Proposal: CHI and TOR

[The Red Line]

Classic.

That doesn't even get you close to Dach.

 

[CreeksideStrangler]

He is our top 4 dman and 1 or 2 best puckmovers. no thanks

 

[Team Cozens]

Dach

for

Sandin and Robertson and 2nd

Dach wasn't available for Eichel. LOL

 

[kevsh]

A starting point would be, what does Chicago need and what are they willing to give up. Hawks fans can better speak to the first part but anyone can tell you Dach is almost certainly not on the list of what they’re willing to move to get it.

 

[AvroArrow]

Maybe the posters said it was an easy pass because Dach is a 6'4" 20 year old C that is starting to show he can have a positive impact on the NHL game, in an organization with a 33 year old #1C and no other real options in their system. Maybe the thought of adding a top 4 offensive dman and an undersized winger with potential durability issues regardless of how they are perceived by Leaf fans isn't worth trading their future top 6 C - (maybe even 1st line). The Hawks have Jones and Murphy signed long term with Mitchell, Allen and Beaudin on the farm. So the Hawks would lose their only young top 6 C for players in positions of less need. C and RHD are difficult positions to find players, especially top line players - LHD and winger don't demand as high a costs of acquisition it seems. So explain to me again how this is silly?

Your analysis of Sandin/Robertson is silly. Especially Robertson. You only see him as undersized and injury prone, forget that he absolutely blew Dach out of the water in junior and has had a very impressive start to his pro career in the AHL. Also as Debrincat has shown us, undersized doesn't mean shit. A potential top 6 C for a young top 4 D + potential top 6 winger who has had a very good junior career + AHL career although it's early. If we're gonna call Dach a maybe 1st line C, Sandin/Robertson are both maybe #1D and #1winger.

The second bold quote is very reasonable and I get that. C is a position of need for Chicago so if they don't want to move him I get that. But you're seriously under rating the hell out of Sandin/Robertson. You like your prospect and that's cool, but those 2 guys are far better than you think and have the same if not more potential than Dach. So once again, the idea that this is not even considered by Chicago is a joke. Either you think wayyyy too highly of Dach or way too lowly of Sandin + Robertson.

Anyways Leafs cannot afford to move two good young players on ELC. We need guys on cheap contracts to come in and contribute. Their low cap hit + position is more valuable to us than a C prospect. We have Matthews/Tavares/Kampf/Spezza up the middle, C prospect is not a need for us.

 

[Boondock]

Your analysis of Sandin/Robertson is silly. Especially Robertson. You only see him as undersized and injury prone, forget that he absolutely blew Dach out of the water in junior and has had a very impressive start to his pro career in the AHL. Also as Debrincat has shown us, undersized doesn't mean shit. A potential top 6 C for a young top 4 D + potential top 6 winger who has had a very good junior career + AHL career although it's early. If we're gonna call Dach a maybe 1st line C, Sandin/Robertson are both maybe #1D and #1winger.

The second bold quote is very reasonable and I get that. C is a position of need for Chicago so if they don't want to move him I get that. But you're seriously under rating the hell out of Sandin/Robertson. You like your prospect and that's cool, but those 2 guys are far better than you think and have the same if not more potential than Dach. So once again, the idea that this is not even considered by Chicago is a joke. Either you think wayyyy too highly of Dach or way too lowly of Sandin + Robertson.

Anyways Leafs cannot afford to move two good young players on ELC. We need guys on cheap contracts to come in and contribute. Their low cap hit + position is more valuable to us than a C prospect. We have Matthews/Tavares/Kampf/Spezza up the middle, C prospect is not a need for us.

1) My evaluation of Robertson is silly - yet here is an excerpt from a Toronto based media outlet:
"Since March 2020, Robertson has only been able to play in 33 professional games and has unfortunately caught the injury bug before. At the beginning of the 2020-21 season, he suffered a knee injury that kept him out for four weeks, when it looked like it could have been much worse.
I’m not putting the blame of these injuries purely on his size, but when you’re 5-foot-9, 165 pounds going up against 6-foot-3, 220 pound defensemen every night, you put yourself in a vulnerable position when you go into the corners.
Robertson is a very skilled player and undersized players can flourish in the modern-day NHL, but when he returns to full-health, he should try his best to be more aware on the ice. This leg injury was a little freakish, but if he was bigger and stronger, it probably wouldn’t have happened."

