GDT: Chicago @ Carolina—Tuesday, October 15, 7 PM

[Finlandia WOAT]

secondary scoring is great and needed but Muller's "new" brilliant system has effectively stifled the top line. without them scoring they lose. period. they are not dogging it. they are doing what all players do and that's do what the coach tells them to. same goes for special teams that master Muller has been orchestrating to no avail.

Eric Staal does this every year. He's remarkably consistent in that regard; start slow, then pick up the pace later on. And Semin has always been streaky. It's our luck that they are both in a funk at the same time.

They'll pick it back up. Eric Staal obtained at least 70 points in every year between the lockouts- something only 2 other players can say (Joe Thornton and one other). The factor we need to worry about is if the secondary scoring will continue to bolster that top line.

 

[Finnish Jerk Train]

This will surely upset the hockey gods. You know what happened the last time a GDT went up the day before?? Khudobin got injured.

I was just planning ahead! It was a 1 PM game and I knew I'd be dead to the world that morning!

I sincerely hope The Great Anton, the team, the hockey gods, and our fanbase can forgive me for my lamentable transgressions.

 

[tomdundo]

I was just planning ahead! It was a 1 PM game and I knew I'd be dead to the world that morning!

I sincerely hope The Great Anton, the hockey gods, and our fanbase can forgive me for my lamentable transgressions.

Oh, yours is absolutely fine. I have no qualms with it. Putting up a GDT for a 1PM game prior to midnight is perfectly acceptable.


Putting up a GDT more than 24 hours prior to puck drop, though...

 

[rocky7]

Highway To Cap Hell............ you may be right but taking Jiri off that line this soon suggests that they can't answer to the opponents defense of them which is the wrong course of action IMO. this line has always been defensively responsible and yet still produce profusely. telling them to play more D proportionately affects their offensive contributions.

maybe it's a slow start. I think it's the new system that they are having trouble with. hard to do both well.

and for sure the secondary scoring is crucial. can't be a one line team. Muller has changed this line systematically. it's not Jiri "forgetting" how/what to do. he is the best there if their focus is offense imo. which it should be. like last year. they focused on scoring and were one of the top lines in the league. slow start fine buy Muller's tinkering has affected their role and success so far imo.

 

[Finnish Jerk Train]

Oh, yours is absolutely fine. I have no qualms with it. Putting up a GDT for a 1PM game prior to midnight is perfectly acceptable.


Putting up a GDT more than 24 hours prior to puck drop, though...

Haha, I figured as much. Just playing along.

Also, I hope someone caught the Prestige reference. Great movie, that was.

 

[What the Faulk]

Haha, I figured as much. Just playing along.

Also, I hope someone caught the Prestige reference. Great movie, that was.

I must have missed it. Agreed though, great movie

 

[geehaad]

Putting up a GDT more than 24 hours prior to puck drop, though...

Well, it won't be a problem as long as the thread doesn't get cluttered with posts that have nothing to do with the game.

 

[jeromeo87]

A big concern of mine: J.Staal.

This guy needs to get going. Who knows, maybe Tlusty and J.Staal have great chemistry. Something needs to happen to get J.Staal producing.

 

[daikan]

Oh, yours is absolutely fine. I have no qualms with it. Putting up a GDT for a 1PM game prior to midnight is perfectly acceptable.


Putting up a GDT more than 24 hours prior to puck drop, though...

Ah, well, here's my reasoning: as we all know, in any GDT on this board there is a watershed, so to say, in the game, after which there will be nothing but complaining and doomsaying. For instance, the Phoenix GDT really spiralled downward after the goal early on the third. So if you create the GDT, say, an hour before game-time, what you get is basically one hour and one period of tentative optimism, then three days of energetic mass-despondency.

Well—I figure if I put up the GDT a day early, we'll get a bonus day of unwarranted semi-hopefulness. And then the mass-dejection, but there's no avoiding that anyway, so **** it.

 

[rocky7]

A big concern of mine: J.Staal.

