Player Discussion Charlie McAvoy IV

[LSCII]

It's been going on all season.

McAvoy did not have a good year. No question the last 4 games have been even worse.

By his standards, sure. But he was also asked to do more this year than he ever had to do before. I think it’s unreasonable to lose a perennial Selke winner and not have the teams defensive play stumble a bit. At the end of the day, the team still grossly overachieved given they elevated two guys to top 6 center that aren’t actually top 6 centers, and cobbled together a defensive core that featured AHL call ups and castoffs to play every night.

So I guess the question is what’s your expectation for the player?

 

[LSCII]

Remember all those posts you used to make criticizing David Krejci for allegedly not playing to his full ability/potential? The last few pages of this thread look remarkably like those. But suddenly you have a problem with it. Funny that...

Apples to oranges comp there because DK was immensely talented but his attitude sucked. He didn’t care. It didn’t matter to him. Which is why he quit on the fans and his team. And why? Because playing for a coach that wanted more from him was too tough. McAvoy may have had a rough season by his own standards but he didn’t quit and walk away.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

McAvoy is being paid far more than Ray Bourque in his last year as a Bruin, even counting inflation.

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/ray-bourque

https://www.amortization.org/inflation/amount.php?year=1998&amount=4000000

Charlie McAvoy Contract, Cap Hit, Salary and Stats - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Charlie McAvoy contract, salary, cap hit, salary cap, aav, career earnings, lifetime earnings, aav, advanced stats, transaction history, trade history, and rfa or ufa free agent status

www.capfriendly.com

This is Charlies 5th year. Lets just say he has a lot to prove.

This is his 8th PO season.

 

[LSCII]

McAvoy is being paid far more than Ray Bourque in his last year as a Bruin, even counting inflation.

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/ray-bourque

https://www.amortization.org/inflation/amount.php?year=1998&amount=4000000

Charlie McAvoy Contract, Cap Hit, Salary and Stats - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Charlie McAvoy contract, salary, cap hit, salary cap, aav, career earnings, lifetime earnings, aav, advanced stats, transaction history, trade history, and rfa or ufa free agent status

www.capfriendly.com

This is Charlies 5th year. Let’s just say he has a lot to prove.

Are you really pointing to the salary of a guy that always took less as proof that a current player isn't worth it? You clearly don't know or recall that Bourque literally spit in the faces of all his NHLPA contemporaries by never making Sinden pay him actual fair market value, no? And then Sinden used Bourque's deal to low ball everyone else on the team by saying Ray is our best player and I can't possibly pay you more than him, can I? You using this as your "proof" McAvoy isn't good enough is pathetically flawed, actually.

I mean, JFC. This is why we can't have nice things.

 

[Aussie Bruin]

Apples to oranges comp there because DK was immensely talented but his attitude sucked. He didn’t care. It didn’t matter to him. Which is why he quit on the fans and his team. And why? Because playing for a coach that wanted more from him was too tough. McAvoy may have had a rough season by his own standards but he didn’t quit and walk away.

Oh now he's maybe had a 'rough season'? I thought it was just one game?

And as for Krejci you know that's an exaggeration if not, I would argue, outright false. Not the place to go over this old and well-trodden ground again, and besides it's not the point. Rather it's this - you thought DK was fair game, including in playoffs, because subjective reasons that you claim but are entirely a matter of opinion. I can follow the exact same pathway with McAvoy - I believe he is capable of playing to a certain level, and is paid to play at a certain level, said level is not being met in this postseason, therefore I can criticize his performance on that basis. Different reasoning, equally disputable, but the same process.

Really it's much better to keep it simple - see it and say it. If I think a player is performing well I'll say so, if I think they're struggling relative to reasonable expectations I'll say that too. Don't care who they are, don't care what brownie points they've stored in the past, especially at this time of year. Good, bad, indifferent, call it for what it is. If others disagree then thrash it out, as is tradition.

End of the day, I don't even think Charlie's playing that bad. But of late he hasn't been where he needs to be or could be, and because he's such an important player to this team, that's a bit of a problem. Would be huge for the Bruins if he can step up and find his best form. Little would please me more.

 

[Crash Bandicoot]

If McAvoy continues to underperform maybe a trade to Toronto or even Montreal for a big bag of high draft picks and top prospects. Should he suddenly find those missing gears, or two, then the point is mute. I won't hold my breath.

Btw, in Ray Bourque's 1986/87 season, he scored 23 goals and 78 assists in 78 games at +44, and played 26-30 minutes per game. I won't even try and inflation adjust his salary then to McAvoy's now. If I did, it wouldn't be hurdles, it would be high jumps McAvoy would have to surmount.

