Fair enough but I also think that quite a few CHL teams could beat them in a game.
CHL can now play NCAA - change everything !
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Bjorn Le
Hobocop
It was a ridiculous suggestion by that poster. The US NTDP U18 team beats NCAA teams every year (decent ones sometime) and the NTDP U18 team would not be a strong CHL team in any of the three leagues. Stonehill, which was the worst D1 school last year, is multiple steps below the NTDP in terms of talent. It would be like suggesting the Australian men's hockey team would win every single game against the Canadian World Junior team.
Hearing around the rinks that some kids on top teams are interested in going to the CHL next year if they don't make the NTDP. Not good for USHL or USA hockey.
Interesting to see what happens with Muskegon and Youngstown.
Rabid Ranger
2 is better than one
I agree with this. I think the USHL, at least the strongest teams, have done fairly well up to this point but things are shifting, especially if Youngstown and Muskegon jump ship to the OHL. With this new pathway to development, I can actually see an uptick in American participation in the CHL. Why not? The fear of losing eligibility won't be there and you can likely be in a better development situation. Sure, some of these CHL outposts suck, but so do a lot of those in USHL.
Rabid Ranger
2 is better than one
What I'm really interested in is whether or not a few of the very best will spurn the NTDP altogether.
Right now, USA Hockey is trying to grind the gears so to speak on OHL expansion but there very well maybe legal problems for them because of it.
Should make the upcoming OHL draft interesting. I think we will have a good idea of the conversations being had behind closed doors if we see more Americans being picked in the top few rounds.
Think the issue is USHL will be weaker but by how much then the best USA kids want to play in the best league against kids in draft year . The NTDP like USHL never had really competition so can they adjust and adapt . in addition , do you want play 3-4 th line no PP on ntdp or go to CHL team will you have chance for top 6 - pp put up some points .
I've never really stopped to think about it but ya, I think the NTDP going away wouldn't hurt American hockey or team USA much.
NTDP is usually upfront on plans for a player, what role they see them playing and whether a player will get PP time. I can see kids who are capable but not offered PP time saying no thanks and taking their chances in CHL.
Do you think Quentin Musty is happy with his decision to spurn the NTDP? The developmental pathway aside, USA Hockey doesn't forget. No coincidence that the story leaked about Musty not having been invited to the WJC even if he hadn't been injured.
He is definitely an example of what can happen but the reality is he signed a contract already. Do you think it really matters in the long run that he cant play in a world juniors tournament?
He is getting paid and he will see NHL time eventually. How long his career goes is anyones guess but I dont think not playing in a juniors tournament will effect how long he plays in the NHL.
If enough high-end prospects spurn the NTDP, USA Hockey will have no choice but to invite and name them to the WJC.
The WJC is just one aspect. Whatever his issues are with Sudbury would have been averted if he had gone the NTDP --> NCAA route too and retained more control over his own destiny. You're right that he might still be fine, but it was not a good decision in pretty much any way.
Projecting that there are going to be en masse defections of American kids from the NTDP to the CHL is basically saying the program is going to collapse. Are you suggesting that?
Golden_Jet
Registered User
- Sep 21, 2005
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Poster never said en Masse, said “if” enough high end…..
NTDP I think will not be as strong as we move forward.
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
What even is this discussion?
USHL has lost literally nothing at this point, teams or important players.
Every other week some guy who 90% of even the diehards here haven’t heard of leaves for whatever random reasons we need this stupid discussion rehashed?
At least wait for something to happen before you make such outlandish claims.
USHL has lost literally nothing at this point, teams or important players.
Every other week some guy who 90% of even the diehards here haven’t heard of leaves for whatever random reasons we need this stupid discussion rehashed?
At least wait for something to happen before you make such outlandish claims.
Kingpin794
Smart A** In A Jersey
We'll find out about the teams one way or another by the end of the month.
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
Probably not. It’s a much longer process, even if they want to leave, than the OHL offers them membership. Lawsuits, sorting out how it would logistically work, etc.
If anything, there’s much more concrete evidence of big names leaving the CHL, but you don’t see anyone making these doomish claims about the future of the CHL.
How about everyone relaxes and resorts to their own corners (or better yet just doesn’t say anything needlessly antagonistic) and we wait to see what happens before the partisan nonsense comes out?
I think the big issue i hear and lot others who know people who play ushl is how they are handling i dont think shows the picture . Right now you probably have 13-15 kids bolt to CHL but if you didnt have that large transfer fee intimadation( thats what it is ) that number would be dramatically higher . They should set up a deal with chl based on service and make 5-10 k . if ushl such a strong league need make fair deals kids can leave and just go pick up new kids . in my view if you didnt have threat of big transfer fee you might have 40-60 kids gone already
wickedwitch
Registered User
- Mar 21, 2010
- 1,821
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By that logic, why doesn't the CHL let any player leave for the AHL? If they're such a strong league, the CHL should just be able to go pick up new kids.
Kingpin794
Smart A** In A Jersey
I'm certainly no lawyer but I don't know if USA hockey is going to have a great time if they get sued over CHL expansion. It certainly might slow things down. If they have full say in the entire US, then the addition of Wenatchee with zero push back isn't going to help them. It could be shown that they only want to protect USHL territory and that might violate some anti trust laws (again, not a lawyer). They didn't push back on Saginaw or Flint getting teams. So there's even precedent for them not fighting back against the OHL in the USHL territory. Lot of courts will side with ownership if they want to move teams. "Team wants to leave your league? Oh well, sounds like a you problem" may be the response they get.
The real question is does the OHL want to get on the bad side of USA Hockey for two franchises that have, in all honesty, limited ability to drive both revenue and growth for the league. Youngstown is not a rich market and, while it has a relatively newish building, its attendance is atrocious. If it cannot be dramatically increased, the 'new' franchise will fail as it tries to meet a much larger expenditure required by playing in the OHL. While Muskegon is in a better position, its arena, despite recent upgrades, is still on the small side and will require more upgrades over time due to its age. Yes, both owners are relatively wealthy, but owners are transitory and do either markets really have the inherent wealth to stand on their own?
The OHL would love to deliver a death blow to the USHL but would the cost be worth it? Does the OHL want the enmity of USA Hockey, or will it decline the offers of Muskegon and Youngstown while pursuing American expansion with the full blessing of USA Hockey?
So at this point we’ve heard Misa is committing to BC, BU, Michigan and now Minnesota. Yet we’ve still yet to see a good 05-07 born forward commit anywhere. Luca Marrelli whose an 05 and a recent 3rd round pick of Columbus just signed his ELC today, and his type was what many thought would go to ncaa next year over signing elc’s. Most good prospects are still going to prioritize signing ELC’s over ncaa.
I’ve heard that there won’t even be a NTDP U18 team going forward, strictly U17.
Who knows what he thinks. Carey Terrance plays in the O and they’ve taken him multiple times. Musty is just not a very good kid, character wise. He’s a package.
There really aren’t any important players in the USHL this season lol as far as pro prospects go, it’s very bad.
Valentini and Croskery are obviously good. I hope we’ll see them both back in Ontario next year.
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