Proposal: Chicago - STL

[Dbrownss]

I think you are overestimating. You realize there were only 17 70+ point players in the whole league last year right? Tarasenko scored 74. You think Schwartz is as good offensively as Tarasenko?

A 70ish point player that is excellent away from the puck is Kopitar. Schwartz will never touch Kopitar.

Many Blues fans felt the same way, he scored 63 in 75 iirc prior to his injury. It was honestly 50/50 between him and Tarasenko at the time. Then he broke his ankle in practice, didnt look nearly as good coming back. That's to be expected though considering the injury and time he missed.

This is why i said he he returns to form. Its very possible Schwartz is just a 50-60pt player. As for my comment away from the puck. Its just subjective.

 

[Ranksu]

Not right now, but if Panarin wants 6mil+, then I think the Blackhawks would be smart to do it, if only to save some cash.

ST Louis might have to add a 3rd or something...

Schwartz + Husso <-> Panarin

 

[Evocable Manager]

This is a pretty lateral move. The upgrade isn't significant and I question if it is even an upgrade. Schwartz has great chemistry with Lehtera and Tarasenko, should he remain healthy he could put up 65+ points and potentially 30 goals. Panarin probably has the higher offensive capability but it evens out considering Schwartz is better without the puck. We'd have to pay Panarin a lot more than what Schwartz is making so I don't see any reason for this. Tarasenko may be Panarin's friend, but that doesn't matter and I'm certain Tarasenko has other friends on the team.

This trade would be made to help the Hawks, which I'm sure the Blues have no interest in. If Schwartz was being moved for a center around his age and near the same talent level, the trade would make more sense. But there isn't any fits out there.

 

[thedoughboy]

Chicago was lucky to get Anisimov for Saad (yeah, it was more, but other parts are mostly gone). Next time the team can be not so lucky. And even Anisimov has just turned out to be better, than most people thought, otherwise the trade wouldn't look that good.

Sure, they got back quality for quality. A 2nd line center as well as a top rated prospect (granted they traded that away in a separate deal). If they do end up dealing Panarin it will be for good players

That fact that you think Schwartz is a lesser player than Panarin shows that you know nothing. You're just one of those media hype people.

Or I've watched Panrin for every game hes played in a Hawk uniform and see what most people don't on any given night. He creates offense just as much as kane, case in point the game against LA where Panarin-Anisimov-Hossa was tearing it up. You can like schwartz all you want, but Panarin handily beat Schwartz best season for points as a rookie, having never played on NA ice before. Hale Schwartz' defensive game as much as you want but his CF% and FF% are trash compared to Panarins as well.

 

[emeyezee]

Disregard this. I read it as Anisimov for Schwartz

Um you mean the NHL's leading goal scorer!? Anisimov>>>>> Schwartz!!!!!

I kid, obviously, but I'd say both teams are pretty happy with keeping their respective players for this trade scenario.

 

[Evocable Manager]

Hale Schwartz' defensive game as much as you want but his CF% and FF% are trash compared to Panarins as well.

Schwartz CF%RelTM is 11.9
Panarin's CF%RelTM is 6.5

Last season Schwartz had a CF%RelTM was 2.00, Panarin had 3.86.

Even if your argument was true, you should know defense has a lot more than corsi. Things that aren't in data and simply can be known from watching a player, seeing how he positions himself, his reads, how he battles and if we can take his man. Schwartz is very strong in a lot of defensive aspects. They are very close in terms of value and Schwartz is cheaper, whereas Panarin will cost a lot. You've watched 1 season of Panarin, I've watched 4 of Schwartz. Both are excellent players and very even.

 

[StLHokie]

So basically this a trade for equivalent players, but made to help improve Chicago's cap situation. No thanks. And adding to Schwartz is comical when Chicago is already being helped out by the cap reduction.

 

[Kshahdoo]

It's funny to read this thread and then STL board, where St. Louis fans whine about lack of at least another good goalscorer, because Fabbri and Schwartz can't score...

 

[Falco Lombardi]

I'd love to see Panarin in a blue note, but the only way that happens is if he signs as a free agent and I somehow doubt he ever gets that opportunity.

 

[Kshahdoo]

I'd love to see Panarin in a blue note, but the only way that happens is if he signs as a free agent and I somehow doubt he ever gets that opportunity.

STL doesn't have a lot of cap space as well to sign Panarin without big trade/trades.

 

[EastonBlues22]

Sure, they got back quality for quality. A 2nd line center as well as a top rated prospect (granted they traded that away in a separate deal). If they do end up dealing Panarin it will be for good players



Or I've watched Panrin for every game hes played in a Hawk uniform and see what most people don't on any given night. He creates offense just as much as kane, case in point the game against LA where Panarin-Anisimov-Hossa was tearing it up. You can like schwartz all you want, but Panarin handily beat Schwartz best season for points as a rookie, having never played on NA ice before. Hale Schwartz' defensive game as much as you want but his CF% and FF% are trash compared to Panarins as well.

