Player Discussion Charlie Coyle - Part Deux

[Aussie Bruin]

This is 100% how I see it

Frederic I’m optimistic on but let’s see - the rest you summed up perfectly in my world

Thanks! I haven't given up on Frederic by any means. As a 3rd or 4th line center or perhaps even as a winger he could well end up having a decent NHL career. Maybe that's not ideal for a first-rounder but if he can consistently fill a bottom-6 role for a number of years and provide some physicality, be the guy who's breaking out pucks and creating space for others to score and add a little of his own production then I'll consider it a reasonable result. I'm just not sure yet whether he's going to find the consistency and smarts in his game to really hang at the top level, or if he'll always be just short. I'm hopeful though.

 

[wintersej]

Wild fans are completely open to reversing the trade. We know that you miss Donato!

it is a shame to hear. Donato clearly loves the game. Clearly has the faults you gave in the other post, but I hoped his shot and IQ could make him an Eberle quality player...not exactly the same game but that quality.

 

[Don Cherry]

Kids like Frederic and Studs are our future and they are kids we should keep and develop. I want Coyle signed long term even at an overpayment within reason.

 

[Jaguar God]

Any chance Coyle follows the rest of the team and takes a fair deal? Being a local boy must be plus.

 

[Don Cherry]

Any chance Coyle follows the rest of the team and takes a fair deal? Being a local boy must be plus.

Let's keep our fingers crossed!

 

[PlayMakers]

1. MARKET

Keven Hayes got 7.2 M and Coyle is a better 200 foot player

2. 5x5 & Overall Production

he projects mid 40’s (that lost goal in Montreal would help his projection by 4 points) but his 5x5 is solid

as used so far and as Heinen & Bjork evolve I see him as a 50+ player who drives a third line

He was big time in the playoffs

3. LEVERAGE

with Bergeron & Krejci’s ages, injuries, and Krejci contract you lose Coyle to FA you are looking at Jack Studnicka and Trent Frederic that close to your top 2 and 3 centers next season

CONTRACT

it he is amenable to s 10% hometown discount and thinks his value is $6 M starting which is reasonable considering what HAYES got~ that’s $5.4 M

I’m his agent I’m not going below that and I’m Sweeney/Gold I’m happily paying

Kevin Hayes averages about 9 more points per 82. He's also an established 2c, whereas Coyle is establishing himself as a 3c. I prefer Coyle but I'm not sure you can make the argument he's a better 200ft player: Hayes kills penalties regularly and has had seasons where he got 53, 57, 59% defensive zone starts.

I think an arbiter would say Hayes "should" make more than Coyle based on his body of work. (But $7m+ for Hayes was an embarrassingly bad contract to hand out, and hopefully they look at it as an outlier and not an apples to apples comp.)

 

[57special]

Coyle should fire his agent if he gets anything less than 7/40M. If he keeps his yearly AAV under 6M it will keep salary discipline on the team, and in 4-5 years or so that will become a very reasonable AAV.

 

[JOKER 192]

The Bruins are not paying 6M+ for a 3C. It's not happening.

I'm the same guy who told you McAvoy wasn't getting the ridiculous contract that many here were insisting he should get.

 

[BruinDust]

The Bruins are not paying 6M+ for a 3C. It's not happening.

I'm the same guy who told you McAvoy wasn't getting the ridiculous contract that many here were insisting he should get.

I'm not sure Sweeney and Co. look at Coyle as "just" a third line center. To me he's the 5th best forward on this team. They value strength up the middle, and both the guys ahead of him are or are approaching their mid-30s. I really don't know what his market value is or what he would be looking for. I don't think they'll overpay, but I think they'll make a really strong effort to get him extended.

 

[JOKER 192]

I'm not sure Sweeney and Co. look at Coyle as "just" a third line center. To me he's the 5th best forward on this team. They value strength up the middle, and both the guys ahead of him are or are approaching their mid-30s. I really don't know what his market value is or what he would be looking for. I don't think they'll overpay, but I think they'll make a really strong effort to get him extended.

I fully expect him to extend , or at least try to, but it'll be around the 5M AAV. The exception does not make the rule, Hayes is not worth his contract and never will be.

 

[HustleB]

Donny has gotten many goood deals. I will be surprised if he gets Coyle for less than 5.5×5. We need this guy and I would do 6×6 if needed.

 

[HumBucker]

Kids like Frederic and Studs are our future and they are kids we should keep and develop. I want Coyle signed long term even at an overpayment within reason.

Yes, but I think there will need to be a UFA 2C (at least) signing in there somewhere to fill the gap until the kids can step in to those shoes. That is, if the B's wish to be consistent contenders.

 

[BruinDust]

I fully expect him to extend , or at least try to, but it'll be around the 5M AAV. The exception does not make the rule, Hayes is not worth his contract and never will be.

Yeah I agree, I thought the Hayes contract was awful.

 

[thestonedkoala]

What the hell happened to Ryan Donato? I am reading articles on him, and a) they keep mentioning he would be a good center (which then was disputed by every Boston fan saying he would never work out at center) and b) he was a star in the making. Sweeney was really, really high on him. But his slide started before last season. So, what happened to his game that he went from Olympic competitor to barely a 4th liner? He can't play defense and struggles to read the game.

 

[Tmac37]

How big is this trade right now with how much Bergeron and Krejci have been out.

 

[jgatie]

What the hell happened to Ryan Donato? I am reading articles on him, and a) they keep mentioning he would be a good center (which then was disputed by every Boston fan saying he would never work out at center) and b) he was a star in the making. Sweeney was really, really high on him. But his slide started before last season. So, what happened to his game that he went from Olympic competitor to barely a 4th liner? He can't play defense and struggles to read the game.