2) Robertson blew Dach out of the water in Junior: Fact check and....in the season prior to being drafted and his draft year Kirby Dach played 114 games and had 119 points or 1.04 ppg. In the same 2 seasons Robertson played 116 games and scored 88 points or 0.76 ppg. In their draft +1 years Kirby Dach scored 23 points in the NHL as an 18 year old. In the same season, Robertson's D+1 year, he had a great season scoring 86 points in 46 games....in the OHL. So in comparable years in the same level of competition Dach actually did better than Robertson in Junior. Tough to compare CHL and NHL stats for their D+1 year but not sure your argument stands.

3) An argument could be made that team with Debrincat probably isn't in a rush to move their only young top 6 C with size for another undersized winger and an offensive 2nd pairing LHD.

4) Not my guys - I'm not a Chicago fan.

5) I watch 200 hockey games a year - Junior, AHL, NHL, NCAA, International. I'd say I have as good of a read on those 2 as almost any "casual" fan. You respond with Leaf glasses on and instantly go into victim mode. I was pointing out that posters without your bias aren't necessarily wrong, they just see value in areas you do not, or don't see value in areas you do. Assuming someone with a difference of opinion is wrong just makes you come off as ignorant.

 

[nbwingsfan]

While I get the sentiment, Dach is going to be a very good player, some of these responses are a little crazy. What has he proven that Sandin hasn't? We're not paying a good prospect and a 2nd to swap them...

Sandin Isn’t even close to the level of prospect… are you kidding?

 

[McJedi]

Dach

for

Sandin and Robertson and 2nd

Go ahead and keep adding.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Your analysis of Sandin/Robertson is silly. Especially Robertson. You only see him as undersized and injury prone, forget that he absolutely blew Dach out of the water in junior and has had a very impressive start to his pro career in the AHL. Also as Debrincat has shown us, undersized doesn't mean shit. A potential top 6 C for a young top 4 D + potential top 6 winger who has had a very good junior career + AHL career although it's early. If we're gonna call Dach a maybe 1st line C, Sandin/Robertson are both maybe #1D and #1winger.

The second bold quote is very reasonable and I get that. C is a position of need for Chicago so if they don't want to move him I get that. But you're seriously under rating the hell out of Sandin/Robertson. You like your prospect and that's cool, but those 2 guys are far better than you think and have the same if not more potential than Dach. So once again, the idea that this is not even considered by Chicago is a joke. Either you think wayyyy too highly of Dach or way too lowly of Sandin + Robertson.

Anyways Leafs cannot afford to move two good young players on ELC. We need guys on cheap contracts to come in and contribute. Their low cap hit + position is more valuable to us than a C prospect. We have Matthews/Tavares/Kampf/Spezza up the middle, C prospect is not a need for us.

What are you talking about? Robertson had 55pts in his draft year and Dach had 73… Sure Robertson had a great next season, but Dach was too busy playing top 6 in the NHL to care. Not sure why you’re making stuff up to try and make your guy look better. He also has 5G in 23 AHL games… that’s very impressive for a goal scorer? You guys had him penciled in as a top 6w on the Leafs for the last two years…

Please show me which of these guys might have “more potential”?

 

[newmanager]

Holy moly. I wouldn't even trade Colton Dach for that package.

 

[Flyer lurker]

This offers needs Jeremy Bracco to be a perfect leaf offer (I know he isn't a leaf)

 

[AvroArrow]

What are you talking about? Robertson had 55pts in his draft year and Dach had 73… Sure Robertson had a great next season, but Dach was too busy playing top 6 in the NHL to care. Not sure why you’re making stuff up to try and make your guy look better. He also has 5G in 23 AHL games… that’s very impressive for a goal scorer? You guys had him penciled in as a top 6w on the Leafs for the last two years…

Please show me which of these guys might have “more potential”?

Dude I literally have not read a single one of your posts in months, cheers

 

[Boondock]

Dude I literally have not read a single one of your posts in months, cheers

From reading your post it seems like you literally haven't read a single stat before posting either.

