hockey slightly better in overall quality, but I do fear it will demoralize more kids in general. A lot of those late bloomers may feel they won’t have as many opportunities now that ncaa can go and poach a 20 year old from the CHL.

 

[qc14]

I think they would have to settle a transfer fee, but the CHL announced that their education package will be voided if a player decides to leave before fulfilling their 19 year old season. Plus no player on any pro contract can go ncaa, so to me that practically eliminates the chances of them coming for the 1-2 round picks, as a lot of then sign rather quickly after being drafted, and want to attend rookie tournaments, which also won’t be allowed if you transfer to the ncaa.

I thought I read somewhere that the NCAA was going to rewrite rules to allow drafted but unsigned players to attend more beefed-up rookie camps/tournaments but I could be wrong on that.

A lot will depend on how the NHL changes when drafted rights expire and AHL eligibility rules but I can definitely see teams telling their top prospects that they're not going to sign them right away as they want them to play in college (a much, much better developmental league for top prospects).

The big problem isn't for the 1st and 2nd rounders though who always have and always will be flush with good options. It's for the guys at the bottom of NCAA rosters and the American (and Canadian BCHL) kids who know they don't have the talent to be pros but still see college hockey as a very real and meaningful path to continue both playing the game they love and getting a good education. Just more professionalization of the NCAA game, which especially given the unique junior system in ice hockey compared to other sports provides a lot of perverse incentives

 

[Leviathan899]

BC, BU, UND, Minnesota, Denver you will be the big man on campus. Even though UMN has D1 football and hockey, trust me the hockey players are put above the rest because most of the fellow students are Minnesotan and care about hockey (and most of the hockey players are Minnesotan).

The big players will end up at one of those school, or Michigan/Michigan State. At those two, I'd say the football/bball players are likely a bigger deal.

I just don’t see this move impacting the top CHL guys much at all. Remember all of them would have had the chance to commit to a school of their choice before choosing the CHL, and while before they’d have to go to a league a step down than the CHL for a couple of years before going to school, they decided to go to the CHL. A big part of that choice for the top guys is the ability to sign a pro contract soon after being drafted. This move won’t allow them to do that, nor could they attend things like NHL rookie tournaments. Plus if they do decide they want to leave the CHL after 2-3 years and go ncaa, they lose access to their education fund. So to use DuPont as an example, he will still be in highschool during his NHL draft year, and although he could fast track his schooling to enter at 17, he’d have no education package to use, and based on how he’s trending, he’s likely to sign an NHL contract the minute he’s drafted. So at most he’d have one season in ncaa and that’s if he fast tracks his schooling. But since he was awarded exceptional status, and wanted to play CHL, I can’t see why a player like him would take advantage of this new rule. Like Ryan Kennedy from the Hockey News tweeted out, 05 Oliver Tulk seems like the type of player most likely to be impacted by this. Undrafted 19-20 year olds who may be undersized or needing more time before going pro.

 

[Corso]

NCAA did not have to do this. It was done for selfish reasons. That lawsuit was a non issue with the amount of lawyers they have. NCAA sports are a business and almost play a more gangster style than most OHL teams.

I agree that USHL merging into the CHL would be the best case scenario but the USHL would need to fundamentally change how they pay their employees and that might not be feasible.

The NCAA had no choice but to do this. Those lawyers you mentioned, well they are all saying that the NCAA stood no chance of winning in court. Hockey is more of an afterthought to that governing body and they did not want to incur another loss or more litigation because of it.

There are some USHL franchises that have the financial means to join the CHL. Fargo, Sioux Falls, Chicago (due to ownership not fan support or revenue) and Green Bay. The rest would struggle financially. The problem with those franchises is location. Perhaps Chicago could join the OHL but it's a very very long way from Sioux Falls to Regina, Saskatchewan. Perhaps they and Fargo could join the WHL but would the Dub want more teams on their periphery?

 

[Leviathan899]

I thought I read somewhere that the NCAA was going to rewrite rules to allow drafted but unsigned players to attend more beefed-up rookie camps/tournaments but I could be wrong on that.

A lot will depend on how the NHL changes when drafted rights expire and AHL eligibility rules but I can definitely see teams telling their top prospects that they're not going to sign them right away as they want them to play in college (a much, much better developmental league for top prospects).

The big problem isn't for the 1st and 2nd rounders though who always have and always will be flush with good options. It's for the guys at the bottom of NCAA rosters and the American (and Canadian BCHL) kids who know they don't have the talent to be pros but still see college hockey as a very real and meaningful path to continue both playing the game they love and getting a good education. Just more professionalization of the NCAA game, which especially given the unique junior system in ice hockey compared to other sports provides a lot of perverse incentives

I disagree that it’s a better development league for top prospects, in fact I’d say the opposite is true. The CHL is the far better development model if your goal is pro hockey and the NHL. Much better coaching overall, more pro like schedule and more high end talent overall. The ncaa is good if you need more time to develop physically and grow your game. Plus NHL teams aren’t overly keen on their players going to school as they have less control over their prospects there, and they can’t sign them either. But no, the ncaa won’t allow players to attend NHL rookie tournaments, that was stated today. For example, guys like Cal Ritchie, Beckett Sennecke, Easton Cowan, Oliver Bonk, Carson Rehkopf, Denver Barkey, Colby Barlow, Ben Danford, Sam Dickinson, Owen Allard, Luca Pinelli, Nick Lardis, Jett Luchanko, Quintin Musty, Carey Terrance would all be ineligible to join the NCAA from the OHL, as they’ve all signed NHL contracts. So that eliminates basically all the leagues top players, and why would someone like Michael Misa, Martone, Schaefer, O’Brien, Spence want to go to the ncaa in their draft year? So it’s basically going to be 20-21 year olds who haven’t signed nhl contracts. Still going to be some good players, like Jackson Parsons who just committed to Clarkson from Kitchener.

 

[Blue and Green]

A lot will depend on how the NHL changes when drafted rights expire and AHL eligibility rules but I can definitely see teams telling their top prospects that they're not going to sign them right away as they want them to play in college (a much, much better developmental league for top prospects).

NCAA hockey is obviously a step up in calibre from CHL but "a much, much better developmental league" is hyperbolic. CHL plays a lot more games, that's one of the draws. Also, there will be some kids who aren't interested in going to university, and/or don't have the grades.