Confirmed with Link: [CHI/VAN] Gustav Forsling traded for Adam Clendening

[Verviticus]

Stewart Petit are 6-7 thrash picks w/e he didn't find a diamond in the rough there. Tryamkin is actually trending up and developing quite nicely he doesn't need to put up big points he is a stay at home defenseman. I expect his point totals to go up once he gets to North American ice where his size becomes a real advantage for him.

It's not uncommon for a young KHL defenseman to put up little points in the KHL

hasnt his ice time decreased? at any rate i dont think theres any evidence that his play has trended up. stagnant is at best what we know about him, i think

 

[WTG]

Is he? There's little to no info coming from the KHL regarding his play. Didn't he get sent down to the junior leagues earlier this season?

ZK does updates on the thread. Says he isn't a liability when he is on the ice. He did get sent down to the lower leagues but that is for a break before Christmas I believe. Tryamkin never missed a game while playing in the junior league.

Of course I am speculation when I say he is trending upwards. I'll have to reserve judgement for when he is in training camp next season.

 

[Aphid Attraction]

What ever.... difference of opinion

 

[WTG]

hasnt his ice time decreased? at any rate i dont think theres any evidence that his play has trended up. stagnant is at best what we know about him, i think

His icetime has decreased because apparently his team has acquired a top 4 defenseman that puts him down in the depth chart. Nothing towards him and it's only a small decrease

Here found it from ZK himself.
Generally, when Avtomobilist got Gagarin Cup winner Filip Metlyuk last summer, i think that Trjamkins ice-time could dropped in this season. Metlyuk was only depth defenseman in their strong team Magnitogorsk, but he is veteran and in KHL they put huge value when you can play safe game. Metlyuk ice-time avarage is 16:41.

Wouldn't worry about it

 

[Lindgren]

I've seen Forsling play, I'm not basing my evaluation of him on Benning's. Not to mention the Forsling pick was most likely based on Gradin's evaluation, not Benning's.

Just because Benning drafted him doesn't mean I can't not want to trade the player. If we traded Virtanen for Clendenning do you also think I'd have no right to be annoyed?



You mean his body of work since coming to Vancouver? Yeah, when I think that around 90% of his moves have been somewhere between meh and awful, it makes a lot more sense to assume Benning is being taken yet again rather than thinking that this time he's the one who pulled one over Bowman.

You say you're evaluating based on your viewing of Forsling (though you don't say much about your viewing of Clendening), but then you go back to the assumption that the trade is bad because Benning made it. You can be annoyed about anything you like, but you're simply not making sense.

 

[Pip]

His icetime has decreased because apparently his team has acquired a top 4 defenseman that puts him down in the depth chart. Nothing towards him and it's only a small decrease

Then you can't really say that he has been developing really well and improving. You could make an argument that he's stagnated due to being pushed down a deep blue line I guess but there's really not enough information to really say anything definitively about Tryamkin this season.

 

[WTG]

Then you can't really say that he has been developing really well and improving.

You are correct. I shouldn't have. Oh well.

I will try to catch a game of his eventually and give you guys some updates on how his play looks. How about that?

 

[Pip]

You are correct. I shouldn't have. Oh well.

I will try to catch a game of his eventually and give you guys some updates on how his play looks. How about that?

I would welcome it. It's frustrating how little we hear about our overseas prospects.

 

[Zarpan]

its not a matter of opinion at all. the following is an opinion: "i trust benning's drafting". thats fine. what im saying is his points are not inherently contradicted by his opinion on drafting. i can hold that

A: i dont think benning is a good enough judge of young talent and
B: i think forsling too high a price to pay

without any problems

That's true... However, in this particular case one would have to give Benning points for drafting Forsling.

If one considers Forsling to be too high a price to pay for Clendening, he'd certainly have to be considered a steal for a 5th round pick.

Clendening was considered Chicago's 3rd or 4th best prospect going into this season, and even if you dock him for having a poor half-season so far plus the limited time remaining on his waiver-exempt status, he'd still have a 3rd round value at worst.

So over half a year, Forsling has gone from a 5th round pick to having 3rd round value or better. That's certainly worth drafting judgement points.