 

[ToDavid]

Sandin Isn’t even close to the level of prospect… are you kidding?

I would hardly call either of them prospects anymore.

 

[Mrfenn92]

Holy moly. I wouldn't even trade Colton Dach for that package.

Yes you would

 

[nbwingsfan]

Dude I literally have not read a single one of your posts in months, cheers

I’m assuming you also haven’t read a single stat from a non-Leafs player in months judging by your post history too…

 

[nbwingsfan]

From reading your post it seems like you literally haven't read a single stat before posting either.

Exactly my thoughts haha

 

[AvroArrow]

1) My evaluation of Robertson is silly - yet here is an excerpt from a Toronto based media outlet:
"Since March 2020, Robertson has only been able to play in 33 professional games and has unfortunately caught the injury bug before. At the beginning of the 2020-21 season, he suffered a knee injury that kept him out for four weeks, when it looked like it could have been much worse.
I’m not putting the blame of these injuries purely on his size, but when you’re 5-foot-9, 165 pounds going up against 6-foot-3, 220 pound defensemen every night, you put yourself in a vulnerable position when you go into the corners.
Robertson is a very skilled player and undersized players can flourish in the modern-day NHL, but when he returns to full-health, he should try his best to be more aware on the ice. This leg injury was a little freakish, but if he was bigger and stronger, it probably wouldn’t have happened."

2) Robertson blew Dach out of the water in Junior: Fact check and....in the season prior to being drafted and his draft year Kirby Dach played 114 games and had 119 points or 1.04 ppg. In the same 2 seasons Robertson played 116 games and scored 88 points or 0.76 ppg. In their draft +1 years Kirby Dach scored 23 points in the NHL as an 18 year old. In the same season, Robertson's D+1 year, he had a great season scoring 86 points in 46 games....in the OHL. So in comparable years in the same level of competition Dach actually did better than Robertson in Junior. Tough to compare CHL and NHL stats for their D+1 year but not sure your argument stands.

3) An argument could be made that team with Debrincat probably isn't in a rush to move their only young top 6 C with size for another undersized winger and an offensive 2nd pairing LHD.

4) Not my guys - I'm not a Chicago fan.

5) I watch 200 hockey games a year - Junior, AHL, NHL, NCAA, International. I'd say I have as good of a read on those 2 as almost any "casual" fan. You respond with Leaf glasses on and instantly go into victim mode. I was pointing out that posters without your bias aren't necessarily wrong, they just see value in areas you do not, or don't see value in areas you do. Assuming someone with a difference of opinion is wrong just makes you come off as ignorant.

Again, I don't think you know what "Victim mode" means, you've used it incorrectly twice now.

No, saying "Chicago doesn't even consider this" is just ignorant and just shows how little that person really knows. It's a passive aggressive way to call player x and y, trash. A guy has 6 points in 16 games and you laugh at the idea of him being traded for Sandin/Robertson. As I've mentioned several times, you either think way too highly of Dach or way too lowly of the 2 young leafs players.

And yes your evaluation of Robertson was extremely silly in your previous posts. Dach is almost a full year older than Robertson, in player development at a young age that is a massive difference maker. Dach has been an average young player in the NHL, Robertson has been dominant in the AHL. 2 different leagues so it's kind of tough to compare. I doubt Robertson would be putting up PPG or close to it at the NHL. But check them out in JR.

For your draft + "fact check" Robertson dominated juniors when he was the same age as Dach. Remember, Dach is 9 months older than Robertson. For young players, especially in junior that gap is MASSIVE. So when Robertson was lighting up the OHL scoring 55 goals and 86 points in 46 games, he was the same age as Dach when he scored 73 points in 62 games. You're completely ignoring age, very flawed way to look at it. It's not just JR, draft year, D+ year, one player is almost a full year older than the other. At the same age at the same level of competition, Robertson actually blew Dach out of the water in terms of production.

And no that's not what you were pointing out, you were pointing out that this offer is not even close and would not be considered from Chicago's end, which obviously means you think Dach >>> Sandin + Robertson in your opinion. It's spineless passive aggressive way to diss a player or players.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

The fact that multiple posters call this an easy pass and that the hawks don't consider it would suggest they think Sandin/Robertson are scrubs. Either that or they think Dach is an elite level prospect like say Zegras, that they'd so easily pass on those 2. I'm not sure which one is sillier.

