OT: Chess

[Harbour Dog]

Happy Holidays!

World Rapid & Blitz: Can Magnus keep his triple crown?

"Magnus Carlsen, Hikaru Nakamura and Alireza Firouzja are in action as the chess world’s favourite Christmas tradition, the World Rapid and Blitz Championship, starts Sunday, December 26th. The $1 million tournament will see Magnus attempt to retain his triple crown as World Champion in blitz, rapid and classical chess, but the competition is fierce, with only Ding Liren and Wesley So missing from the Top 10. Humpy Koneru and Kateryna Lagno are also back to defend their titles"

Firouzja misses Wijk after compensation demand denied

"Magnus Carlsen's hunt to break the 2900 barrier begins with the 84th edition of the prestigious Tata Steel Chess tournament in Wijk aan Zee, Netherlands, which takes place from January 14-30. Chess fans will unfortunately not see a clash between the World Champion and the new world no. 2, 18-year-old Alireza Firouzja, as the organisers turned down his demands for compensation over the row at the end of the 2021 edition". @Harbour Dog , is Ali in the right or the wrong here?​

He definitely had the right to be pissed at the time, but I don't see the point in pushing it as far as he has.

I'm not sure how much money it potentially cost him, but not enough that he won't make it 100x over before his career is done. I assume it's more a matter of principle for him.

 

[Ben Grimm]

TOURNAMENT STANDINGS
Hoogovens Group A Tournament

Vasyl Ivanchuk 9/13 (+5 -0 =8) [games] Viswanathan Anand 8/13 (+5 -2 =6) [games] Veselin Topalov 7.5/13 (+4 -2 =7) [games] [TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

He definitely had the right to be pissed at the time, but I don't see the point in pushing it as far as he has. I'm not sure how much money it potentially cost him, but not enough that he won't make it 100x over before his career is done. I assume it's more a matter of principle for him.

I'm not gonna get too upset, because I see that the top 3 players (the 3 Ks) all missed 1996 so it's not unheard of. The top 3 finishers were top 8 in the world, which will probably happen again in February. I like Carlsen & Nakamura in the Rapid World Championship. How about you, @Harbour Dog ?

 

[Harbour Dog]

For the rapid portion, I think Hikaru and Carlsen stand alone, yeah. Fabi has done a heck of a job re-inventing his speed chess game since Carlsen exposed him so badly in the rapid tiebreaks of their WC match.

In blitz, Artemiev and Firouzja are beasts too, and either one could come out on top without it being too shocking. And again, maybe Fabi has honed in on something meaningful in speed chess, and he can impress there too; but it is unlikely.

Duda is a guy to watch closely too. He was a beast at the World Cup, could be in the best form of his life, and tends to be better as time controls gets faster.

 

[Ben Grimm]

"Let's make 5…c5 the main line against 5.Bd2!"

"It was just a few weeks ago that Markus Ragger published a complete repertoire on two FritzTrainers for his favourite opening against 1.d4: the Gruenfeld Defence. In the new ChessBase Magazine #205 he provides an update on the variation with 5.Bd2, since the new idea of 5...c5 has recently proved very attractive at the highest level. Among others, it was used by Carlsen, Giri and Dubov. While Markus Ragger in his FritzTrainer still recommends the common and still fully valid continuation 5...Bg7, his appeal in ChessBase Magazine is clear: "Let's make 5...c5 the main line against 5.Bd2!"

@Harbour Dog I bet you play 5...c5.​

 

[Harbour Dog]

"Let's make 5…c5 the main line against 5.Bd2!"

"It was just a few weeks ago that Markus Ragger published a complete repertoire on two FritzTrainers for his favourite opening against 1.d4: the Gruenfeld Defence. In the new ChessBase Magazine #205 he provides an update on the variation with 5.Bd2, since the new idea of 5...c5 has recently proved very attractive at the highest level. Among others, it was used by Carlsen, Giri and Dubov. While Markus Ragger in his FritzTrainer still recommends the common and still fully valid continuation 5...Bg7, his appeal in ChessBase Magazine is clear: "Let's make 5...c5 the main line against 5.Bd2!"

@Harbour Dog I bet you play 5...c5.​

Lol, I actually do. Not in this exact position though, because I avoid fianchettoing against the QGD. But I play the Semi-Tarrasch when I'm able, which gets c5 in on move 4.

 

[Ben Grimm]

World Rapid Chess Championship Day 1: Duda, Carlsen, Jobava Share Lead

"GMs Jan-Krzysztof Duda, Magnus Carlsen, and Baadur Jobava share first place with 4.5/5 after day one of the World Rapid Chess Championship. The Polish number one, playing in his home country, started with a fantastic 4/4 perfect score, but his round-five draw with the other leader, Jobava, opened the gates for Carlsen and those following with a half-point behind to catch up".