 

[Vankiller Whale]

You say you're evaluating based on your viewing of Forsling (though you don't say much about your viewing of Clendening), but then you go back to the assumption that the trade is bad because Benning made it. You can be annoyed about anything you like, but you're simply not making sense.

I don't think the trade is bad because Benning made it, I think it was a bad idea to trade Forsling and I don't have faith that Clendening is a hidden gem.

In general AHL players close to waiver eligiblity tend to end up on waivers, not be qualified, or maybe traded for a late round pick.

Forsling may have been a late round pick himself, but he has absolute trended up to the point where he should have been seen as someone to hold on to.

I could maybe have understood using a 4th or 5th round pick (although knowing Benning it would likely have been a 3rd had we not used it on Pedan) but I don't like that Forsling was seen as expendable enough to get traded for a player Chicago wasn't going to keep beyond this season anyways.

 

[Uhmkay]

You are correct. I shouldn't have. Oh well.

I will try to catch a game of his eventually and give you guys some updates on how his play looks. How about that?

The last few games his ice time has been back up around 14 minutes a game. Pretty good for a kid who is in a league that is well known for not playing their rookie dmen.

 

[Vankiller Whale]

The last few games his ice time has been back up around 14 minutes a game. Pretty good for a kid who is in a league that is well known for not playing their rookie dmen.

Tryamkin's in his third year, not exactly a rookie anymore.

 

[Uhmkay]

Tryamkin's in his third year, not exactly a rookie anymore.

And as ZK has posted on a few occasions, the KHL is notorious for not playing younger players, specifically meaning Tryamkin. He's still a 'kid'. ZK has said that KHL teams will almost always play the old vets instead of giving ice time to young players. Particularly those who have already expressed an interest to leave and go play in another league.

You won't point that out though of course... why let facts get in the way of your uninformed opinion?

This is why we need to get the kid over here so we can develop him.

Anyways, this is the Forsling thread. I honestly think too much has been made out of the deal. It is what it is.... Chicago had no choice but to trade a guy before they lost him for nothing because they were too deep with their roster. It gives them a reset with a young player to keep their prospect pool going and the Canucks get a guy who is probably at a higher skill set than Forsling would have been in a few years anyways.

Both teams benefit. Chicago needs to hope Forsling develops to be able to produce in the AHL as much as Clendening already has just to break even.

 

[Vankiller Whale]

And as ZK has posted on a few occasions, the KHL is notorious for not playing younger players, specifically meaning Tryamkin. He's still a 'kid'. ZK has said that KHL teams will almost always play the old vets instead of giving ice time to young players. Particularly those who have already expressed an interest to leave and go play in another league.

You won't point that out though of course... why let facts get in the way of your uninformed opinion?

This is why we need to get the kid over here so we can develop him.

Jeez, all I said is that he isn't a rookie. Yeah he may not be in the best situation, but let's not pretend that him not improving from last year is somehow a good thing.

 

[CanaFan]

you might think it a bit ironic but it doesn't undermine or counter his argument in any way

What was his argument again? That Benning's nearly 8-month track record here is enough to know in advance that we lost this trade?

Ya, that argument doesn't really need me or anyone else with an ounce of sense to counter it ...

 

[StIllmatic]

Are you me?

Me and my roommates are in the same boat

 

[drax0s]

When you have to go back a decade to find decent results...

Oh. Ok, got it. You're sticking with your narrative that "Benning is an idiot" and dismissing any other evidence because aren't willing to entertain the possibility that you might be judging him a bit too soon.

That clarity makes things easier.

 

[Lindgren]

I don't think the trade is bad because Benning made it, I think it was a bad idea to trade Forsling and I don't have faith that Clendening is a hidden gem.

In general AHL players close to waiver eligiblity tend to end up on waivers, not be qualified, or maybe traded for a late round pick.

Forsling may have been a late round pick himself, but he has absolute trended up to the point where he should have been seen as someone to hold on to.

I could maybe have understood using a 4th or 5th round pick (although knowing Benning it would likely have been a 3rd had we not used it on Pedan) but I don't like that Forsling was seen as expendable enough to get traded for a player Chicago wasn't going to keep beyond this season anyways.