Why would Dach not be in the same category as Zegras and Cozens? He was the best player on that team Canada world Junior team before he got hurt.

 

[Boondock]

Again, I don't think you know what "Victim mode" means, you've used it incorrectly twice now.

No, saying "Chicago doesn't even consider this" is just ignorant and just shows how little that person really knows. It's a passive aggressive way to call player x and y, trash. A guy has 6 points in 16 games and you laugh at the idea of him being traded for Sandin/Robertson. As I've mentioned several times, you either think way too highly of Dach or way too lowly of the 2 young leafs players.

And yes your evaluation of Robertson was extremely silly in your previous posts. Dach is almost a full year older than Robertson, in player development at a young age that is a massive difference maker. Dach has been an average young player in the NHL, Robertson has been dominant in the AHL. 2 different leagues so it's kind of tough to compare. I doubt Robertson would be putting up PPG or close to it at the NHL. But check them out in JR.

For your draft + "fact check" Robertson dominated juniors when he was the same age as Dach. Remember, Dach is 9 months older than Robertson. For young players, especially in junior that gap is MASSIVE. So when Robertson was lighting up the OHL scoring 55 goals and 86 points in 46 games, he was the same age as Dach when he scored 73 points in 62 games. You're completely ignoring age, very flawed way to look at it. It's not just JR, draft year, D+ year, one player is almost a full year older than the other. At the same age at the same level of competition, Robertson actually blew Dach out of the water in terms of production.

And no that's not what you were pointing out, you were pointing out that this offer is not even close and would not be considered from Chicago's end, which obviously means you think Dach >>> Sandin + Robertson in your opinion. It's spineless passive aggressive way to diss a player or players.

Show me any post that indicated the bolded - mine or others. I like the way you skirted your poorly thought out argument with month born. I'm surprised you didn't break it down into minutes to try to make your point seem more relevant - but he's 250 days younger.....

There's an exact definition for "Victim Mode" ?? - please post that as I didn't realize you could use that expression wrong since it's not an expression.....

I will change my narrative from victim mode to cry baby - is that better?

 

[HockeyVirus]

This offers needs Jeremy Bracco to be a perfect leaf offer (I know he isn't a leaf)

Why? These are good pieces.. Our top prospect and a 21 year old NHL dman who will be a top 4 D for years.

 

[Sinbad]

SANDIN is producing pretty much at the same PPG rate as DACH (AS A DEFENCEMAN) - plus Robertson

Ok, so let the Leafs keep him.

 

[Flyer lurker]

Why? These are good pieces.. Our top prospect and a 21 year old NHL dman who will be a top 4 D for years.

Every fan base does this but Leafs among the worst at it. When making an offer your team gets the shiniest toy. Dach was not drafted by Hawks to get 2 "good" pieces. Dach was drafted to be a top 3 forward in the organization for 15 years. (By all means debate if he will get there). 2 "good" pieces won't get near the Hawks to give up that potential.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Every fan base does this but Leafs among the worst at it. When making an offer your team gets the shiniest toy. Dach was not drafted by Hawks to get 2 "good" pieces. Dach was drafted to be a top 3 forward in the organization for 15 years. (By all means debate if he will get there). 2 "good" pieces won't get near the Hawks to give up that potential.

I mean, this is 1 Leaf fan. You act like the fanbase wants him. We already have 2 #1 C's. Not worth blowing our load on another C athough we'd of course love to have him, he's not a priority.

My point was you acted like this was trash. Bracco was a longshot prospect. This is potential 2 very good players.

 

[Boondock]

I mean, this is 1 Leaf fan. You act like the fanbase wants him. We already have 2 #1 C's. Not worth blowing our load on another C athough we'd of course love to have him, he's not a priority.

My point was you acted like this was trash. Bracco was a longshot prospect. This is potential 2 very good players.

Should we bump some of those old Bracco threads to refresh your memory. He was a sure fire top 6 scorer in a lot of Leafs fans minds. This wasn't a 1 fan thing.