Proposal: Chi - Tor

[BB88]

This is like really bad for Toronto.

 

[scan15*]

Gotta retain $1.5-2 million on that Seabrook contract.

Can't even do a buy out, because it's full of bonuses.

 

[migi]

Pokka and McNeill for Leipsic and Leivo thank you.

 

[tony d]

Aside from the contract Seabrook would be a decent add for Toronto.

 

[Spazkat]

Brent Seabrook for JVR

Toronto needs a right shooting defenseman, who isn't a scrub, and Chicago does have one. Chicago needs a help on LW, so JVR will obviously... well, help.

You specifically state you don't want a scrub and then ask for Seabrook? Have you actually watched him lately? He's 31, has a 6.875M contract that runs until 2024 and is virtually buyout proof due to bonus structure. Why on earth would you want any part of that?

 

[Randy Randerson]

Those depth players are borderline NHL players in there prime. Having your 13 FR or 7th D man be a vet does not help win. Mixing up talented Vets in with the young talent does. Sharp and hossa were top 6 guys and Campbell was top 4, mixed in with young teows, Kane, Buff, keith hammer and Seabs. My point is EDM is a bad example because Mcdavid is not a normal # 1 pick. What is they ended up with # 3 instead of #1?

do you think that maybe talent is the x factor rather than how old these players are? Sharp, Hossa and Campbell were top line/top pairing players at the time, so of course adding top young talent to an already decent core is going to make the team better faster, it also means you draft lower going forward

And I do not subscribe to the idea that Edmonton was going to be perpetually bad forever, of course getting a piece like McDavid helps it move along but drafting high for long periods of time pays off. Would also say that Ryan Smyth was far from a fringe NHL'er in his prime, Edmonton brought him back with I believe exactly what you're talking about in mind after he had just had 3 decent seasons in LA and was still only 34. If they ended up with #3 instead of McDavid, their top 6 would be something like Hall-Draisatl-Eberle, Yakupov(or Lucic if they still sign him)-RNH-Puljujarvi and they would probably have Hanifin on their blue line, not exactly catastrophic

Look at Tavares, he lead his bad team in scoring for the first 4 seasons of his career, has never been anything but the focal point of that team and the team is now competing despite being bad while he was coming along

 

[Kshahdoo]

You specifically state you don't want a scrub and then ask for Seabrook? Have you actually watched him lately? He's 31, has a 6.875M contract that runs until 2024 and is virtually buyout proof due to bonus structure. Why on earth would you want any part of that?

I've watched all Chicago and Toronto games this season, so I know what I offer. Seabrook has been decent this year. I mean, decent for #2D, not just for D.

 

[Spazkat]

I've watched all Chicago and Toronto games this season, so I know what I offer. Seabrook has been decent this year. I mean, decent for #2D, not just for D.

Personally, I'd be more apt to view this few game sample as the anomaly given the abysmal play all of last year, even if he is "decent"... but still. Do you really think 'decent' is worth that kind of money and do you expect this level of play out of him for the next seven years. Till he's what.. 38-39? That sets up all sorts of warning bells for me - and Id imagine most GM's as well. That's a future Girardi/Scuderi in the making there - except Seabrook gets paid more lol.

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

He has a full NMC, wouldn't waive it to go to the worst team in the league.

 

[iBELEAF]

Garbage. Not even close.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Personally, I'd be more apt to view this few game sample as the anomaly given the abysmal play all of last year, even if he is "decent"... but still. Do you really think 'decent' is worth that kind of money and do you expect this level of play out of him for the next seven years. Till he's what.. 38-39? That sets up all sorts of warning bells for me - and Id imagine most GM's as well. That's a future Girardi/Scuderi in the making there - except Seabrook gets paid more lol.

Gonchar was pretty decent untill the age 36-37, and he was more or less similar to Seabrook. So in theory Toronto would have 4-5 of his good years, which isn't bad. Of course, it's hard to say what it would turn out to be on practice, but the same can be said about almost everything.