@Harbour Dog was right about Duda being the best dark horse. Jobava is no slouch at Rapid either.​

 

[Ben Grimm]

Viktor Korchnoi challenges you

"In the history of the Chess World Championships Viktor Korchnoi is an extremely successful player, even if he was ultimately denied the title. If you count the 1974 Candidates Final for challenging Fischer, he played three 'World Championship matches'. The era of Korchnoi's participations in the WCh cycle stretches from the Curacao Candidates Tournament in 1962 to the 1991 quarterfinal match against Timman, which he played at the age of 60. The dramatic fight against Anatoly Karpov in Baguio City in 1978 stands out in particular: hypnosis, cheating accusations with blueberry yoghurt, X-ray examinations on chairs, mirror glasses worn at the board, Korchnoi's comeback to 5-5 after trailing 4-1 are a few of the external circumstances involved"!

I started following chess during the Spassky vs Fischer WC. I'm almost as old as @Harbour Dog It's impossible for me to exaggerate how political chess was before the fall of the Berlin Wall. The Karpov vs Kasparov matches were the USSR vs the young rebel Luke Skywalker. ​

 

[Ben Grimm]

World Rapid Chess Championship Day 2: Carlsen and Kosteniuk Surge Ahead

"GM Magnus Carlsen finished the second day in sole first with 7.5/9, notably defeating two young up-and-coming GMs: Alireza Firouzja and Jan-Krzysztof Duda. He is pursued by three GMs with 7/9: Nodirbek Abdusattorov, who has produced numerous upsets against established names; Alexander Grischuk, who already made a draw with Carlsen; and Ian Nepomniachtchi, who will have to face the world champion on Tuesday, less than a month after their 11-round match".

For the rapid portion, I think Hikaru and Carlsen stand alone, yeah. Fabi has done a heck of a job re-inventing his speed chess game since Carlsen exposed him so badly in the rapid tiebreaks of their WC match. In blitz, Artemiev and Firouzja are beasts too, and either one could come out on top without it being too shocking. And again, maybe Fabi has honed in on something meaningful in speed chess, and he can impress there too; but it is unlikely. Duda is a guy to watch closely too. He was a beast at the World Cup, could be in the best form of his life, and tends to be better as time controls gets faster.

You did a good job naming the best Blitz players. My long shot Blitz dark horses are So and Yu Yangyi. @Harbour Dog​

 

[Harbour Dog]

Carlsen lashes out against FIDE for “completely idiotic” tiebreak rules

"17-year-old Nodirbek Abdusattorov became the sensational World Rapid Chess Champion on Tuesday after a dramatic final day in Warszawa, Poland, which saw four players on top of the standings with 9,5 points after 13 rounds. Afterwards Magnus Carlsen, who along with Fabiano Caruana missed out on a playoff due to worse tiebreaks, lashed out against FIDE for what he called “completely idiotic” tiebreak rules".

idk what to make of this. 17-year-old NA (2633) is the 9th best junior, but not top 100 in classical. idk if Magnus is correct in his tiebreak criticism. Hopefully @Harbour Dog will help us understand here. I'm taking Ali in the Blitz and Esipenko as my dark horse if he's in it.​

Abdusattorov is legit. He's one of those kids whose rating has to catch up to where he is, now that Covid isn't cancelling tournaments anymore. He just won the Sunway Sitges last week too.

I haven't seen anything about Carlsen's remarks yet though; will have to read about that.

 

[SixGoalieSystem]

Abdusattorov is legit. He's one of those kids whose rating has to catch up to where he is, now that Covid isn't cancelling tournaments anymore. He just won the Sunway Sitges last week too.

I haven't seen anything about Carlsen's remarks yet though; will have to read about that.

He pretty much said that the tie break rule is idiotic, that FIDE always f***s it up (his exact words) and that it made no sense for the world championships to be decided by opposition quality.

On one hand I agree that a tie break should involve all players on the winning score. On the other hand, it could potentially be a logistical mess and I'm not sure we'd have the same rant from Carlsen if he was one of two in the tie break.

 

[Harbour Dog]

He pretty much said that the tie break rule is idiotic, that FIDE always f***s it up (his exact words) and that it made no sense for the world championships to be decided by opposition quality.

On one hand I agree that a tie break should involve all players on the winning score. On the other hand, it could potentially be a logistical mess and I'm not sure we'd have the same rant from Carlsen if he was one of two in the tie break.

Carlsen actually finished top 2 in a 2019 tournament and refused to play in the tie break, unless everybody on the same score was included. The organizers decided not to do any tie breaks at all, and Carlsen finished in 2nd. So he's definitely been consistent and shown integrity in his opinion in the past.

He's also got the support of the vast majority of the players, as well as common sense.

