Proposal: Chi - Tor

[Canada4Gold]

Pokka and McNeill for Leipsic and Leivo thank you.

please and thank you

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

please and thank you

Thats a whole lotta "meh" going both ways

Whenever thats the case, the safe play is to decline unless some guys are toxic and have just played their way out of an organization (e.g. Morin for Panik, morin more on the toxic side than panik as he was really pouting over the years of being in Rockford instead of Chicago)

 

[Canada4Gold]

Thats a whole lotta "meh" going both ways

Whenever thats the case, the safe play is to decline unless some guys are toxic and have just played their way out of an organization (e.g. Morin for Panik, morin more on the toxic side than panik as he was really pouting over the years of being in Rockford instead of Chicago)

I still think Leipsic and Pokka have some solid value. Nothing special but value. Leivo not much but I think he could do well in Chicago. I'd do it just for Pokka, but if not I'm expecting Leipsic to find his way to the Leafs fairly soon.

 

[snowkiddin]

Seabrook is worth way more than JVR. Seabrook's contract, not so much. I don't think either side does it. JVR isn't a good enough return for Chicago to trade Seabrook and leave a big hole in their D, and Seabrook's contract is too big for Toronto to take on. Realistically, JVR is only getting traded for picks and/or prospects.

 

[Not My Tempo]

If the Leafs wanted an overpaid #3 d-man they would have just stuck with Dion

 

[Kamiccolo]

please and thank you

You know Leipsic is in his 2nd AHL year and leading the AHL in points?

 

[sheed36]

If the Leafs wanted an overpaid #3 d-man they would have just stuck with Dion

Difference being Seabrook would be a great mentor for the young Leaf players. The guy is a winner and knows what it takes to win whereas Dion not so much.

I agree though that Seabrook contract is likely a non starter for most teams.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Difference being Seabrook would be a great mentor for the young Leaf players. The guy is a winner and knows what it takes to win whereas Dion not so much.

I agree though that Seabrook contract is likely a non starter for most teams.

Haha, does it take being on a stacked team?

Not knocking Seabrook but he's been in a situation where he can win where Phaneuf hasn't. Phaneuf looks like a goat being the captain of a bad leafs team and being asked too much of

I don't buy the idea that adding the "right" vets will make the kids better, unless those vets are legitimately of the caliber of player that has a measurable positive impact on the players around them. Seabrook used to do that, but it appears that he's now a Corsi drag on his linemates.

There's a chance he can right that ship, but I don't think he's a guy that you wan to take a big gamble on intangibles with

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

You know Leipsic is in his 2nd AHL year and leading the AHL in points?

Brandon Pirri led the AHL in scoring once upon a time too and is now on his 4th team in the last two years

 

[Liferleafer]

I would be willing to trade JVR for a number of Dmen....Seabrook is not one of them.

 

[Morgs]

You know Leipsic is in his 2nd AHL year and leading the AHL in points?

3rd.

 

[gabeliscious]

Brandon Pirri led the AHL in scoring once upon a time too and is now on his 4th team in the last two years

so performance outside the nhl is irrelevant?

leipsic is still doing well and will likely be an nhl player.

 

[Canada4Gold]

You know Leipsic is in his 2nd AHL year and leading the AHL in points?

3rd and not waiver exempt anymore after this year. You know Leivo was basically PPG last year in a similar situation and we can't find a spot for him now?

Pokka is in a similar situation on the back end, except he's a righty and not a winger which means we have far more room for him, and he'd be more likely to make an impact here.

I like Leipsic and I think he's the next callup. But I like Pokka, and with 5 other young wingers following quickly behind Leipsic on the Marlies, and 4 or 5 already at the NHL level you can't keep them all

 

[Leafidelity]

An actual interesting trade idea that hasn't been rehashed a billion times. Kudos OP.

 

[Christ]

That Seabrook contract is brutal... but it would be good in the short-term I guess.

With the roster that the Leafs have, short term fixes should not even be a consideration...

 

[MacerV]

Pokka and McNeill for Leipsic and Leivo thank you.

From the leafs point oa view a trade like this is exactly what they've been looking for. Maybe not this specific trade, but trading for a guy like Pokka who's got middle pairing RHD potential is what Toronto needs to do.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

They Leafs are not 1 Brent Seabrook away from competing. TBH all the defensive help in the world won't help if the forwards don't chip in and start playing a more defensively responsible game.

Exactly why the Leafs shouldn't be the team that trades for him.

The Bruins, Stars, Flyers all have a need for a top pairing Dman and who have their core pieces built to compete now are the type of teams that should be going for Seabrook.

Leafs window to contend won't open for another 2 or 3 years with or without Seabrook.