 

[Patdud]

Ray Bourque is like the 2nd or 3rd best defensemen to ever play in the NHL, trying to stat compare McAvoy to that is a little silly

 

[Over the volcano]

Ray Bourque is like the 2nd or 3rd best defensemen to ever play in the NHL, trying to stat compare McAvoy to that is a little silly

If anything its a compliment to McAvoy

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

A great player can struggle without being tossed around as someone who should be dumped in a trade.

 

[Crash Bandicoot]

Ray Bourque is like the 2nd or 3rd best defensemen to ever play in the NHL, trying to stat compare McAvoy to that is a little silly

Why? McAvoy is paid far more than Ray Bourque ever collected in inflation-adjusted dollars. Paying far more for far less isn't a sound management decision.

 

[Patdud]

Why? McAvoy is paid far more than Ray Bourque ever collected in inflation-adjusted dollars. Paying far more for far less isn't a sound management decision.

Thats because Harry Sinden was a Cheap POS and Ken Holland gave Darnell Nurse 9 million.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

By his standards, sure. But he was also asked to do more this year than he ever had to do before. I think it’s unreasonable to lose a perennial Selke winner and not have the teams defensive play stumble a bit. At the end of the day, the team still grossly overachieved given they elevated two guys to top 6 center that aren’t actually top 6 centers, and cobbled together a defensive core that featured AHL call ups and castoffs to play every night.

So I guess the question is what’s your expectation for the player?

At age 22, Charlie finished 10th in Norris voting.

The next 2 seasons he was in the top 5. Better than both Hedman & Josi at the same age.

Safe to say expectations would be Norris trophy level seasons as he should be just entering his prime.

 

[Crash Bandicoot]

A great player can struggle without being tossed around as someone who should be dumped in a trade.

Your perspective is why so many people lose money in the stock market—keeping underperforming stocks (even losses) where similar stocks in the same sector outperform.

It's a strategy not based on facts, but on hope. Hope is a poor strategy, not only because it fails 70% of the time, but because it ties up valuable capital that can be deployed in a superior asset, and participate in superior gains.

Now, you must excuse me; the Markets are open, and I need to polish some of my portfolios to capture gains and redeploy them into oversold sectors.

 

[Eddie Munson]

If McAvoy continues to underperform maybe a trade to Toronto or even Montreal for a big bag of high draft picks and top prospects. Should he suddenly find those missing gears, or two, then the point is mute. I won't hold my breath.

Btw, in Ray Bourque's 1986/87 season, he scored 23 goals and 78 assists in 78 games at +44, and played 26-30 minutes per game. I won't even try and inflation adjust his salary then to McAvoy's now. If I did, it wouldn't be hurdles, it would be high jumps McAvoy would have to surmount.

I don't know why the bar for McAvoy is Bourque who was a vastly different player. McAvoy will never put up the offensive numbers Bourque did.

Also, comparing salaries using inflation as a metric is useless. Look at the NBA and MLB and compare the old greats to even relatively good players today. The leagues have changed, the salary cap structures have changed, the CBAs have changed.

Lastly, trading McAvoy away due to one bad seasons/post-season would be one of the dumbest possible moves this team could make. Bag of picks and top prospects from Montreal or Toronto? Please..... Whats next? Swayman to Edmonton for Draisatle or Pastrnak to Utah for their next 7 firsts.... Let's get serious here because this talk is bordering on the absurd.

Your perspective is why so many people lose money in the stock market—keeping underperforming stocks (even losses) where similar stocks in the same sector outperform.

It's a strategy not based on facts, but on hope. Hope is a poor strategy, not only because it fails 70% of the time, but because it ties up valuable capital that can be deployed in a superior asset, and participate in superior gains.

Now, you must excuse me; the Markets are open, and I need to polish some of my portfolios to capture gains and redeploy them into oversold sectors.

Stick to stocks

 

[Hookslide]

It's mental. I haven't heard any whisper of injury. Certainly is baffling.

I don't know if he is hurt, that is why the secrecy of injuries can be frustrating for the fans and hurtful for the players that have to live with our uninformed or I guess opinions, think about kind of unfair, and we all do it. I also get why they keep that information secret to protect the player on the ice from having the injury exposed.

 

[Absurdity]

He's going to have his best game of the playoffs tonight

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Apples to oranges comp there because DK was immensely talented but his attitude sucked. He didn’t care. It didn’t matter to him. Which is why he quit on the fans and his team. And why? Because playing for a coach that wanted more from him was too tough. McAvoy may have had a rough season by his own standards but he didn’t quit and walk away.

I know this is a McAvoy thread, but I can't help but respond.

Don't recall anyone ever saying Krejci had a bad attitude.

How did he quit on the team? He went home after his contract expired, like he always said he would. He was 35 years old.

He's going to have his best game of the playoffs tonight

That would be a beautiful thing.

 

[Crash Bandicoot]

I don't know why the bar for McAvoy is Bourque who was a vastly different player. McAvoy will never put up the offensive numbers Bourque did.

