Proposal: Chicago-Arizona

[thedoughboy]

Actually if you watched him last year in Rockford and then so far in international play he has show he can play on the NHL level. He just turned 22 this summer.

Nhl level sure, top 4 maybe maybe not.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

He is blocked but he is more blocked by Keith, Hammer, Seabrook, Campbell, and MK than he is by Bowman.

I personally think we need to move a D and if we did I would move TVR (actually Seabrook after this year but that is a pipe dream).

TVR is the 7th best D man on our roster, which is a great problem to have. 1. Keith 2. Hammer 3./4. Campbell/Seabrook 5. MK (could end up being 3) 6. Pokka 7. TVR. This is the deepest D the Hawks have ever had. TVR is due for a new deal after the 17/18 season so that helps with his market value.



Technically speaking we don't have to expose Pokka if we go with the alternative to protecting 7 forwards, 3 D, and 1 goalie, which is what I would do.

TVR is a proven young #5 at this point ,, In no way is Pokka currently better then him

First Pokka will have to play against NHL talent ,, Stan Bowman doesn't seem to have any interest in seeing such an event

Also Pokka and Kempny are both unproven at this point and neither is better then proven TVR at this point

 

[BK]

TVR is a proven young #5 at this point ,, In no way is Pokka currently better then him

First Pokka will have to play against NHL talent ,, Stan Bowman doesn't seem to have any interest in seeing such an event

Also Pokka and Kempny are both unproven at this point and neither is better then proven TVR at this point

Not surprising but if you have watched any of the international play this year you would see that Pokka is better than TVR close to all aspects of the game.

TVR is a legit #5 but he should be #7 on the Hawks.

 

[BK]

Pokka is better than TVR close to all aspects of the game..

This was not the case at the start of last year.

 

[thedoughboy]

Not surprising but if you have watched any of the international play this year you would see that Pokka is better than TVR close to all aspects of the game.

TVR is a legit #5 but he should be #7 on the Hawks.

what? on what basis? he was an admirable step in as a #4 on his off side in his first full year of NHL. Kid may not have a ceiling like pokka is supposed to but he absolutely should be on the roster.

This was not the case at the start of last year.

It was the case through the entirety of last year when pokka got absolutely no time in the NHL, and it's not because "Q,bowman, whomever" hates him. The reason he wasn't brought up was because he wasn't ready and needed more time in the AHL. Seriously, the guy had plenty of opportunities with the Daley fiasco, when keith got injured and when he was suspended when hjammer was put on the left side for a spell. Hell, they thought to give Gustafsson and Svedberg a shot because they were the better options last year.

I don't hate pokka, hes a good prospect and hell he could end up playing this year that'd be awesome. But saying he is a top4 dman or saying he should have been on the roster last year is just some sorta fallacy man

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Not surprising but if you have watched any of the international play this year you would see that Pokka is better than TVR close to all aspects of the game.

TVR is a legit #5 but he should be #7 on the Hawks.

That is just not reality. Unless someone makes a BIG leap this year (Forsling/Pokka), then TVR is at worst the #6 if you assume Kempny is as good as advertised and has looked pretty good in exhibition in the world cup

Depth chart probably goes like this at the moment

Keith
Seabrook
Hjalmarsson
Campbell
Kempny
TVR
Rozsival (by Qs choice, not by who is probably better at this point)
Gustafsson (due to exposure last year and more familiarity with Q)
Svedberg (for some reason Q likes him but I think he is a useless mutant)
Pokka
Forsling

 

[BK]

That is just not reality. Unless someone makes a BIG leap this year (Forsling/Pokka), then TVR is at worst the #6 if you assume Kempny is as good as advertised and has looked pretty good in exhibition in the world cup

Depth chart probably goes like this at the moment

Keith
Seabrook
Hjalmarsson
Campbell
Kempny
TVR
Rozsival (by Qs choice, not by who is probably better at this point)
Gustafsson (due to exposure last year and more familiarity with Q)
Svedberg (for some reason Q likes him but I think he is a useless mutant)
Pokka
Forsling

Incorrect. The fact that you put Pokka behind Svedberg shows you have no idea what you are talking about. Pokka is a better player that TVR, Rosi, Gus, and Svedberg.

 

[TheGreat]

That's what happens when you have good players that win.