But from the organizers perspective, I get it. They would have to basically have a full extra day ready in case there are a bunch of guys tied at the top. As a fan, I would love to see a huge playoff at the end like that, but I can't imagine how much of a mess it would be to prepare.

There's no easy answer. I think in the end, the players have raised enough concerns about this now that something will be changed soon.

@Bogart Firouzja is definitely in line to be Magnus' successor. Kids like Abdusattorov and Esipenko, among others, will probably all find their way to the top 10, and could take those extra steps to be the best. But Firouzja is a different animal right now. He's outpacing young Carlsen by 5.5 months at the moment; though there are reasons to believe that Carlsen would be on a similar pace in this generation.

 

[SixGoalieSystem]

@Harbour Dog I see the potential issue with having a playoff in case of a large group of tied players, however what if one was to use obly games between tied players as the tie breaker?

You might run the risk of one of them not having played everyone, but they would probably be able to account for that possibility as well.

Honestly I don't see it as a huge issue and the right guy won, but with a number of big names speaking out, I'm guessing there will be changes for next year.

 

[Harbour Dog]

@Harbour Dog I see the potential issue with having a playoff in case of a large group of tied players, however what if one was to use obly games between tied players as the tie breaker?

You might run the risk of one of them not having played everyone, but they would probably be able to account for that possibility as well.

Honestly I don't see it as a huge issue and the right guy won, but with a number of big names speaking out, I'm guessing there will be changes for next year.

Head to head tiebreaks are the ideal for me too. But even those are only truly fair in a double round robin tourney, like the Candidates; and they do use that as the first tie breaker there.

In the Swiss system, even if a head to head tiebreak calculated evenly, it would still be unbalanced, because they can only play another player once; and one player would have had the advantage of being White.

I've gotten used to the top2 playing in a playoff, but I don't really like it. It doesn't impact how much I enjoy a tournament, but I would just really like the drama of more match play style shenanigans! The World Cup is amazing.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Also, through 10 rounds (of 24) at the World Blitz today, there are a whole bunch on surprising names at the top. There's been a lot of struggles from the bigger names. Jumping ahead a year, thanks to Covid, has had a big impact.

Aronian - 8.5
Kravtsiv - 8
Dubov - 8
Fedoseev - 7.5
Socko - 7.5
Amin - 7.5
Svane - 7.5

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Fischer stomps Ivanchuk.

Am I crazy for thinking that, depending on the format, Ivanchuk might be able to put up a fight? He was inconsistent, but he was also a creative genius who had a knack for finding counterintuitive moves that other top players might have dismissed. I think that would match up well against Fischer, whose creativity was also off the charts.

In a longer match, say best of 14, I have little doubt Fischer would win. But in a double elimination format, maybe an unpredictable, inconsistent underdog like Ivanchuk has a chance (perhaps more than somone like Anand - ie a better player but more conventional?)

Karpov edges Petrosian, but it's tooth and nail. Any format where you need to win a game against Petrosian is going to be a challenge.

Is it safe to say Petrosian is the Dead Puck Era New Jersey Devils of chess champions? (This is a hockey message board, after all).

 

[Harbour Dog]

Am I crazy for thinking that, depending on the format, Ivanchuk might be able to put up a fight? He was inconsistent, but he was also a creative genius who had a knack for finding counterintuitive moves that other top players might have dismissed. I think that would match up well against Fischer, whose creativity was also off the charts.

In a longer match, say best of 14, I have little doubt Fischer would win. But in a double elimination format, maybe an unpredictable, inconsistent underdog like Ivanchuk has a chance (perhaps more than somone like Anand - ie a better player but more conventional?)



Is it safe to safe Petrosian is the Dead Puck Era New Jersey Devils of chess champions? (This is a hockey message board, after all).

Not crazy at all. There'd practically be guaranteed to be some upsets (though Ivanchuk over Fischer would be one of the bigger ones possible). And as you point out, Ivanchuk has that unpredictability where he could suddenly play a couple of masterpieces out of nowhere.

I think that's a fair assessment of Petrosian, except nobody else was able to replicate it. I would have to do some checking, but I think his tournament results suffered a little because of his cautious style; but in match play situations, he was incredibly difficult to beat. The closest modern player to that slow and steady style, may be Ding.

 

[Ben Grimm]

Not crazy at all. There'd practically be guaranteed to be some upsets (though Ivanchuk over Fischer would be one of the bigger ones possible). And as you point out, Ivanchuk has that unpredictability where he could suddenly play a couple of masterpieces out of nowhere. ...

Agreed. Outside of the top 5 (Kasparov, Carlsen, Fischer, Capablanca, Karpov) I think any of the first round matches are possible upsets.

 

[Ben Grimm]

I want to see the head-to-head records of WCs in my lifetime.