Hockey Reference has Schwartz's career CF% and FF% at 53.6% and 54.1%, respectively.

Panarin's at 53.4% and 51.8%, respectively.

Jaden had better numbers than Panarin in both categories if you are just talking about last year as well.

Not that I really think those numbers mean much of anything when it comes to proving the point you are trying to prove (especially when Panarin has a career OZS of 77% ). I'm just curious how you justify saying that Schwartz's numbers are "trash" compared to Panarin's when Panarin's numbers are worse.

 

[EastonBlues22]

It's funny to read this thread and then STL board, where St. Louis fans whine about lack of at least another good goalscorer, because Fabbri and Schwartz can't score...

Schwartz put up 28 goals in his last healthy season, and 25 the year before that.

Regardless of what knee-jerk reactions you get early in the season, saying that Schwartz "can't score" is obviously not true. Trading a scorer to get a scorer doesn't exactly put the Blues leaps and bounds ahead of where they were before the trade.

 

[JustABlackhawksFan]

This would never happen.

I think Panarin will sign a long-term deal with the Blackhawks, but IF that doesn't happen, Chicago would never trade his RFA rights to the Blues of all teams.

 

[rumrokh]

It's funny to read this thread and then STL board, where St. Louis fans whine about lack of at least another good goalscorer, because Fabbri and Schwartz can't score...

Did it ever occur to you that any individual doesn't represent a fanbase and a fanbase doesn't represent any individual? It's only funny if you expect one or both of those things to be true.

 

[Dbrownss]

This would never happen.

I think Panarin will sign a long-term deal with the Blackhawks, but IF that doesn't happen, Chicago would never trade his RFA rights to the Blues of all teams.

Yep. It would take some extreme bouncing around to get him in Stl.


This thread can probably go away now, Im suprised it hasnt turned to more of a bash fest

 

[bleedblue1223]

Hale Schwartz' defensive game as much as you want but his CF% and FF% are trash compared to Panarins as well.

Corsi/Fenwick doesn't equal offense, and you have to factor in the fact that Panarin received some of the easiest minutes in the league. Of all players with more than 5 games, he ranked 3rd in offensive zone starts at 76.2% on Hockey Reference. Obviously someone who spends the majority of the time in the offensive zone is going to have good Corsi and Fenwick stats, that doesn't mean they are good defensively.

 

[Falco Lombardi]

STL doesn't have a lot of cap space as well to sign Panarin without big trade/trades.

Exactly.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

If the Hawks move Panarin, I guarantee it won't be down I-55 to our biggest rival.

 

[542365]

I'll keep Schwartz, thanks.

 

[57special]

Sure that'll happen. On the day the Wild trade Suter to the Avs for Mackinnon, and WPG trades Scheiflee to NSH for Josi.

 

[Toene]

Habs fan here. I offer a freshly made Schwartz' Montreal style smoked-meat sandwich for a Uno's straight-out-of-the-oven deep-dish pizza.

There's way more chance that this deal would happen than OP's proposal.

 

[Toene]

Schwartz smoked-meat

for

Pan(arin)-pizza

Is my final offer. Take it or leave it.

 

[Dbrownss]

Damn....that sandwhich looks amazing...

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Yea, I'm not trading our #2LW to our biggest rival right after signing him to a 5 year contract. I don't see why the Hawks would either.

 

[thedoughboy]

Schwartz CF%RelTM is 11.9
Panarin's CF%RelTM is 6.5

Last season Schwartz had a CF%RelTM was 2.00, Panarin had 3.86.

Even if your argument was true, you should know defense has a lot more than corsi. Things that aren't in data and simply can be known from watching a player, seeing how he positions himself, his reads, how he battles and if we can take his man. Schwartz is very strong in a lot of defensive aspects. They are very close in terms of value and Schwartz is cheaper, whereas Panarin will cost a lot. You've watched 1 season of Panarin, I've watched 4 of Schwartz. Both are excellent players and very even.

hockey reference has schwartz at (for 5v5) -0.6, 0.6, and 2.1 for the last three seasons (not including this one) for CF%rel, -0.2, -1.9, 0.6 for FF%rel for the last three seasons as well (15/16 being the first numbers)

Panarins last year was CF%Rel was 3.0 last year, and his FF% was 2.2.

Corsica has schwartz at -1.01 and -2.26 for CFrel% and FFrel% respectively

Panarin was at 1.59 and 0.69 for both

Where did you get your stats from? factoring in contract situations and all I'd say they are close in value, but I'd take panarin 10/10 as the better player. bit of bias, but none the less