Exactley every team in league would love to have problem

 

[clydesdale line]

Incorrect. The fact that you put Pokka behind Svedberg shows you have no idea what you are talking about. Pokka is a better player that TVR, Rosi, Gus, and Svedberg.

Did you not read his post? It's obvious to anyone that knows how Q operates that he prefers guys who have NHL experience higher on the depth chart (other than injuries or can't miss). I hope Svedberg is not even close to dressing for us but I know it unrealistic. The fact of the matter is, Pokka has held his own in exhibition games, but he isn't exactly playing top pairing minutes (i.e. Kempny) on his team. Does he have the potential? Yes, but barring him completely blowing the Hawks brass away, he'll be in Rockford and probably won't get called up until TVR, Roszival, Gustafsson and Svedberg get injured (unless like I said, he impresses alot in Rockford. Not too many players pull a Leddy though).

 

[BK]

Did you not read his post? It's obvious to anyone that knows how Q operates that he prefers guys who have NHL experience higher on the depth chart (other than injuries or can't miss). I hope Svedberg is not even close to dressing for us but I know it unrealistic. The fact of the matter is, Pokka has held his own in exhibition games, but he isn't exactly playing top pairing minutes (i.e. Kempny) on his team. Does he have the potential? Yes, but barring him completely blowing the Hawks brass away, he'll be in Rockford and probably won't get called up until TVR, Roszival, Gustafsson and Svedberg get injured (unless like I said, he impresses alot in Rockford. Not too many players pull a Leddy though).

It is obvious but you are really putting Svedberg ahead of Pokka after we was behind Rundblad last year in the playoffs? Ok...

Pokka has a complete game that Q looks for. He is a good point man on the point with a hard and accurate shot. Defensively he is sound positionally, makes a good first pass (he is not one to skate it up the ice over making a good first pass), and he is overall responsible.

He was not ready at the start of last year but a full year in Rockford and high end international competition has him ready for the NHL. You are right that he is not playing top pairing minutes for Finland but in the 11-13 minutes he is getting is has been good.

Like I have said before, I like TVR as a player BUT at the end of the day you want the best pairings possible out there at the end of the season. I would love for the Hawks to run 2-7, 4-MK, 51-Pokka and run them 22, 22, and 16 minutes a night. I would trade TVR to a team that needs d and has a plethora of forwards who are young such as Toronto.

Pokka is a wasted asset in Rockford and not having him playing most nights in Chicago hurts the team long term. I have said it multiple times that I would go the route in the expansion draft which is the alternative to protecting 7 forwards, 3 D, and 1 goalie.

Leddy was a rare situation because of the cap and his ability to skate.

 

[thedoughboy]

Incorrect. The fact that you put Pokka behind Svedberg shows you have no idea what you are talking about. Pokka is a better player that TVR, Rosi, Gus, and Svedberg.

In your eyes maybe, but he absolutely didn't prove it last year as all four of those guys got actual playing time on a team that was begging for a defender to take a top 4 spot.

The starting line up will probably end up being something like:

Keith-Seabrook
Campbell-Hjammer
Kempny-Rosy/TVR on rotation

Again you haven't addressed that Pokka is projected as a top 4 dman and not playing like one. Assuming he can just slot in is not a good idea.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Incorrect. The fact that you put Pokka behind Svedberg shows you have no idea what you are talking about. Pokka is a better player that TVR, Rosi, Gus, and Svedberg.

Jesus Christ, did you read the post? I put that that Svedberg is probably ahead of Pokka not because he is better because Q has favored using him and calling him up ahead of Pokka and has publicly stated he likes his game and size

 

[BK]

Jesus Christ, did you read the post? I put that that Svedberg is probably ahead of Pokka not because he is better because Q has favored using him and calling him up ahead of Pokka and has publicly stated he likes his game and size

Did you not read my post? I explained why I am questioning that.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Did you not read his post? It's obvious to anyone that knows how Q operates that he prefers guys who have NHL experience higher on the depth chart (other than injuries or can't miss). I hope Svedberg is not even close to dressing for us but I know it unrealistic. The fact of the matter is, Pokka has held his own in exhibition games, but he isn't exactly playing top pairing minutes (i.e. Kempny) on his team. Does he have the potential? Yes, but barring him completely blowing the Hawks brass away, he'll be in Rockford and probably won't get called up until TVR, Roszival, Gustafsson and Svedberg get injured (unless like I said, he impresses alot in Rockford. Not too many players pull a Leddy though).