Also, comparing salaries using inflation as a metric is useless. Look at the NBA and MLB and compare the old greats to even relatively good players today. The leagues have changed, the salary cap structures have changed, the CBAs have changed.

Lastly, trading McAvoy away due to one bad seasons/post-season would be one of the dumbest possible moves this team could make. Bag of picks and top prospects from Montreal or Toronto? Please..... Whats next? Swayman to Edmonton for Draisatle or Pastrnak to Utah for their next 7 firsts.... Let's get serious here because this talk is bordering on the absurd.

I'm not down on McAvoy. He's right now, a good 2nd or 3rd defenceman along the lines of Lindholm, who, btw, earns 6 million a year. And yes, more teams are competing for top talent, and yes the CBA and wage inflation are different than currency devaluation. But, at 11.66% of cap space and being on the roster for 7+ years. There is a chance we have seen his ceiling there are indications the arch of his career is beginning its slow but downward slope.

If he can right his ship and become the elite, Norris Trophy "winning" defenceman he's being paid to be, then all is as right as rain in Bruins nation.

Have you seen the ticket prices at the garden for even behind-the-net nosebleed seats or the price of a hotdog and a beer there?

 

[chizzler]

Your perspective is why so many people lose money in the stock market—keeping underperforming stocks (even losses) where similar stocks in the same sector outperform.

It's a strategy not based on facts, but on hope. Hope is a poor strategy, not only because it fails 70% of the time, but because it ties up valuable capital that can be deployed in a superior asset, and participate in superior gains.

Now, you must excuse me; the Markets are open, and I need to polish some of my portfolios to capture gains and redeploy them into oversold sectors.

Analyst. Makes sense now.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Your perspective is why so many people lose money in the stock market—keeping underperforming stocks (even losses) where similar stocks in the same sector outperform.

It's a strategy not based on facts, but on hope. Hope is a poor strategy, not only because it fails 70% of the time, but because it ties up valuable capital that can be deployed in a superior asset, and participate in superior gains.

Now, you must excuse me; the Markets are open, and I need to polish some of my portfolios to capture gains and redeploy them into oversold sectors.

Looks like you're the stock man here.

As far as hockey goes, you're just a stockboy.

 

[Crash Bandicoot]

I don't know why the bar for McAvoy is Bourque who was a vastly different player. McAvoy will never put up the offensive numbers Bourque did.

Also, comparing salaries using inflation as a metric is useless. Look at the NBA and MLB and compare the old greats to even relatively good players today. The leagues have changed, the salary cap structures have changed, the CBAs have changed.

Lastly, trading McAvoy away due to one bad seasons/post-season would be one of the dumbest possible moves this team could make. Bag of picks and top prospects from Montreal or Toronto? Please..... Whats next? Swayman to Edmonton for Draisatle or Pastrnak to Utah for their next 7 firsts.... Let's get serious here because this talk is bordering on the absurd.



Stick to stocks

Anything that can be bought or sold is a tradable asset. An asset whose value is determined by a free and fair market. Is it wise to become enamored and create personal attachments to "things" other than yourself and your family?

Just saying.

Looks like you're the stock man here.

As far as hockey goes, you're just a stockboy.

No need for ad hominem attacks.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Anything that can be bought or sold is a tradable asset. An asset whose value is determined by a free and fair market. Is it wise to become enamored and create personal attachments to "things" other than yourself and your family?

Just saying.

No need for ad hominem attacks.

I wouldn't call it that.

Although comparing hockey players to stocks is about as ludicrous an analogy as I've seen used on these boards.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

Your perspective is why so many people lose money in the stock market—keeping underperforming stocks (even losses) where similar stocks in the same sector outperform.

It's a strategy not based on facts, but on hope. Hope is a poor strategy, not only because it fails 70% of the time, but because it ties up valuable capital that can be deployed in a superior asset, and participate in superior gains.

Now, you must excuse me; the Markets are open, and I need to polish some of my portfolios to capture gains and redeploy them into oversold sectors.

This is hot garbage. Respectfully.

 

[Bmessy]

2 poor playoffs is certainly grounds to question if he's really a bonafide #1 and the 9.5 might be a bit rough at some point. Still only 26 which is nice.
Other than that still glad he's on our team, but if your highest paid and best dman is getting waxxed in the playoffs consistently, then yes thats a concern
Would love if they had someone else to take over the PP QB because 1, he's not good at it, and 2, he could focus more on 5v5.

 

[LouJersey]

I watched Bourque's Bruins lose a hell of alot of series they were favored in, doesn't diminish his greatness IMO. Charlie is a horse. A stud. He's out there alot and he will make mistakes, happens. Seems like he is trying to do too much. You certainly don't throw the baby out with the bath water however.