Classical games: Boris Spassky beat Tigran V Petrosian 11 to 10, with 54 draws.

Classical games: Robert James Fischer beat Boris Spassky 17 to 11, with 28 draws.

Player: Robert James Fischer
Player profile: Anatoly Karpov

Sorry, no games at this time. [TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Classical games: Garry Kasparov beat Anatoly Karpov 28 to 21, with 121 draws.

Classical games: Vladimir Kramnik beat Garry Kasparov 5 to 4, with 40 draws.

Classical games: Vladimir Kramnik tied Viswanathan Anand 11 to 11, with 74 draws.

Classical games: Magnus Carlsen beat Viswanathan Anand 12 to 8, with 50 draws.

 

[Ben Grimm]

@Hockey Outsider , I've been a fan of your hockey history posts for years and I really enjoyed your post about VTI which I own. I'm gonna make a classical first win wins (single elimination) January 1996 pre-Deep Blue I tourney with more random seeding and more modern players and hopefully when you and @Harbour Dog have time you can pick the first-round winners, the winner, and the best non-WC. Snubs: Moro, Nepo, Ivan.

I'll take the higher seeds in the first round, Kasparov for the win, and Caruana for the best non-WC.

1. Carlsen
16. Radjabov

8. Anand
9. MVL
====
6. Mamedyarov
11. Kramnik

4. Aronian
13. Grischuk
==========================================================================
3. Caruana
14. Firouzja

5. Topalov
12. Ding Liren
====
7. So
10. Nakamura

2. Kasparov
15. Giri

 

[Hockey Outsider]

@Hockey Outsider , I've been a fan of your hockey history posts for years and I really enjoyed your post about VTI which I own. I'm gonna make a January 1996 pre-Deep Blue I tourney with more random seeding (outside of the top 2 who I think would meet in the finals and Kasparov would win) and more modern players and hopefully when you and @Harbour Dog have time you can pick the first-round winners and winner.

1. Kasparov
16. Radjabov

8. Anand
9. MVL
====
6. Mamedyarov
11. Kramnik

4. Aronian
13. Grischuk
==========================================================================
3. Caruana
14. Firouzja

5. Topalov
12. Ding Liren
====
7. So
10. Nakamura

2. Carlsen
15. Giri

Thanks! Happy to participate, but for the record, I know far less about chess than hockey. (Truthfully, I'm not even sure I can give you an intelligent discussion of the relatives strengths/weaknesses of many of the players on this list - Radjabov, Grischuk, etc). But let me see what I can do.

 

[SixGoalieSystem]

Aaaaaaaaand...Nakamura has Covid. Felt bad before rapid and tested negative. Tested again yesterday (required for the flight home), and was positive. Has withdrawn from blitz and currently FIDE are scrambling to find a solution.

Apparently they were suposed to test every player every other day, but botched it.

Edit: FIDE confirms multiple positives, not only Nakamura.

 

[Harbour Dog]

With four rounds to go at the World Blitz, there is a tie at the top between Dubov, Aronian, Firouzja, Duda, MVL, and Artemiev! Intense coming down the end. Aronian had a full point lead for a while, and Dubov was ahead for a bit.

edit - actually it's the last round!

 

[Harbour Dog]

Duda, Firouzja, and MVL all win. But Firouzja doesn't get to play in the tiebreak because of that top2 rule unfortunately.

So MVL vs. Duda for the title.

 

[Harbour Dog]

They've already announced changes to the tiebreak for the Candidates that has everybody tied for the lead go into a playoff.

I don't really think there is nearly as much issue in round robin tourneys though; hopefully they look into making these types of changes to swiss tournaments from now on too.

 

[Ben Grimm]

Chess: 17-year-old shocks Carlsen and becomes youngest world rapid winner

"A little-known 17-year-old from Uzbekistan made a clean sweep of Magnus Carlsen and the global chess elite on Tuesday, incidentally setting a new world age record. Nodirbek Abdusattorov won the World Rapid championship in Warsaw, claiming en route the scalps of Magnus Carlsen and the No 1’s last two challengers, Fabiano Caruana and Ian Nepomniachtchi. After 21 rounds of three-minute games on Wednesday and Thursday, France’s Maxime Vachier-Lagrave defeated Poland’s Jan-Krzysztof Duda in a tie-break to win the World Blitz title. The 18-year-old world No 2, Alireza Firouzja, was third, but Carlsen was well adrift in 12th place. He said: “Some days you just don’t have it. I was nowhere near close to the level I needed to be today.”

Naka is #1 in Blitz.

1	↑1	Nakamura	2851.0	−33.0		2736 i		2822.6			34
2	↓1	Carlsen	2832.4	−59.6

[TBODY] [/TBODY]