This guy needs to get going. Who knows, maybe Tlusty and J.Staal have great chemistry. Something needs to happen to get J.Staal producing.

producing how? Jordan Staal has never and will never be an offensive hockey player contrary to what he would like and how the organization promoted him. he has traditionally excelled at defense although lately he seems to have taken up the old 'stick swing, drive-by' style that would never have been acceptable in Pittsburgh (watch the vids of goals against. he is there). Muller now seems to have recognized and accepted that though, and is playing him accordingly. if their was anything traditional about this team, he would be centering a top notch checking/shutdown 3rd line instead of displaying his stone hands and blasting the puck into the goalie's chest. at present, he is a $6 million dollar man who is confused about what his roll actually is. yeah, hopefully he does "get going" in the way that he does best. that's not offense.

 

[Finnish Jerk Train]

I must have missed it. Agreed though, great movie

The Great Danton -> The Great Anton

Well, it won't be a problem as long as the thread doesn't get cluttered with posts that have nothing to do with the game.

I have no idea what you're referring to.

 

[What the Faulk]

The Great Danton -> The Great Anton

Ah must have missed that. Oddly enough, that was my user name last year on this board

 

[NotOpie]

you may be right but taking Jiri off that line this soon suggests that they can't answer to the opponents defense of them which is the wrong course of action IMO. this line has always been defensively responsible and yet still produce profusely. telling them to play more D proportionately affects their offensive contributions.

maybe it's a slow start. I think it's the new system that they are having trouble with. hard to do both well.

Couple of things...first I don't think that Staal and Semin have been playing badly per se. Their timing is off. Look at how they set their plays up, when the passes occur, how the passes are just a bit off. The issue on this line has been the confusion that is Jiri Tlusty. He seems to have forgotten what he did well last year: fight for pucks in the corners, get them to Staal and Semin, and then move in to scoring positions. He's also just not as tough on the puck (but he can be). I thought Staal had a couple of brain cramps last game and so did Semin, but it wasn't a lack of effort or an emotional let down IMHO. I think it all is timing. That will come.

Because of this, I think putting a solid guy like Ruutu (or perhaps even a Gerbe) on that line makes good sense. Also, I think moving Tlusty down to Jordan's line is a great idea. I think he's a bigger body than Dwyer, just about as defensively responsible, and once he gets his mojo back, won't get knocked off of the puck as easily as Patty does. A second line of Gerbe/JStaal/Tlusty is filled with 3 potentially solid scorers (not flashy but solid) and 3 very good defenders. If Tlusty gets back to what he did well last year, he'll get some rebound goals, push the puck to Gerbe for close in goals, and hopefully allow Jordan to cycle and crash for rebounds too. I like this line construction.

I hate the line of Skinner/Nash/Dwyer. The 3rd line currently excels because of the calm, erudite decision-making of Dvorak. He's the "big toe" that makes the 3rd line work. I don't like taking him off unless they've got a similar player to put on that line. Dwyer is a lot of heart, a lot of effort, and speed to burn but he's not really a great passer and his shot is only adequate. Defenses will collapse on Skinner and the combo of Dwyer/Nash isn't dynamic enough to be problematic for our opponents. I'd like to see that line left alone until Elias comes back. I'd even put Bowman on that line before Dwyer.

Meanwhile a 4th line of Bowman/Sutter/Dwyer is something that I like. Bowman and Sutter bring some grit and Patty Dwyer's got lots of speed and hockey sense. This line can cycle and be solid in their own zone. Bowman and Dwyer can get pucks out of our zone and press the action. Sutter can be a net presence. All in all a very solid 4th line.

Just my two cents and why I think we're close to getting the lines right.

 

[tomdundo]

Ah, well, here's my reasoning: as we all know, in any GDT on this board there is a watershed, so to say, in the game, after which there will be nothing but complaining and doomsaying. For instance, the Phoenix GDT really spiralled downward after the goal early on the third. So if you create the GDT, say, an hour before game-time, what you get is basically one hour and one period of tentative optimism, then three days of energetic mass-despondency.

Well—I figure if I put up the GDT a day early, we'll get a bonus day of unwarranted semi-hopefulness. And then the mass-dejection, but there's no avoiding that anyway, so **** it.

Fair enough.


But don't do it again!

 

[HisIceness]

Must win game #1,000,000

 

[Bongo]

If the Canes can shut down Hossa, Kane, Sharp, and Toews; then all they have to worry about is Saad, Shaw, Keith, and Bickell.

 

[golfpro827]

My childhood favorite team and favorite team until the Canes came vs. my current favorite team.

Always a tough game for me.