 

[Halla]

Seabrook is 31 and has 7 years on a near 7M contract. Can't see the leafs going anywhere near that. If he declines in a few years (as most mid 30's players do) that contract is gonna be an anchor

 

[Halla]

Brandon Pirri led the AHL in scoring once upon a time too and is now on his 4th team in the last two years

poor comparison, one guy is a 2nd-3rd line tweener who has a good shot but doesnt do much else (ie not suited for a bottom 6 role), the other guy is likely to be a 2nd-3rd line agitator (Gallagher/Marchand lite) and is a perfect fit on the bottom 6.

in regards to the pokka for leipsic swap i think the leafs pass, mainly because of the expansion draft. If we keep Pokka, we lose Carrick. leafs probably prefer to lose Marincin/Holland/Leivo, and Pokka isnt worth losing Carrick and Leipsic

 

[Mitchy]

Absolutely awful for the Leafs. No thanks.

 

[mikeyp24]

I don't buy the idea that adding the "right" vets will make the kids better, unless those vets are legitimately of the caliber of player that has a measurable positive impact on the players around them. Seabrook used to do that, but it appears that he's now a Corsi drag on his linemates.

Scott Hartnell is a perfect example of vets making kids better. Basically every young player the past 3 years we have put with Hartsy they have all progressed so fast and the ones that struggled before being on his line greatly improved. Hell playing with Scotty is what made Dano look so good. I believe Seabrook l would be a great influence on Rielly and I'm sure Babcock would love to have him. Corsi is such a rediculous way to judge players. Advanced stats have ruined the way people value players. Some great players will always look bad on a stat sheet regardless of what they do but the play on the ice tells you different.

Also to use Hartnell as a comparison again everyone has said Columbus is going to be anchored to him for years and when offered in trades we are told to keep or aging dump but he has yet to play below 1st line production. Seabrook at his bottom is still going to be a great 2nd pair D.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Scott Hartnell is a perfect example of vets making kids better. Basically every young player the past 3 years we have put with Hartsy they have all progressed so fast and the ones that struggled before being on his line greatly improved. Hell playing with Scotty is what made Dano look so good. I believe Seabrook l would be a great influence on Rielly and I'm sure Babcock would love to have him. Corsi is such a rediculous way to judge players. Advanced stats have ruined the way people value players. Some great players will always look bad on a stat sheet regardless of what they do but the play on the ice tells you different.

Also to use Hartnell as a comparison again everyone has said Columbus is going to be anchored to him for years and when offered in trades we are told to keep or aging dump but he has yet to play below 1st line production. Seabrook at his bottom is still going to be a great 2nd pair D.

Hartnell performed on the ice though, and that influence is super-measurable. Part of the post you responded to was that this influence is fine to look for if it's measurable and Hartnell has a positive influence on the outcomes for his team when he's on the ice (very positive in his case).

I will disagree on advanced stats being a ridiculous way to judge players, especially defense-first defensemen. It shouldn't be the whole picture, but if a guy's effect on his team was that the team had a higher shot surpluss or lower shot deficit with that guy on the ice, and its now the opposite, that has to weigh in. Especially when that guy's role is supposed to be a steady defender who plays a ton of minutes, breaks out clean, gets the puck back, adds a little offense and stops good scoring chances for the other team.

I'm not saying that Seabrook is a bad player, it just appears that he's declining by the measurable outcomes and that is a massive contract to gamble on, and I definitely would not take that for the intangibles like "he knows how to win". Seabrook today at his worst is a 2nd pair D, sure, but acquiring him means you have to think about what he is when he's over 35 because he's on your payroll and cap until he's 40. So if he's not an NHL'er at 35+ (which is not a knock on what I think of him, its just a legitimate possibility for anyone in the league at that age) then you have 4-5 years of dead cap of $6.8mil which is absolutely paralyzing for a team like the leafs who should have a bunch of young stars to re-sign in that timeframe

 

[TOGuy14]

please and thank you

Leipsic was nearly a PPG in the AHL last year, had 3 points in 6 games in the NHL for us, and is over a PPG in the AHL this year.

I see him being a potential Brad Marchand lite, wouldn't move him in this kind of deal.

 

[BlueBaron]

good on the OP for finding something that appears to be mutually interesting, but Seabrook's contract is a non-starter for the leafs. We're going to need that cap space, the term takes us through the RFA and first UFA contracts for all of the big 3, Rielly's next contract (where he'll be 28 years old and likely looking for big dollars), the RFA and UFA contracts for Zaitsev, the RFA and maybe UFA contracts for next year's first rounder, and who knows that else with all of the rookies we have coming up in the next few years

We have like 21 Mil coming off the books next year and another 10ish the year after. Just like we can afford JVR going forward we could also afford a Seabrook.

It is an interesting proposal.

 

[FerrisRox]

I take it no one in here watches him and just goes on his pre contract reputation? Last year he was not good and has been worse this year.

This is an 8 year deal signed to a #1 D type money (I.E, worse than the Phaneuf contract you all wanted out of) and is a Giradi/Redden in the making.

Leafs lose this deal no matter if we only gave up a 7th.

You are classic.

All time favourite poster.