A Minny newspaper said the "try him at center" thing was a favor from Boudreau after a phone call from Teddy D (a disturbing trend that started in Boston).

As to Ryan, he's your typical 2nd round talent that can no longer get by on just his skills, yet refuses to develop other aspects of his game because he's never had to do it before. The league is littered with these types; just on the Bruins - Spooner, Koko, any of the Cams, etc. Contrast this with high 1st/low 2nd round guys who change their game - get some grit, battle on the boards, kill penalties, develop a 200 foot game, etc. - Nordstrom, Paille, Lindholm, Kuraly, even Heinen and Bjork give an effort on D.

 

[PlayMakers]

What the hell happened to Ryan Donato? I am reading articles on him, and a) they keep mentioning he would be a good center (which then was disputed by every Boston fan saying he would never work out at center) and b) he was a star in the making. Sweeney was really, really high on him. But his slide started before last season. So, what happened to his game that he went from Olympic competitor to barely a 4th liner? He can't play defense and struggles to read the game.

Just my $.02 but I think the kid could use a slice of humble pie. He has flaws, he needs to acknowledge them and work on them. He's not strong on his skates and is easily knocked off the puck in the corners, he occasionally stumbles and falls for no reason, a la Steve Heinze. When these things were brought up to Donato last year when he was with the Bruins an article in the Globe came out a week later quoting him as saying "I know I'm strong on my feet... I've always been strong on my feet... I know I'm an NHL player..." Shortly after, he was traded.

The kid has elite skills, IMO. His hands, his creativity, his shot, even his passing, it's all high-end, but he's not big, he's not strong on his skates and I think that's between the ears.

 

[57special]

Boudreau's boss, the since fired Fenton, was behind the "play Donato" order. To be fair to Ryan, he produced last year.This year he hasn't, and the flaws I see in his game are nothing to do with ego. He just doesn't have NHL talent. Nice shot, but if you can't get to a scoring area because of a lack of speed and strength then what good is that?

As soon as Foligno gets back from injury he will be back on the bench, and would be sent down to the AHL if he wasn't waiver eligible. I can think of a couple of players on the AHL team who i'd rather see than Donato.

I mean Charlie can be infuriating because he has SO many legit NHL tools, and can't always deliver them in game, but, hell, MN should've gotten Frederic along with Donato in a proper deal.

Calling a 6/35M, or a 7/40M deal. Hayes isn't the only one who has gotten big money recently. You can't compare Macavoy(RFA) to Coyle(UFA). The 3.2M AAV long term deal that Coyle signed was HIS RFA deal. Overall, most realistic people here are saying somewhere in the 5+M range. Keeping it under 6M would be very good optics for the team(when it comes to paying others). Under 5M would be underpayment, and raise eyebrows. It's one thing to be frugal, another to be perceived as a GM who won't reward his players for good service.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

regarding Donato, it was pretty telling that he didn't even get PP time against the Bruins the other night. His skillset really lends itself to the PP so if he can't be useful there then he's not gonna be useful anywhere else.

I still find it funny that he trashed the Bruins coaching staff on his way out the door and now finds himself in the same position with the coaching staff that he implied was a better fit for him after the trade.

 

[jgatie]

regarding Donato, it was pretty telling that he didn't even get PP time against the Bruins the other night. His skillset really lends itself to the PP so if he can't be useful there then he's not gonna be useful anywhere else.

I still find it funny that he trashed the Bruins coaching staff on his way out the door and now finds himself in the same position with the coaching staff that he implied was a better fit for him after the trade.

Shades of Ryan Spooner, another kid who just didn't get it.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

The Bruins are not paying 6M+ for a 3C. It's not happening.

I'm the same guy who told you McAvoy wasn't getting the ridiculous contract that many here were insisting he should get.

they signed a 32-year old David Backes to a $6m cap hit for the express purpose of having him be their 3rd line C behind 37 and 46 (and being able to play RW in a pinch). Coyle is younger and gives them exactly what they hoped Backes would give them at that price. They would absolutely give him that money, especially with Bergeron & Krejci now being 3 years older and Bergeron especially starting to show his mileage.

 

[thestonedkoala]

I still find it funny that he trashed the Bruins coaching staff on his way out the door and now finds himself in the same position with the coaching staff that he implied was a better fit for him after the trade.

I haven't heard that.

 

[JOKER 192]

they signed a 32-year old David Backes to a $6m cap hit for the express purpose of having him be their 3rd line C behind 37 and 46 (and being able to play RW in a pinch). Coyle is younger and gives them exactly what they hoped Backes would give them at that price. They would absolutely give him that money, especially with Bergeron & Krejci now being 3 years older and Bergeron especially starting to show his mileage.

Backes played very little 3C . He was used mostly as a 2RW. I still don't think Coyle will get the 6+ that is being proposed on here.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

Backes played very little 3C . He was used mostly as a 2RW. I still don't think Coyle will get the 6+ that is being proposed on here.

the day Backes was signed he talked to the press about how Sweeney & Co. had spelled out their plans for him to primarily be the 3C.

That's not how it worked out probably because Claude quickly realized he didn't have the wheels to backcheck in his system and they also had limited winger options when guys like Jimmy Hayes & Matt Beleskey fell flat. But the point is that Backes was given that contract with the intention of him being their long term 3C.

 

[JOKER 192]

the day Backes was signed he talked to the press about how Sweeney & Co. had spelled out their plans for him to primarily be the 3C.

That's not how it worked out probably because Claude quickly realized he didn't have the wheels to backcheck in his system and they also had limited winger options when guys like Jimmy Hayes & Matt Beleskey fell flat. But the point is that Backes was given that contract with the intention of him being their long term 3C.

That's what the told you and you believed dit.