Pretty much word for word my above put, but its just because we see the reality of the preferences of Q as well as the likely depth chart moving forward.

Pokka or Forsling are going to need to have an all start training camp to leapfrom 3-4 guys who were, as of this past season/summer, ahead of them in the organization. Even then, with the cap, Pokka and Forsling make more than either Gustafsson or Svedberg on the NHL level so they might need to be SO good there is no choice but to put them on the NHL roster right away. I dont see that happening next month. If Forlsing goes back to Europe I believe he contract slides a year. If they are fighting for a 7th dman spot, Im sure Bowman would rather have Pokka and his $925k cap hit in the AHL playing top pair minutes instead of not playing most of the time in the NHL and instead give the 7 spot to someone like Svedberg or Gustafsson who Q clearly prefers at this point, they are cheaper on the cap up here (both would save between $175k to $200k vs Pokka) on a spot that will see little playing time and Bowman might want to save as much on the cap as possible throughout the season for the trade deadline

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Did you not read my post? I explained why I am questioning that.

Again, you completely miss the point

They are ahead of Pokka on the depth chart because of QUENNEVILLE

Both Gustafsson and Svedberg played multiple games for Q in the playoffs last year. Explain to us how in Qs eyes Pokka is ahead of them on the depth chart now when he has never played an NHL game?

 

[BK]

In your eyes maybe, but he absolutely didn't prove it last year as all four of those guys got actual playing time on a team that was begging for a defender to take a top 4 spot.

The starting line up will probably end up being something like:

Keith-Seabrook
Campbell-Hjammer
Kempny-Rosy/TVR on rotation

Again you haven't addressed that Pokka is projected as a top 4 dman and not playing like one. Assuming he can just slot in is not a good idea.

Like I have said twice, Pokka was not ready at the start of last year. He is ready now. He showed last year he can handle top 4 minutes in Rockford along with each thing I mentioned about.

Unless you can't read, I have already stated why he is projected to be a top 4 D (3-4 not 1-2). "Pokka has a complete game that Q looks for. He is a good point man on the point with a hard and accurate shot. Defensively he is sound positionally, makes a good first pass (he is not one to skate it up the ice over making a good first pass), and he is overall responsible." He is good offensively and sound defensively at a top 4 ability level. He made huge strides in his second year in the AHL.

Slot him into the top 4? I put him in the 3rd pairing playing playing 14-16 minutes a night. Actually go back and read.

 

[BK]

Again, you completely miss the point

They are ahead of Pokka on the depth chart because of QUENNEVILLE

Both Gustafsson and Svedberg played multiple games for Q in the playoffs last year. Explain to us how in Qs eyes Pokka is ahead of them on the depth chart now when he has never played an NHL game?

Q completely trashed Gus after game 7 and Svedberg ended the season behind David Rundblad. That is how.

Remember Q's dog house rarely has an exit door.

 

[BK]

Pretty much word for word my above put, but its just because we see the reality of the preferences of Q as well as the likely depth chart moving forward.

Pokka or Forsling are going to need to have an all start training camp to leapfrom 3-4 guys who were, as of this past season/summer, ahead of them in the organization. Even then, with the cap, Pokka and Forsling make more than either Gustafsson or Svedberg on the NHL level so they might need to be SO good there is no choice but to put them on the NHL roster right away. I dont see that happening next month. If Forlsing goes back to Europe I believe he contract slides a year. If they are fighting for a 7th dman spot, Im sure Bowman would rather have Pokka and his $925k cap hit in the AHL playing top pair minutes instead of not playing most of the time in the NHL and instead give the 7 spot to someone like Svedberg or Gustafsson who Q clearly prefers at this point, they are cheaper on the cap up here (both would save between $175k to $200k vs Pokka) on a spot that will see little playing time and Bowman might want to save as much on the cap as possible throughout the season for the trade deadline

Pokka already has 2 years of top 4 pairing experience in the AHL. It is time to make the jump.

Svedberg is actively terrible other than him having length. He is weak on the puck and leaves the zone far to early on offense.