Well, this time you're making sense (your earlier arguments do suggest what you claim here not to be saying, but now you've clarified, so we can move on). Forsling has "trended up," undoubtedly. It also seems clear that the Hawks have a log jam with their prospects on the back end. I'm not convinced that Forsling has obviously improved his value so much that it's a mistake to trade him for a player of Clendening's status. It may be that the Canucks have taken advantage of the Hawks' difficulty, giving away very little for the player because the Hawks knew it was either that or wait a few months and get nothing at all in return. But then, I usually don't think the winners and losers in trades are immediately obvious, while lots who post here do.

 

[Verviticus]

That's true... However, in this particular case one would have to give Benning points for drafting Forsling.

If one considers Forsling to be too high a price to pay for Clendening, he'd certainly have to be considered a steal for a 5th round pick.

Clendening was considered Chicago's 3rd or 4th best prospect going into this season, and even if you dock him for having a poor half-season so far plus the limited time remaining on his waiver-exempt status, he'd still have a 3rd round value at worst.

So over half a year, Forsling has gone from a 5th round pick to having 3rd round value or better. That's certainly worth drafting judgement points.

oh definitely. i was super duper on board with the pick the second it was made. i think i said "well im ****ing mad about the tryamkin pick but at least this shows he has the right idea for later round picks" (OOPS LOL)

Are you me?

you guys should be ashamed... (friends, barf)

 

[The Rainman]

It was a trade Benning had to make. He needed a right handed Dman and couldn't wait another 4 years for Forsling. You saw him play a few games at the WJ"s and the way you're talking you'd think they let Bobby Orr slip through their hands. There is nothing to say that he won't be another Cam Barker. Remember him at the WJ's? He was also a 3rd over all pick in the draft. So back up a bit about two players that you know very little about!

 

[Wilch]

It was a trade Benning had to make. He needed a right handed Dman and couldn't wait another 4 years for Forsling. You saw him play a few games at the WJ"s and the way you're talking you'd think they let Bobby Orr slip through their hands. There is nothing to say that he won't be another Cam Barker. Remember him at the WJ's? He was also a 3rd over all pick in the draft. So back up a bit about two players that you know very little about!

So there's nothing to be discussed here.

Let's close this thread and bump it in 3 years.

 

[me2]

It is not silly here... In fact in is the only thing that matters...

That is ridiculous, you can't a person's ability to draft on one draft. Gillis probably would have drafted Virtanen and McCann given that he wanted a PF and McCann was not a Russian, that would make Gillis an AMAZING drafter by your logic. 1 year of hits or 1 year of misses does not a good drafter maker. We might just have witnessed Benning's peak as a drafter and it all **** from here, or maybe it gets better every year.

 

[Pip]

So over half a year, Forsling has gone from a 5th round pick to having 3rd round value or better. That's certainly worth drafting judgement points.

I would HOPE that Benning has noticed that Forsling has increased his value dramatically since being drafted, and therefore it makes sense to draft more with the philosophy used when they (Gradin?) took Forsling.

I guess we'll see if that holds up in the next draft.

 

[StIllmatic]

oh definitely. i was super duper on board with the pick the second it was made. i think i said "well im ****ing mad about the tryamkin pick but at least this shows he has the right idea for later round picks" (OOPS LOL)



you guys should be ashamed... (friends, barf)

I remember it being a lot funnier when I was little, but that's most things. Maybe it was just my infatuation with Jennifer Anniston.

 

[CanaFan]

That is ridiculous, you can't a person's ability to draft on one draft. Gillis probably would have drafted Virtanen and McCann given that he wanted a PF and McCann was not a Russian, that would make Gillis an AMAZING drafter by your logic. 1 year of hits or 1 year of misses does not a good drafter maker. We might just have witnessed Benning's peak as a drafter and it all **** from here, or maybe it gets better every year.

Except Gillis had a longer drafting track record as the GM that has to be included in that assessment whereas Benning does not thus 2014 is all we can go on. Unlike in his time with Boston (AGM) or Buffalo (Director of Amateur Scouting), Benning now has complete final say (and thus responsibility) in selecting players in the draft. While previously he had input (perhaps even a large degree), he never had autonomy or final say in selections. Gillis had such autonomy in his time here and Benning should be evaluated in the same vein only (2014 -> ).