I'll wear my Toews jeresy and root for the Canes. Why not.

 

[rocky7]

If the Canes can shut down Hossa, Kane, Sharp, and Toews; then all they have to worry about is Saad, Shaw, Keith, and Bickell.

a real test for the 'new team defense/goals against' strategy with no offensive strategy. so, perhaps a loss by merely a few rather than a blow out. dump and chase all night coming up just to relieve pressure.

 

[spockBokk]

100% agree with the distaste of the 3rd line. Dvorak fits that line as it stands, Dwyer doesn't. The sooner Muller realizes that Dwyer is an excellent 4th liner that doesn't possess the offensive skills for a top 9 role, the sooner we can possibly think of having an excellent 4th line with the possible addition of Malhotra (Sutter or Bowman/Malhotra/Dwyer)...

 

[rocky7]

Couple of things...first I don't think that Staal and Semin have been playing badly per se. Their timing is off. Look at how they set their plays up, when the passes occur, how the passes are just a bit off. The issue on this line has been the confusion that is Jiri Tlusty. He seems to have forgotten what he did well last year: fight for pucks in the corners, get them to Staal and Semin, and then move in to scoring positions. He's also just not as tough on the puck (but he can be). I thought Staal had a couple of brain cramps last game and so did Semin, but it wasn't a lack of effort or an emotional let down IMHO. I think it all is timing. That will come.

Because of this, I think putting a solid guy like Ruutu (or perhaps even a Gerbe) on that line makes good sense. Also, I think moving Tlusty down to Jordan's line is a great idea. I think he's a bigger body than Dwyer, just about as defensively responsible, and once he gets his mojo back, won't get knocked off of the puck as easily as Patty does. A second line of Gerbe/JStaal/Tlusty is filled with 3 potentially solid scorers (not flashy but solid) and 3 very good defenders. If Tlusty gets back to what he did well last year, he'll get some rebound goals, push the puck to Gerbe for close in goals, and hopefully allow Jordan to cycle and crash for rebounds too. I like this line construction.

I hate the line of Skinner/Nash/Dwyer. The 3rd line currently excels because of the calm, erudite decision-making of Dvorak. He's the "big toe" that makes the 3rd line work. I don't like taking him off unless they've got a similar player to put on that line. Dwyer is a lot of heart, a lot of effort, and speed to burn but he's not really a great passer and his shot is only adequate. Defenses will collapse on Skinner and the combo of Dwyer/Nash isn't dynamic enough to be problematic for our opponents. I'd like to see that line left alone until Elias comes back. I'd even put Bowman on that line before Dwyer.

Meanwhile a 4th line of Bowman/Sutter/Dwyer is something that I like. Bowman and Sutter bring some grit and Patty Dwyer's got lots of speed and hockey sense. This line can cycle and be solid in their own zone. Bowman and Dwyer can get pucks out of our zone and press the action. Sutter can be a net presence. All in all a very solid 4th line.

Just my two cents and why I think we're close to getting the lines right.

yeah makes sense however, I find it hard to believe that Tlusty "forgot" his role or how to execute it. to me that line along with the team is playing Muller's new system. maybe they are not pushing so hard into the offensive zone in order to be able to get back to help in their end. I think that was why they were so successful, like you say, they pressured, hemmed in the D, and controlled possession. now they are tentative to go on the all out attack (it's in their minds to be ready to jump out instead of push in hard). just a thought. it's hard to do both and this line was scoring alot yet still fairly defensively responsible. the team needs that along with the secondary scoring. Muller's systems seems all or nothing (see special teams) (stubborn and passes the buck. hope that's just for interviews and believes that he has to learn and improve, something you don't see alot of but I respect) and unless they evolve and this is an early process won't work IMO. this team has plenty of talent to do well and I don't believe the players are slacking off, ever, unless playing injured (which they shouldn't be at this point).

agree on Semin and Staal but above applies to them too. agree about Dvorak as well. he's been great. when Ruutu comes back, Dwyer has no business in the top six.

shuffling lines in the early season is par for the course but multiple times in game suggests panic, not knowing how to counter, and the lack of back-up plans to me. Jiri to 4th, Bowman to first? just no. sending messages? don't agree with that in game at all. that's for practise and in private. have respect for guys and they'll do better. human nature I think.