Gus needs to work on his D.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Q completely trashed Gus after game 7 and Svedberg ended the season behind David Rundblad. That is how.

Remember Q's dog house rarely has an exit door.

So Pokka just jumped ahead of 4 guys by default because the Hawks lost a 7 game playoff round vs the Blues?

Pokka, with zero NHL resume all of a sudden has jumped ahead of Svedberg, Rozsival, Gustaffson, and TVR?

Just complete fantasy

 

[BK]

So Pokka just jumped ahead of 4 guys by default because the Hawks lost a 7 game playoff round vs the Blues?

Pokka, with zero NHL resume all of a sudden has jumped ahead of Svedberg, Rozsival, Gustaffson, and TVR?

Just complete fantasy

He jump two of them for the reasons give already along with just being much better at hockey.

Rosi is a 7th dman at best, a vet that plays 10-15 games total.

I said in my post in this situation TVR would be moved. If he is not then Pokka competes with him for the #6 spot.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

He jump two of them for the reasons give already along with just being much better at hockey.

Rosi is a 7th dman at best, a vet that plays 10-15 games total.

I said in my post in this situation TVR would be moved. If he is not then Pokka competes with him for the #6 spot.

Except only in your mind Q has readily just let Pokka jump Gus and Svedberg, we have seen zero indication of that

And your logic is flaw because Rundblad was in the Q doghouse during most of the 2015 cup run and he still played him after being in Europe all season vs St Louis

So shouldnt have Q been done with Rundblad forever too?

 

[BK]

Except only in your mind Q has readily just let Pokka jump Gus and Svedberg, we have seen zero indication of that

And your logic is flaw because Rundblad was in the Q doghouse during most of the 2015 cup run and he still played him after being in Europe all season vs St Louis

So shouldnt have Q been done with Rundblad forever too?

He would have been if Svedberg or Gus were not terrible at the end of the season.

Q absolutely trashed both at the end of the season. That is not a good sign with Q and young players.

If you think Rundblad was out of the dog house you are hilarious.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

He would have been if Svedberg or Gus were not terrible at the end of the season.

Q absolutely trashed both at the end of the season. That is not a good sign with Q and young players.

If you think Rundblad was out of the dog house you are hilarious.

I swear you dont read things correctly at all

I clearly stated that Rundblad was in the dog house, yet Q still wound up using him after the fact. If you pick up the correlation, I am saying the same thing can and will happen to one of Svedberg or Gustafsson, if not both

I would also love to hear the "absolutely trashed both at the end of the season". The extent Q trashes players is says they were "OK" or needed more from them or more pace to their game or something. Not stuff I would call absolutely trashing player. In Q speak we know what it means, but again, nothing any different than what he used to say about Runblad and still gave him another chance. The same thing he will do with Gustafsson and/or Svedberg

 

[BK]

I swear you dont read things correctly at all

I clearly stated that Rundblad was in the dog house, yet Q still wound up using him after the fact. If you pick up the correlation, I am saying the same thing can and will happen to one of Svedberg or Gustafsson, if not both

I would also love to hear the "absolutely trashed both at the end of the season". The extent Q trashes players is says they were "OK" or needed more from them or more pace to their game or something. Not stuff I would call absolutely trashing player. In Q speak we know what it means, but again, nothing any different than what he used to say about Runblad and still gave him another chance. The same thing he will do with Gustafsson and/or Svedberg

It is not my lack of reading what you wrote it is you inability to understand what I am saying.

Rundblad only played because Gus and Sved were so bad that Q had no choice. Q said more than they were just ok at the end of the season. The fact that he did this shows how bad he thought they played and it is a bad sign for both going forward.

Both Svedberg and Gus were not as good as Pokka when they were sent down to Rockford. Offensively and defensively.

This is not a hard concept to understand but top prospects routinely jump lesser players on a regular basis when teams feel the prospect is ready. That time is now for Pokka.

 

[Kaibur]

I wouldn't mind adding Pokka to the mix, but he doesn't currently have the trade value of Rieder. And with 10 D-men with NHL experience on the roster, and DeAngelo where he's at in his development, I'm not sure where Pokka would fit. He doesn't have a single game of NHL experience and that would put him in a tough spot of competing with 11 other guys for game and ice time.

Maybe Rieder + Mayo for Pokka + McNeil?