 

[Cubs2024wildcard]

Lol@ Seabrook being bad.

The guy carried horrible partners last year, had his most productive offensive season of his career and gets blame for bad Corsi numbers considering his pairing most of the time was with a very mediocre TVR. Seabrook is in his prime. Prime top pairing guys just don't get traded.

Seabrook is a top pairing guy. It's going to take a lot more then JVR to get Bowman to consider moving him, couple that honesty with Seabrook NMC and the reality his isn't going to wave from a Cup Contender to a really bad team and it's best to say neither team does this.

 

[Pops]

Pokka and McNeill for Leipsic and Leivo thank you.

Done, as a leaf fan.I still believe Pokka has 2nd pairing potential

 

[Randy Randerson]

Lol@ Seabrook being bad.

The guy carried horrible partners last year, had his most productive offensive season of his career and gets blame for bad Corsi numbers considering his pairing most of the time was with a very mediocre TVR. Seabrook is in his prime. Prime top pairing guys just don't get traded.

Seabrook is a top pairing guy. It's going to take a lot more then JVR to get Bowman to consider moving him, couple that honesty with Seabrook NMC and the reality his isn't going to wave from a Cup Contender to a really bad team and it's best to say neither team does this.

It's not the player that's bad, its the contract - that's what posters are referring to when they say it's bad for Toronto. Seabrook has albatross written all over him, the legacy of keeping a good core together is big contracts that are too long - if you don't sign them, those guys walk as UFA's when you want to keep them. It would tie our hands with our young core guys for re-signings, sort of like the Panarin situation but we'll have a bunch more to re-sign

In terms of Value, a 27 year old top line winger on a team friendly contract that sees you through 2 years of contention with your core in its prime that saves $2.5m/yr in cap space I think is worth a 31 year old #2 RHD on an 8 year deal worth over 6.8m/year. Seabrook is a good player, but the age and contract factor into his value heavily. It's not an attack on Seabrook, just a realistic assessment of his scenario because if you're trading for him, he's still on your books at 39/40

 

[Toronto makebeleifs]

This is one of those trades that is fair; but the circumstances for toronto aren't suited for it. I really like Seabrook, but realisically we won't be competing for another 2 years. Seabrook is suited for a winning team, the leafs are not there yet. Lastly, we'd need to have to sign alot of our rookies to their 2nd contracts in 2 years; dispite what Seabrook can bring, 6.8m for another 7 years for a guy who is already 31.... that's just too tough to take on going forward.

 

[thefish]

Lol@ Seabrook being bad.

Prime top pairing guys just don't get traded.

Guys like Seabrook don't get traded either.
He's fine for now, but he's not top pair anymore. And he has a long term huge contract, and is only going to get worse. He has negative trade value now - especially for a young team like the Leafs.

 

[Morgs]

Leafs say no.

We don't need that boat anchor of a contract.

 

[Advanced stats]

I like it for CHI

I love it for Toronto.







With retention.

Would throw in a depth winger prospect if Chicago retains.

I don't think people realize how much a minute munching, 1st pairing, vet presence would help the leafs. Gives stability for the next 5 seasons, and let's our rookies grow into their roles.

 

[Morgs]

Pokka and McNeill for Leipsic and Leivo thank you.

I'd probably do it.

 

[Randy Randerson]

I love it for Toronto.







With retention.

Would throw in a depth winger prospect if Chicago retains.

I don't think people realize how much a minute munching, 1st pairing, vet presence would help the leafs. Gives stability for the next 5 seasons, and let's our rookies grow into their roles.