I hope I'm wrong about Muller but am not at all impressed so far on many levels. lots of excuses were there. he's had his camp and time. no excuses left imo. it's easy to blame players but they do as the coach dictates and that's what we're seeing every game.

still early so we'll see how it goes.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

lots of excuses were there.

Agree with that. You've been giving nothing but excuses for the play of Semin and Staal and Tlusty.

 

[Ole Gil]

yeah makes sense however, I find it hard to believe that Tlusty "forgot" his role or how to execute it. to me that line along with the team is playing Muller's new system. maybe they are not pushing so hard into the offensive zone in order to be able to get back to help in their end. I think that was why they were so successful, like you say, they pressured, hemmed in the D, and controlled possession. now they are tentative to go on the all out attack (it's in their minds to be ready to jump out instead of push in hard). just a thought. it's hard to do both and this line was scoring alot yet still fairly defensively responsible. the team needs that along with the secondary scoring. Muller's systems seems all or nothing (see special teams) (stubborn and passes the buck. hope that's just for interviews and believes that he has to learn and improve, something you don't see alot of but I respect) and unless they evolve and this is an early process won't work IMO. this team has plenty of talent to do well and I don't believe the players are slacking off, ever, unless playing injured (which they shouldn't be at this point).

agree on Semin and Staal but above applies to them too. agree about Dvorak as well. he's been great. when Ruutu comes back, Dwyer has no business in the top six.

shuffling lines in the early season is par for the course but multiple times in game suggests panic, not knowing how to counter, and the lack of back-up plans to me. Jiri to 4th, Bowman to first? just no. sending messages? don't agree with that in game at all. that's for practise and in private. have respect for guys and they'll do better. human nature I think.

I hope I'm wrong about Muller but am not at all impressed so far on many levels. lots of excuses were there. he's had his camp and time. no excuses left imo. it's easy to blame players but they do as the coach dictates and that's what we're seeing every game.

still early so we'll see how it goes.

Wait, are you trying to say this is Muller's fault? Hmm...hadn't considered that. Weird it hasn't been said before.

 

[rocky7]

while the secondary scoring is great it hasn't been enough. unless the top line, including Tlusty, is given free reign to play their game like last year this team will not win. they have always been defensively responsible enough. their roll is to score not play defense. IMO they are slightly "off" because they aren't concentrating solely on offensive push. that comes from Muller preaching "team" defense not that these guys are playing poorly. they are giving er every shift. they are just playing a different style/system (where their adjustment/timing is showing problems). has to be a balance. if they produce this team does well. if they don't, they don't. that line can dominate if given the "order" to do so.

 

[EbonyRaptor]

If the Canes can shut down Hossa, Kane, Sharp, and Toews; then all they have to worry about is Saad, Shaw, Keith, and Bickell.

As I posted in the Buffalo GDT for the Buf/Chi game last Saturday - the offensive juggernaut known as the Blackhawks hasn't shown up yet this season - plus there has been some defensive lapses that either cost the Hawks a game or kept games close.

After scoring 6 goals in the opening game, they've scored only 9 over the past 4 games, and except for the game against the Blues, which was a pretty even contest, the Hawks have had long stretches of dominant play but just can't put the puck in the net.

Hossa has only 1 goal, but it was an empty net goal, Sharp, Bickell, Shaw and Keith haven't scored a goal yet.

Defensively, they gave up 3 power play goals against Washington. They let Tampa Bay score two goals to tie it up in the 3rd period after dominating the first two periods, and then went on to lose in the game in a shootout. They gave up the winning goal against the Blues in the last 21 seconds of the third. The gave up 2 goals in the last minute of the first period to the Islanders and ended up hanging on for a 3-2 win. They couldn't protect a 2-0 third period lead against Buffalo and gave up a goal late in the third to make that a nail biter before eeking out a 2-1 win.

I don't know what's going on, but it's a good time to catch the Hawks because they are far from firing on all cylinders.

 

[rocky7]

Wait, are you trying to say this is Muller's fault? Hmm...hadn't considered that. Weird it hasn't been said before.

no not saying that at all wally. Muller has absolutely nothing to do with how this team plays because as I've heard, they are all un-coachable and do whatever they want out there. they totally refuse to play his systems.

Edit: if Semin and Staal were allowed to do so they'd likely do better than they are right now at ES and on the historic PP.