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Speculation: Chicago scouting Colorado (5 straight games, GM in person today)

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Probably the only realistic pieces of interest to the Avs from Chicago's roster:

Hall
Donato
Murphy
Martinez
Seth Jones
Reichel as a reclamation

On most of those there would likely have to be significant retention and/or money going back to make it viable.
 
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John Mandalorian said:
Yes. Indeed it is terrible. Never mind Rantanen.

The Jones contract was Chicago’s mistake. They need to fix their mistake by retaining to where his value then makes him appealing. And Chicago needs to retain without being compensated for it if they’re fixing their mistake.

He’s overpaid by at least 2M per year - that’s now. It might even be more by the end of the deal. He becomes a FA in 2030. That’s 12M of salary bloat as cap dump if someone takes on the entire contract. If a 1st is the value for taking on 6M of cap dump, you’re now looking at 2 firsts for him having such a bloated salary.

Also, it’s extremely hard to imagine that Bertuzzi would ever play for the Avs.
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Oh yeah, I guess there was that whole thing with Uncle Todd. Didn't think of that connection.

On Jones though, if the cap is going to 97m, Jones will be paid fairly. Hell, even now I bet he looks a lot better on the Avs than Chi and no one cares what he makes. GM's pay for this type of guy, even if his +/- is bad on a shit team. You retain 2m, and you have a bidding war. You can try and argue that he is overpaid and "x amount is worth all the picks Yada yada" well ok, then go find a cheap top 4 RHD who can munch minutes and put up points. I won't wait up as every team is looking for that guy to some degree.

The league is kind of in a weird spot in that not many top end D have signed recently, so some of the best guys are still steals midway through their term as they were signed with a much lower cap or out of their ELC. The max contract for fwds has increased by 1.5m in the last couple years. The last big name D to sign was Dahlin(?), a year ago, and he didn't push the max at 11. What I'm getting at, is in a couple years when Makar/Hughes are busting through that ceiling and making idk, 15+? as both are signidicantly better than Dahlin; well your gonna have a lot more mid guys getting Jones money. So I disagree that the deal looks worse in a couple years, I think the opposite ends up true.

And this assumes Colorado and Mikko can't come to terms on a deal, because Jones+Teuvo++ is a lot better than nothing next year if Mikko follows the money. Which I wouldn't be able to match if he is looking for 13+. Not for a guy that needs Mackinnon for his line to not get caved.
 
Jarvi said:
Oh yeah, I guess there was that whole thing with Uncle Todd. Didn't think of that connection.

On Jones though, if the cap is going to 97m, Jones will be paid fairly. Hell, even now I bet he looks a lot better on the Avs than Chi and no one cares what he makes. GM's pay for this type of guy, even if his +/- is bad on a shit team. You retain 2m, and you have a bidding war. You can try and argue that he is overpaid and "x amount is worth all the picks Yada yada" well ok, then go find a cheap top 4 RHD who can munch minutes and put up points. I won't wait up as every team is looking for that guy to some degree.

The league is kind of in a weird spot in that not many top end D have signed recently, so some of the best guys are still steals midway through their term as they were signed with a much lower cap or out of their ELC. The max contract for fwds has increased by 1.5m in the last couple years. The last big name D to sign was Dahlin(?), a year ago, and he didn't push the max at 11. What I'm getting at, is in a couple years when Makar/Hughes are busting through that ceiling and making idk, 15+? as both are signidicantly better than Dahlin; well your gonna have a lot more mid guys getting Jones money. So I disagree that the deal looks worse in a couple years, I think the opposite ends up true.

And this assumes Colorado and Mikko can't come to terms on a deal, because Jones+Teuvo++ is a lot better than nothing next year if Mikko follows the money. Which I wouldn't be able to match if he is looking for 13+. Not for a guy that needs Mackinnon for his line to not get caved.
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Teams have to manage the cap today. Also, you can’t assume Jones won’t have age regression. By the time mid guys are making 9M, he may not even be that.

You have to also consider other options today. There are players making half of what Jones is making today, yet he’s not twice as good as them. Don’t get me wrong. He’s a good D but he’s not 9.5M good. His value probably aligns more in the range of 6.5-7.0M...and maybe it would be more if he was on a team having more success. Cant know that for sure though.

Besides, this topic is probably a waste of time. Jones would be a very unAvs like target based on how they’ve operated in the past.

And constantly reiterating that Jones would be better than losing Rantanen for nothing is also untrue. The whole justification for letting him walk would be to use the space for depth. Jones’ salary takes up so much of that space, it precludes them from adding depth.
 
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Jarvi said:
No, what's terrible is trading a young top 4 dman for Casey Mittelstadt. Or paying a winger who can't drive a line 14 million.
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Are people already forgetting that putting Rants on their 2nd line center during their cup run when they ran through injury troubles kept them afloat?
 
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Jarvi said:
No, what's terrible is trading a young top 4 dman for Casey Mittelstadt. Or paying a winger who can't drive a line 14 million.
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Mikko Rantanen is 8th All-Time in points per game in the post-season.

Over the last three playoff runs, he's scored 49 points (T-1st Colorado). Only 21 of those points included MacKinnon (42%).

While it's true MacKinnon and Rantanen play (and score) a lot together during the regular season, it's untrue to say the latter can't drive his own line. He's done so consistently at the most important time of the season.
 
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Jarvi said:
Agreed. He should be nowhere near the highest paid guy in the league, and it sounds like that's what he is looking for. But for fun,

Rantanen+Mittelstadt
For
Seth Jones+Teravainen/Bertuzzi+Hall?

Gives Bedard a guy to play with who has all the experience in the world, and can be a great second fiddle. gets rid of Jones, and they get a 2C.

Avs look at it as Jones@ 9.5>Mikko@ 13+ long term. Also gives them a couple forwards to replace those lost, one signed for cheaper than Mikko long term and a rental who can maybe be a bit of a driver on his own line better than Mitts seems to be for them?

Or maybe it's Mikko for Picks that they turn around and use elsewhere to fix the roster.
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Jesus that’s a wild proposal lol. Avs are trying to win a cup, they aren’t making a deal where they give up the two best players in the trade.
 
Rantanen-Bedard-Teravainen
Bertuzzi-Misa-Nazar
Reichel-Dickinson-Mikheyev
Slaggart-Donato-Foligno
Dach
 
Jarvi said:
No, what's terrible is trading a young top 4 dman for Casey Mittelstadt. Or paying a winger who can't drive a line 14 million.
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Hope this helps
1737475014538.png
 
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Jarvi said:
Agreed. He should be nowhere near the highest paid guy in the league, and it sounds like that's what he is looking for. But for fun,

Rantanen+Mittelstadt
For
Seth Jones+Teravainen/Bertuzzi+Hall?

Gives Bedard a guy to play with who has all the experience in the world, and can be a great second fiddle. gets rid of Jones, and they get a 2C.

Avs look at it as Jones@ 9.5>Mikko@ 13+ long term. Also gives them a couple forwards to replace those lost, one signed for cheaper than Mikko long term and a rental who can maybe be a bit of a driver on his own line better than Mitts seems to be for them?

Or maybe it's Mikko for Picks that they turn around and use elsewhere to fix the roster.
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Worst trade proposal I have seen on this page lmao. Yeah let's trade top 10 player for a huge negative value. Not every superstar is flashy but they still produce better than most flashy players. Like Rantanen, Draisaitl, Reinhart..
 
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