In the time period of Seabrook's contract the leafs will have to re-sign:

Auston Matthews twice
William Nylander twice
Mitch Marner twice
Morgan Rielly
Nikita Zaitsev twice
next year's 1st rounder at least once, probably twice
A starting goalie, Andersen or otherwise

Possibly, depending on personnel decisions and guys turning out:
Kadri as a UFA
JVR as a UFA
Brown twice (RFA+UFA)
Hyman twice (RFA+UFA)
Neilsen/Dermott (RFA's)
Kapanen (RFA)
A bunch more depth guys


There's just no room for a contract like this if it's not contributing in a big way on the ice in the 5-8 years from now range

 

[Advanced stats]

In the time period of Seabrook's contract the leafs will have to re-sign:

Auston Matthews twice
William Nylander twice
Mitch Marner twice
Morgan Rielly
Nikita Zaitsev twice
next year's 1st rounder at least once, probably twice
A starting goalie, Andersen or otherwise

Possibly, depending on personnel decisions and guys turning out:
Kadri as a UFA
JVR as a UFA
Brown twice (RFA+UFA)
Hyman twice (RFA+UFA)
Neilsen/Dermott (RFA's)
Kapanen (RFA)
A bunch more depth guys


There's just no room for a contract like this if it's not contributing in a big way on the ice in the 5-8 years from now range

Even if Chicago were to retain 2 million?

Not to mention the cap increasing over that time?



And how the heck do you know Toronto will have to resign Matthews, Marner, Nylander and zaitsev twice?

Personally I think most of them get signed to long term deals. Right after their elc. Like Ekblad and such.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Even if Chicago were to retain 2 million?

Not to mention the cap increasing over that time?



And how the heck do you know Toronto will have to resign Matthews, Marner, Nylander and zaitsev twice?

Personally I think most of them get signed to long term deals. Right after their elc. Like Ekblad and such.

$4mil and change is still a big commitment for someone who could be not worthy of an NHL roster in the last few years of his contract. I would say sure if you think he's still a 2nd pairing guy at 37-39 years old but its a huge gamble, short term cap means a lot less than it will when we start having to re-sign guys

I assume that the bridge deals will be like Rielly's at 5 years, but if not the AAV goes up to buy UFA years from them so having Seabrook on the books is still prohibitive

 

[Cubs2024wildcard]

Guys like Seabrook don't get traded either.
He's fine for now, but he's not top pair anymore. And he has a long term huge contract, and is only going to get worse. He has negative trade value now - especially for a young team like the Leafs.

Seabrook is a top pairing guy no matter what Corsi stats start to get thrown around claiming he isn't.

Seabrook becomes the best defenseman on the Leafs if (and it's 100℅ not going to happen nor should it) a trade would be made.

Seabrook is worth that contract to a Cup Contender, which is why he was given that contract in the first place. There is no "negative value" in a top pairing guy who can play twenty minutes a game and be a game breaker in the playoffs. None. Will it be a bad contract when he's 38? Sure, but who is really gonna care by then? The Hawks who have three banners hanging up so far in their building with room for at least two more by the time that contract runs out?

Seabrook is only of value to the Leafs if they consider him a piece to put them over the top, like, the final piece. That he isn't as he's been proven to be a great defenseman when surrounded by quality defenseman. And while I like the kids on the Leafs BL, they really aren't up to snuff cocompared to the Hawks experienced top four.

Let the Leafs build it back the way they have been. A trade for a Seabrook means they are rushing for results quick instead of staying the course.

 

[thedoughboy]

Even if Chicago were to retain 2 million?

Not to mention the cap increasing over that time?



And how the heck do you know Toronto will have to resign Matthews, Marner, Nylander and zaitsev twice?

Personally I think most of them get signed to long term deals. Right after their elc. Like Ekblad and such.

Don't mean to kill the hypothetical, but that has less chance of happening then the hawks giving the leafs seabrook for free. Hawks absolutely going wanting JVR for effectively 6.25mil right? No, at that point (and reality) we have to keep seabook because we are weak on the right side, and he is better than most people give him credit for. Getting strapped with TVR, a RD playing LD who is a 5th defensemen at best is pretty ****ing rough

 

[Spazkat]

They Leafs are not 1 Brent Seabrook away from competing. TBH all the defensive help in the world won't help if the forwards don't chip in and start playing a more defensively responsible game.